Surefire G2 & Dereelight
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taschenlampe
Enlightened
Because of its poor heat dissipation the plastic G2 is an inappropriate host
for high-output LED Drop-Ins.
tl
for high-output LED Drop-Ins.
tl
HunkaBurninLove
Newly Enlightened
Another question would be "how long do you plan to run the light/LED module"?
Malkoff M60 (a CPF favorite) needs to be less than 15 minutes.
Malkoff M60 (a CPF favorite) needs to be less than 15 minutes.
I have three G2´s with three different Dereelight drop-ins:
- 3.7-4.2v (current draw 1.2A) has the best output and flat regulation in metallic body light, but in G2 there is "little" loss in output due to plastic, so in longer runtimes like more than 5-10 min continious, you don´t gain that much from high output.
- 3.7-6v module. Current draw 1A. Because of wider voltage range and heat, you get little less output (than 3.7v module) and not-so-flat-regulation with 3.7v li-ion, but i consider this is best option if you looking for output and runtime.
I´ll get ~3 hours with 17670.
- 3.7-6v module. Current draw 0.5A. This is what i prefer instead of floody P60L. 3 hours of flat regulation output with 17670.
Current draw is same or little more than P60L have, but thanks to Deree´s (and Malkoff´s of course) for using "module base to flashlight body" -heat conduction and therefore this option has really flat regulation and output.
EDIT: Dereelight modules, as well P60L has some kind of thermal sensor what drops output (=by slowing amp rate?) when there is too much heat in modules, so i have found this safer to run longer for the price of little less output.
I have tested all these and P60L in G2 with metal AND plastic head so in my observations there is no help from metal bezel when using these kind of heat conductions.
In P60L there is ~25% drop of output when using full plastic G2 and i measured that metal head helps "only" 10%, so output drops ~15% in metalhead G2. What happens when you use upcoming P61L in plastic light, which has 2-3 more current draw and much more heat..
Measures made in my own lightbox so they are ultra-scientic, not visual
Personally i prefer throw what Dereelight gives nicely even with lower output. Hotspot is bright, spillbeam is bright too, but not so wide than P60L does, so more light is focused to hotspot.
It is true that G2 is not the best host for led-modules, but i love G2 with different colors so i have to make my compromises between love and heat dissipation
Hope you and others find this informative.:thumbsup:
EDIT:
- 3.7-4.2v (current draw 1.2A) has the best output and flat regulation in metallic body light, but in G2 there is "little" loss in output due to plastic, so in longer runtimes like more than 5-10 min continious, you don´t gain that much from high output.
- 3.7-6v module. Current draw 1A. Because of wider voltage range and heat, you get little less output (than 3.7v module) and not-so-flat-regulation with 3.7v li-ion, but i consider this is best option if you looking for output and runtime.
I´ll get ~3 hours with 17670.
- 3.7-6v module. Current draw 0.5A. This is what i prefer instead of floody P60L. 3 hours of flat regulation output with 17670.
Current draw is same or little more than P60L have, but thanks to Deree´s (and Malkoff´s of course) for using "module base to flashlight body" -heat conduction and therefore this option has really flat regulation and output.
EDIT: Dereelight modules, as well P60L has some kind of thermal sensor what drops output (=by slowing amp rate?) when there is too much heat in modules, so i have found this safer to run longer for the price of little less output.
I have tested all these and P60L in G2 with metal AND plastic head so in my observations there is no help from metal bezel when using these kind of heat conductions.
In P60L there is ~25% drop of output when using full plastic G2 and i measured that metal head helps "only" 10%, so output drops ~15% in metalhead G2. What happens when you use upcoming P61L in plastic light, which has 2-3 more current draw and much more heat..
Measures made in my own lightbox so they are ultra-scientic, not visual
Personally i prefer throw what Dereelight gives nicely even with lower output. Hotspot is bright, spillbeam is bright too, but not so wide than P60L does, so more light is focused to hotspot.
