Suggestions for a SF D3 rebuild??

[vtxrecruiter]

Hello, I have a few questions for you light gurus on CPF.
I am an in the Army, a combat vet, and have started a side business while on recruiting duty. I am training civilians to shoot at an academy that I started.
I have an old Surefire D3 light that is way out of date, but it has sentimental value (used in on my M-4 (sans pocket clip) in BAAADD places before better lights were available) and I want to rebuild it with a bright, tight LED and rechargeable battteries.
SO- my plan is to use the Sku# 11836 Cree R2 from DealExtreme with 2 17500 batteries (protected) and basically leave it mostly stock. I DO NOT believe in pressure pads as they FAIL and/or ACCIDENTLY give you away when some idiot private reflexively squeezes the pad (ask me how I know this). I will use my old 1" QD ring, and probably stay away from the clicky ( I have reliabilty trust issues) switches.
Does this seem like a good setup, or is there a better way to go?
I spent 17 years shooting guys and breaking stuff, and can't seem to get my noggin to do the milliamp/current/techno stuff. Will 2 17500's be enough, and will I get decent runtime?

I also have a Fenix Tk11 that is on my SBR, but the D3 will be on my M&P 15. Both guns will be used to train civilian shooters at my academy, I need reliability and brightness, but these are not on in-country combat rifles. They will mostly be used to do CQB and short to medium range night shooting classes.
Any help is MUCHO appreciated. Thanks hooah.

 

[vtxrecruiter]

:whistle: Anyone?

 

[vtxrecruiter]

Any Advice?

I posted a question on the LED Flashlight forum on a Surefire D3 rebuild, no replies. Should I have put it here?
Anyway, here is the link: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=262628
Any advice is appreciated.

 

[DM51]

Re: Any Advice?

Your thread would have been better in Homemade & Modified, so I'll move it there. I'll also merge it with this one, since pointers are not allowed.

 

[Kestrel]

My favorite light (SureFire C3) houses a high-output LED module and 2x17500 AW protected LiIon rechargeables - I've been using it in this way for over a year. I would very much recommend a ~240 lumen Malkoff M60 (or better yet, the ~280 lumen M61 if you can wait a month or so) over the inexpensive LED drop-ins. Lots of military / LEO folks around here run Malkoff units exclusively - they are very very solid. They are also considerably more expensive ($60) but well-worth it IMO. The Malkoff drop-ins have a very devoted following on CPF.

(BTW I had one 'cheapie' LED drop-in once - it came with a light. The drop-in rolled off my countertop, and the driver board popped out of the unit, trailing copper wire. Compare that to the Malkoffs, which a number of people here use in their weapon lights - I very much doubt that there is a more durable LED drop-in)

Runtime for the M60 is ~1h 45 minutes on 2x17500, which I have found to be quite adequate. I would recommend AW protected 17500's, as they are also regarded as being of very high quality.

I always thought the SF D3's looked very nice, better & more practical than the comparable 9P. Please post pics when you can, we always like looking at well-used lights.

 

[vtxrecruiter]

Cool, thanks a bunch for the advice, I will look at the Malkoff units tonight. Do you think that I need to do some auxillary heat sinking i.e. copper tape, and do the D3's have acrylic lenses (and if so should I get a glass one)?
I LOVE this old war horse. In it's day it was the KING DADDY for brightness in a small size. I used to run it with a 1" Q.D. Leupold scope ring on a piece of picatinny rail that I attached to my handguards. (this was before the cool rail h.g.'s that we have today) The only fly in the ointment was that it was a battery guzzler and I had to keep getting my mom to send me batteries. It really lit up the night campered to the 6P's my soldiers carried. But compared to today's LED's it is a little sad...
I will post pics of it soon, and if anyone is interested I will post my Sig 556 SBR and my M&P 15T. I also want to upgrade my Glock light to LED, but after a LOT of searching, I think that this is a NO GO... I have it mounted on a 17 RTF that has custom texturing on the gripframe and a custom molded Kydex holster from SharkTac... If it kills, I slap a light on it. I am trying to find a way to mount my Fexix PD 20 to my .45...:devil:

 

[Kestrel]

Additional heat sinking is not necessary in your host - the Malkoffs are built with the best heat sink in the business - SureFire never could touch Malkoff for LED module output because of the Malkoff patent on this, from what I've read here.

If your D3 has the acrylic (lexan) lens, I wouldn't worry about it. Theoretically less light transmission (not noticible), but it is pretty much unbreakable. Some folks worry if the lens is all scratched up but I carry a very old SF E1 (w/ the lexan lens) and a scratch or two doesn't bother me.

