Sunwayman V10R XM-L. at last... just ordered one!

hydroeon

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Greetings fellow cpf-ers :)

I'm a newbie when it comes to flash lights so excuse me if this is a silly question:

Isn't the whole point of purchasing this light i.e. with an XM-L LED, so that one could slap on a RCR123A 3.7V battery and safely enjoy a 219% increase in the amount of light coming out of the flash light?

I've just received a Sunwayman V10R Ti which is rated at 210 lumens. The new XM-L version is much cheaper and is rated at 160 lumens but states that it will punch out 460 with the battery above!

So, will it really be more than twice as powerful? and shouldn't the throw distance be much better too (ceteris paribus)? :confused:
 

Jrubin

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Greetings fellow cpf-ers :)

I'm a newbie when it comes to flash lights so excuse me if this is a silly question:

Isn't the whole point of purchasing this light i.e. with an XM-L LED, so that one could slap on a RCR123A 3.7V battery and safely enjoy a 219% increase in the amount of light coming out of the flash light?

I've just received a Sunwayman V10R Ti which is rated at 210 lumens. The new XM-L version is much cheaper and is rated at 160 lumens but states that it will punch out 460 with the battery above!

So, will it really be more than twice as powerful? and shouldn't the throw distance be much better too (ceteris paribus)? :confused:

Well for me i "read" that if you use LI-ION batteries you would lose the really low output, the main thing i use is the super low, (its lower than my thrunite Ti) then med light level after that. so i dont miss the 460 OTF lumens at all. just my opinion though
 

Fireclaw18

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I use li-ion 16340 batteries in my V10r XML and the super-low works fine. With the brightness set to its lowest setting this light is dimmer than the lowest low on my Thrunite 1C, and my Zebralight SC600 and SC80.

At max, it's very bright as expected. The V10r's beam is noticeably ringy, with a wide dark ring near the edge of the spill. In contrast, the SC600 has no rings at all.
 

hydroeon

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Well for me i "read" that if you use LI-ION batteries you would lose the really low output, the main thing i use is the super low, (its lower than my thrunite Ti) then med light level after that. so i dont miss the 460 OTF lumens at all. just my opinion though

Ah but if you crank it up to 460 lumens (which is automatic on the new V10R-T6 with a RCR123A battery?), is it actually 200%+ more powerful? I mean will there be much more illumination and distance?

My main use for these lights are pretty unusual e.g. lantern alternative, mountain emergencies, power cuts etc

I need a flash light that is as small as possible that fits in the pocket and whacks out a crazy amount of light. So far this 460 lumen one is the most powerful I've seen (that one could actually buy) but I need to make sure it really is more than twice as powerful than the V10R Ti which I have. It says on the new box "Max: 160 lumens" but description says 460 lumens with RCR123A... sounds like a huge difference. Can't figure out if it's marketing mumbo jumbo or really amazingly powerful :duh2:
 

peterharvey73

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Isn't the whole point of purchasing this light i.e. with an XM-L LED, so that one could slap on a RCR123A 3.7V battery and safely enjoy a 219% increase in the amount of light coming out of the flash light?

I've just received a Sunwayman V10R Ti which is rated at 210 lumens. The new XM-L version is much cheaper and is rated at 160 lumens but states that it will punch out 460 with the battery above!

So, will it really be more than twice as powerful? and shouldn't the throw distance be much better too (ceteris paribus)? :confused:

I have both the XP-G R5 and the new XM-L T6 models.
On a disposable CR123 which only delivers 3.0 volts, both R5 and T6 output just 160 lumens.
On a rechargeable 16340 which is normally 3.7 volts, the R5 will output 210 lumens, while the T6 will output 460 lumens.

The R5 has a claimed 130 meters of throw.
The T6 has a claimed 130 meters of throw too, but I suspect my T6 throws a little less than my R5; there may be a misprint - I will check for you.

Interestingly, the V10R also comes in Anniversary Edition XM-L T5 bin @ 408 lumens 115 meters [see BigMac_79's review thread], and TI2 XM-L U2 bin @ 500 lumens and 130 meters of throw.
The difference between the three bins T5, T6 and the latest U2, is supposed to be about an extra 7% efficiency and output with each bin.

"So, will it really be more than twice as powerful? and shouldn't the throw distance be much better too"?
Tough to answer.
The XM-L's have more total volume output, so have more quantity of light, but not necessarily more throw.
The old XP-G R5 has a smaller, but more intense hotspot, so it throws further @ 130 meters.
The XM-L's generally have a larger, but less intense hotpspot, so it throws shorter.
There are actually three different sub-versions of the XM-L: T5 has 408 lumens, T6 460 lumens, and the latest U2 500 lumens.
There is roughly a 7% gain in efficiency, output and brightness with each sub-model called a "bin".
The T5 throws some 115 meters.
T6 probably in between at 122.5 meters.
Then U2 at 130 meters.
Thus, the latest U2 bin finally manages to catch up to the old R5 in hotspot intensity/brightness and throw, keeping in mind that the U2 delivers a ton of width with a much wider hotspot, a wider corona secondary band of light, and a brighter lateral spill.
Confused you???