It is true that G2 is not the best host for led-modules, but i love G2 with different colors so i have to make my compromises between love and heat dissipation
Hope you and others find this informative.:thumbsup:
EDIT:
Lumens and luxes are just tools of marketing and sales people. And nothing else.
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I only plan on using it for short bursts. This will be a home defense light so I need maximum lumens to blind. I doubt it would be run for more then a minute or two at a time.
WadeF
Flashlight Enthusiast
Dereelight pills have thermal sensors? This is the first I'm hearing this. If your Dereelight pills are dropping in output it is probably because they are getting too hot. I wouldn't run a Dereelight 1.2A pill in a plastic G2 head as they will heat up faster than a M60 and have less material to absorb the heat than a M60.
They are getting too hot and thermal sensor drops output by slowing amp rate, right?
I have tested Dereelight modules 3.7v-4.2v (1.2A), 3.7v-6v (1A) and 3.7v-6v (custom-made 0.4-0.5A) in Dereelight own host and 6P and G2 with both plastic and metal head.
Lights are powered by 1 li-ion or 2xCR123 (except max 4.2v module).
Tests are done in room temperature (20c), in refrigerator and in both conditions when flashlight body is covered by icecubes
Everytime there is more or less output dropping when changing from metal to plastic host, except 0.5A module, so i´d safely say there is some thermal regulation in Dereelight modules to prevent overheating.
I wouldn´t either because of output dropping i don´t gain anymore output than with 6v module, except for real cold enviroments :laughing:
I mainly use 17670.
If this will be your purpose of use forever, i think it´s okay to run high amp rate module in G2. But sometimes when you got good and bright light you want to run and use it little longer..
This is first stage of disease called "flashaholism.."
BTW, do we have any tested info how Malkoff´s M60 or other modules perform when running with single li-ion?
EDIT: I found this: "AW 1600 mah 17670 + SF C2 + M60 ran for 3 hours before I shut it off - it was very dim at that point. At the one hour mark I pulled the cell and measured the voltage - 3.78 volts. Roughly 1 hour of regulated output and 2 hours of declining output."
It looks very promising, but i´d like to see some % measurements at what level output stays during time.
It says:
"The input voltage is 3.8 - 9 volts. Below 3.8 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive."
But i doubt that single li-ion will give same output and regulation than 6v and up..
Almost every light or module seems to be more or less problems getting flat-regulated output with single li-ion, but i will start sometime a new topic for that specific matter.
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WadeF
Flashlight Enthusiast
As far as I know the Dereelight pills have no thermal protection circuit. I think what you are experiencing is you are seriously over heating your Dereelight pills by improperly using them in a plastic head, resulting in potential damage to the pill. As the LED heads up it naturally draws less current. This isn't thermal protection, it's the LED getting too hot which isn't good for it.
Good to know, thanks.
I am of course aware of heat problems, but after my tests i found that in Dereelight modules where (only) pill makes contact directly to the body, plastic head (bezel) doesn´t make any better or worse.
This maybe different in Malkoffs where whole module is actually big heat conductive part also to the head, right?
And direct contact to the body is always better than contact with large spring.
I will however continue use my Dereelight modules normally. Time will tell what happens.. I may consider purchasing Malkoff module if they perform good enough with single li-ion.
You may know if they use any "advanced" optics than regular reflector?
EDIT: WafeF, i already read about some of your comments about M60..:thumbsup:
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WadeF
Flashlight Enthusiast
Jauno, are you using the Dereelight pills in a plastic G2 body with plastic head? I'm not sure where it would be contacting enough metal to properly heat sink it.
SCEMan
Flashlight Enthusiast
My solution to the G2 Nitrolon head problem is solved by using an McE2S two stage switch with 30 ohm resistor. I've used this with both M60 and R2 dropins and it's the perfect setup for me. I have adequate light at the low setting and can switch to full power for 10 mins or so as needed w/no damage to the LED.