A prized light is better than a new one - upgrade that guy to the latest tech and use it with pride. If I had started my SF addiction with a D3, it would still be my favorite light.

Regarding pics, yes please post them here, I'd like to see it. There is another thread about well-used lights called 'Show your beat up light' which you might like. And also, there is a photo thread about 'Flashlights, pistols, and blades' which sounds like it might be right up your alley.

It's always good to have another 'SureFire upgrader' around here - lights such as yours are my faves because it is so easy to upgrade them to the latest tech. I'll be carrying & using my 6P and C3 with the latest LEDs when my newer but eventually outdated SF L1 is gathering dust. :thumbsup:

Edit: Oh, and you'll need a LiIon charger for those AW 17500's. Check out the Pila IBC, it's a little more expensive (~$50 vs ~$20 or so) but it is also well-regarded as the least-expensive quality charger. I've read a large number of reports here of questionable or down-right dangerous charging conditions from the cheapie chargers - the worst cases being extremely rare cell explosions and even one report of a burned-down garage. From what I read, the Pila IBC is a good entry-level charger and I have been happy with mine. Just remember that nothing is perfectly safe and that LiIons in particular can contain extremely high levels of stored energy - treat them with respect, there is a reason that you don't see them for individual sale in every corner electronics store. I learned a lot from Mdocod's two LiIon battery threads and can send links to them if you're interested.

Hope this helps,
K

 

[tx101]

I think Surefire have an upgrade kit that replaces the Lexan lens
with a Pyrex or glass lens

BTW +1 on the Malkoff :thumbsup:

 

[Justin Case]

This isn't the answer you want, but I wouldn't use the D3 as a weaponlight.

If you prize reliability over all else, then I think a non-weaponlight like the D3 is the wrong light to put on a gun. True an AR is quite light in recoil and probably won't cause problems. Probably.

The potential problem is that a handheld light like the D3 doesn't have the battery retaining rim machined in the neck to hold the batteries back under recoil, unlike a real SureFire weaponlight. This rim prevents the batteries from slamming forward, with potential damage to the lamp assembly and-or the batteries themselves (I've seen battered battery nipples).

Since you are also looking at 2x17500, if you select protected cells, then you also have another potential failure point of the protection circuit located on the base of each cell that is getting pounded.

If I wanted to use a handheld as a weaponlight, I'd use a FiveMega 1x18650 host body, Z44 bezel (or an old-style 6P Lexan windowed bezel), Malkoff M60, and 1xIMR18650 (no protection circuit) or 1xAW18650. You don't need the high discharge current capability of the IMR, but I selected it because it is a known high quality, unprotected cell. Because the FiveMega body has a battery retaining rim, I also selected an AW18650 protected cell for the longer run time.

Using a single cell helps to avoid cell-cell battering. The only things bearing against the cell are a spring at the top and a spring at the bottom, and the cell itself is constrained from forward movement by the retaining rim at the top and the spring pressure at the bottom.

 

[Kestrel]

+1, good advice, I'd listen to that ↑ dude too. ;)
Edit: If you really wanted to stay with SureFire bodies but obtain the 'retaining lip' referred to above, get a SF 6P (for example) and get it bored slightly so it can accept 18mm cells. A forward lip will remain after the boring process and will retain the 18650 in the same manner as above. The 6P body will still be more than strong enough after boring. I will post a few photos of my setup with regards to this in a bit.

 

[FredericoFreire]

+1 for the Malkoff. This is the only way to go. Just my $0.02.

 

[Kestrel]

Here's a few photos of my 6P bored for an 18650:

It's a little difficult to see the lip but it stops the cell from coming out the front end of the body and impinging on the drop-in as JC described above.

 

[vtxrecruiter]

Cool, thanks for all the info. Does the Surefire 870 integrated light/forearm have this ring inside it? I can use my old one for a measurement if it does. (I got out of the 870 business and got into the 1100 business instead)
That also brings me to another question. Other than the Surefire integrated forearm (which I am not too keen on) what is a good setup for my 1100? I want less throw and more spill (CQB after all) and it has to have easy to use features such as NO tape or pressure switches, and light weight. The current trend in the Army and with a lot of PSD guys is DUAL E2D's on their rifles, but not much in the shotgun world has changed re: lights.
I also posted a new thread called Flashlights and Fightin' Iron with the Pistols Lights and Blades thread, shows a few of my toys...