At max, it's very bright as expected. The V10r's beam is noticeably ringy, with a wide dark ring near the edge of the spill. In contrast, the SC600 has no rings at all.

I'm like you, I have both SC600 and pocket sized V10R too.
If you look at the two reflectors, you will notice that the SC600 is MOP Medium Orange Peel.
While the V10R's is LOP Light Orange Peel.
The MOP diffuses the light more, to deliver a cleaner, and less ringy beam; and all this generally comes at the expense of throw, thus despite its huge 750 lumen OTF output and the bigger 30mm diameter bezel, the SC600 only throws only 145 meters ANSI standards, while many other similarly sized 1x18650 powered lights throw much further than this.
Meanwhile, the V10R XM-L on a 16340 3.7 volt battery outputs 460 lumens, with a tiny bezel diameter of just 23mm, but on LOP reflector, it already manages to throw a claimed 130 meters ANSI; the actual throw of this model has not been independently tested by a reputable body like Selfbuilt...
 

Jrubin

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I use li-ion 16340 batteries in my V10r XML and the super-low works fine. With the brightness set to its lowest setting this light is dimmer than the lowest low on my Thrunite 1C, and my Zebralight SC600 and SC80.

At max, it's very bright as expected. The V10r's beam is noticeably ringy, with a wide dark ring near the edge of the spill. In contrast, the SC600 has no rings at all.

Thanks for the heads up, i will check it out
 

hydroeon

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VERY impressed with the quality of information provided by peterharvey73. Thank you!

I'm just confused about the battery thingy i.e. the best AW RCR123A is 650mah at 3.7v thus 2405mah total powA; a regular surefire 3v 1500mah is 4500mah thus would last 87% longer than the supposedly more powerful rechargeable ones. What gives!? I get the extra 0.7v resulting in a slightly brighter output but certainly not 287%!!! (460/160 lumens)

There must be something I'm not getting here. Hopefully somebody here can enlighten me regarding this anomaly :)
 

peterharvey73

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Ok, typical disposable primary batteries are 3.0 volts and 1500 mAH capacity, but the slowest discharge rate [I don't know the exact figures here, but it's the slowest discharge rate].
An AW rechargeable RCR chemistry 16340 battery is 3.7 volts but only 750 mAH capacity, and a discharge rate in between of 1.5 amps.
An AW rechargeable IMR chemistry 16340 battery is 3.7 volts but only 550 mAH capacity, however is has the fastest discharge rate of all three @ 4.0 amps!

The electronic mathematics of flashlights is complex, I can't tell you exactly why, but both the higher voltage, and the faster discharge rate of the battery, which in turn can deliver a higher amperage , is required to yield those outputs of V10R XM-L Anniversary Edition T5 408 lumens, T6 460 lumens, and Ti2 Limited Edition U2 bin 500 lumens respectively.

Yes, the primary disposable with 1500 mAH will have the longest run time; the IMR 16340 with 550 mAH will be the shortest in run time...
 

aau007

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I will try to explain in more English terms about voltage and discharge rate.

In simplest form, it is about which battery can deliver the highest wattage.

Slow discharge batteries have higher internal resistance. Under high current drain, the voltage drops significantly without being able to discharge any faster. For example, with a slow discharge rcr123a, when the light tries to draw 2A, the battery may only discharge at 1.5A and the voltage may drop to below 3.5V. Total VA available to the light is 3.5V x 1.5A. With a high discharge rcr123a, if the battery can deliver the 2A current and still be able to maintain at least 3.8V, now your total VA to the light is 3.8V x 2A. Better batteries compare themselves at what voltage the batteries can maintain at certain current draw for how long. This 3 variables equation makes comparing batteries sometimes very complicated.
 

peterharvey73

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Yes.

P = VI
Power (Watts) = Voltage (Volts) x Current (Amps)

The higher the voltage, combined with the higher the current [controlled by the V10R's magnetic ring & electronic circuit, and the battery's maximum capable discharge rate] - then the higher the wattage power; for more output in lumens.

And the higher the output lumens per square millimeter of emitter die size, the greater the surface brightness.
This, combined with reflector diameter & relative depth size and quality factors like surface texture etc, will determine the final longitudinal throw and lateral spill of the V10R's...
 