I really like the all-Nitrolon G2 for its feel, especially in cold weather.
I really like the all-Nitrolon G2 for its feel, especially in cold weather.
[email protected]
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 31
You may be restricting your search too narrowly. An Aurora P7 or similar from one of the Chinese shippers will be less expensive and literally 4X brighter than either of the lights you're considering.
Build quality of these seems entirely adequate for your use and the amount of light out the front is astounding. You can get an 18650 version with a couple batteries and a charger for about $60 and always have a light ready to go, with a spare battery, if needed.
Cheaper still and blindingly bright, is the 2D Husky light from Home Depot. It's not the "wall of light" the P7s are but it has a heckuvva hotspot and is only $25. If you get one of these, make sure the emitter is perfectly centered in the reflector.
The lights you're considering are very good, but much more bang for the buck is available out there.
edited to add:
I know the OP was asking about drop-ins, but was also asking about maximum lumens per $, which isn't happening w/ a G2...
Build quality of these seems entirely adequate for your use and the amount of light out the front is astounding. You can get an 18650 version with a couple batteries and a charger for about $60 and always have a light ready to go, with a spare battery, if needed.
Cheaper still and blindingly bright, is the 2D Husky light from Home Depot. It's not the "wall of light" the P7s are but it has a heckuvva hotspot and is only $25. If you get one of these, make sure the emitter is perfectly centered in the reflector.
The lights you're considering are very good, but much more bang for the buck is available out there.
edited to add:
I know the OP was asking about drop-ins, but was also asking about maximum lumens per $, which isn't happening w/ a G2...
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lronchef
Newly Enlightened
I hear you bro. I have my OD green nitrolon G2 light on my nightstand with the $13 R2 single mode drop in (from DX extreme) for a solid 2xx lumen blinding any intruder at night. For home defense, quick bursts, or just a few minutes, this is seriously the best bang for the buck I've found. $35ish for G2 and $13 shipped for the R2 or Q5 single mode drop in. WIsh I could have that output on my weaponlight...the TLR-1 light i have on my gun is only around 60-80 lumens i think. Maybe it's time to get "tactifool" crazy and duct tape the G2 with R2 drop in on my m91/30 with bayonet on it! "FOR MOTHER RUSSIA!!!" *charge!*
**EDIT** Ok, yeah. THe aurora p7 is insane and a much better replacement for my g2 with r2 drop in at only $40. So that's a $10 difference, it's much brighter, but has half the runtime..which still makes it a better "HD" light for the home....might be too bright actually...as in you might blind yourself having just awoken to broken glass and flashing down the hall with your eyes adjusted for dark..ouch.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15692
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Do you have a link for the R2 drop in? I'm kind of sceptical on DX though. I got the sku 1447 led for my G2 and it is a P4 and I read it should put out around 100 lumens but it is weaker then the p60 incan in the surefire.
lightinsky
Enlightened
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2006
- Messages
- 432
I got the sku 1447 Cree P4 from DX for my G2 with Aluminum head and I think you are right about the 100 lumens although someone else claims 140 lumens but not sure if this is bulb or actual lumens out the front. I did compare it to the P60 incan bulb and I'd say the 1447 Cree Led is a little brighter but not a huge difference. I was going to get the DX R2 but ended up getting a Solarforce Q5 for my Surefire 6P incan bulb and it is definitely brighter than my G2 with 1447 P4. You can notice the difference between the P4 and Q5. I think it has been said that the difference between later runnings of the Q5's and earlier R2 production runnings are negligible in brightness, not much difference at all.
Two with metal head and one with plastic head.
As i said i made my compromise between comfortness of G2 and heat dissipation (and lifetime of led...)
Pills are contacting with the (almost) only metal part of entire flashlight: metal tube inside body. It isn´t "enough" to heat sink, but i still say it is better than having large contact spring and even smaller heat conducting area at the top of the module.
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