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Cunha

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On ring adjustable lights like the V10R is there any possibility of a drop in XML U2 for already existing XPG models?
 

iron potato

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Well, judging from the opinions over here, I guess my current purchase of V10A XM-L which will be pairing with AW14500, is a good choice for me, cuz needed most is floody beam lovecpf
 

kkeyser

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Well, judging from the opinions over here, I guess my current purchase of V10A XM-L which will be pairing with AW14500, is a good choice for me, cuz needed most is floody beam lovecpf

I have only recently had my v10a with xml, and I am just blown away. I haven't been impressed with a single aa light since the old nitecore d10. I had a rrt0 r5 that looks awesome and is a nice light, but I still liked the d10. I can forget about the d10 now. The sunwayman v10a xml is simply amazing. Not sure how reliable they are, but I have had to send back every nitecore I've had as well as the aforementioned rrt0 because of issues within the first week of ownership. I've yet to notice any issues with the v10a.

One other thing, the v10a is a very nice light with eneloops, but you put in the 14500 and it is awesome. It certainly has throw because it is so bright, but it is a wall of light. It is comparable to my jetbeam pa40 in output. Unbelievable how cool it is!

And no disco!!!
 

hydroeon

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Since the battery topic is important for this specific light I was very happy when peterharvey73 et al explained the battery part. This specific light changes completely i.e. 287% more performance when a RCR123A battery is fitted and this is unique to the feature of the new V10R light. Surely, then, the batteries should be discussed in terms of their affect for this light e.g. since the original spec of this flashlight doesn't say anything about the 460lumen feature, we are left to guess such things as: what is the REAL performance at 460 lumens with e.g. an AW battery. In the scheme of things, I would certainly like to bring back the battery topic in terms of the light's spec. What I mean is this: IF the battery is capable of 460 lumens only when an AW RCR123A battery is used then what is the actual time that this light will run for at full capacity (e.g. 20 minutes? 35,000 potentially in total hours?) IF my estimates are accurate then, surely a question of alternative solutions would come up in the minds of other readers too. Surely I'm not the only one thinking: 'so, like, is there really no way of somehow adapting the light to take a 18650 battery?'

I apologise if I'm a at odds here, just seams to me like such factors are very important and relevant to this particular flash light :shrug:
 

kkeyser

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I apologise if I'm a at odds here, just seams to me like such factors are very important and relevant to this particular flash light :shrug:

I think the battery part on these flashlights is very relevant as well. I wish the battery thing was easier to follow, but I feel I just get bombarded with graphs and whatnot in the battery forum. I just want name brands, solutions, things to watch out for, etc. Keep it simple, I don't want a degree in battery-ology.
 

peterharvey73

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Hydroeon & Kkeysor, your questions on batteries for the V10R XM-L are cool; very intelligent in fact.
The battery type and its effect on the V10R's performance confuses many people.

The information provided on the Sunwayman V10R web page is rather insufficient; there is actually no information on the limited Anniversary Edition XM-L T5 408 lumens, nor the mass produced XM-L T6 460 lumens version.
There is only information on the Ti2 Limited Edition XM-L U2 bin with 500 lumens.

Hopefully the explanation [provided above] on battery voltage, battery internal resistance, and the battery's maximum discharge rate, and the resulting electric current measured in amperes [described above] helps you to understand why the V10R on a disposable CR123 delivers only 160 lumens, while on a rechargeable AW 16340 Protected, it delivers 408/460/500 lumens!
P = VI, so both voltage and current is required to produce power.

The V10R Ti2 XM-L U3 bin version is said to run for some 1.5 hours on a primary disposable CR123.
Unfortunately, Sunway does not provide any run times on rechargeables, and presently I don't know of any aftermarket independent tests/reviews on this particular model of flashlight.
However, your guess of 20 minutes is a good guess.
My V10R XP-G R5 is recharged about once a week.
My V10R XM-L T6 is recharged about twice as often?
An AW 16340 3.7v 750 mAH Protected obviously doesn't have much milli-amp hour capacity nor run time.
This is how I get around it - below; I just carry a spare.
It's up to you - when my friend Jon saw this picture - he said no immediately...


IMG_1284.jpg
 
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peterharvey73

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On primary batteries, the graph curve falls progressively so that the V10R's brightness falls as the battery gets flat - giving plenty of warning.
However, on rechargeables the V10R gets flat pretty suddenly, without prior warning.
Thus, I carry a spare AW 16340 in a CR123 key ring case, but like I say, my friend Jon doesn't like it at all...:shrug:
 

NoFair

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Both my xp-g and xm-l V10R pull 2A from a IMR li-ion cell. Haven't tested a normal AW 16340, but at 2A IMRs are better (about 4C current draw) A 14500 IMR is better at this current draw so a V10A on 14500 should do better.
 

iron potato

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Both my xp-g and xm-l V10R pull 2A from a IMR li-ion cell. Haven't tested a normal AW 16340, but at 2A IMRs are better (about 4C current draw) A 14500 IMR is better at this current draw so a V10A on 14500 should do better.

Thanks for the information mate, I cant wait to get my first ever SWM V10A XM-L torch... the wait is killing me :devil:
 

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