surefire M2 or U2?

[Qbreitling]

which would you rather have, a M2 with Malkoff M60 or the U2 Ultra? please state your reasons.

Here are mine:
The M2 looks incredible. It is a timeless classic piece of American engineering.

Sadly, classic also seems to describe the M2 feature(s). It is a bit outdated as far a tech. the M2 doesn't have multi mode. Sure you can mod it but the price would come very close to the U2 range after the Malkoff upgrade and multi brightness level setting upgrade.

The U2 appearance is not far behind the M2, but it is far more useful. Althought the price is steep, it is high tech and has far more features than M2.

It does however, seems like the U2 is not upgradable and isn't future proof, it could be that the light is new. The M2, on the other hand has infinite led upgrade options and it just looks so damn nice on my desk.

What are your thought?

 

[NoFair]

I'd get the C2 since it is even better with leds than the M2

The U2 is very nice and is one of the best utility lights on the marked. The new ones use Seoul leds and have better runtime than the older Lux 5 models. It isn't extremely impressive brightness wise, but still one of the best lights out there IMO. The Lux 5 model works very well with either a 17670 li-ion or 18650 li-ion. Not all versions have room for the thicker 18650s so you have to ask the buyer. New U2s don't.

There have been some very good deals on used U2s in the marketplace lately, these are the Lux 5 models.

In other words I'd get a C2 with Malkoff or a used U2 (especially if you run it on Li-ions)

 

[AaronM]

Get a Lux-V U2 and upgrade it with an MC-E LED...or have someone mod it.

The following thread has some info on modding the U2: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=210173

 

[Grox]

Depends what you're using it for. The U2 is great for general use, hiking, tool use etc and probably offers more flexibility than the M2 with the levels. The M2+Malkoff is a reliable piece of engineering with a great twisty. It would be ideal in situations where reliability is a prime consideration - although whether it is really more reliable than the U2 would be debateable - there are less points of failure in the malkoff.

Both will be plenty bright when you're using them in the dark - and when you're using them you won't really care that one's more efficient or blah blah. I can't stress this enough. Unless you're totally obsessed by tech specs and get compulsive urges to have the latest and greatest it doesn't matter in the slightest which one you have - both will give you good quality light. Heck, even nichia 5mm leds and lux 1 lights give plenty of good light. Just because there are newer lights doesn't mean they are better.

The U2 has great flexibility with regards to multimodes. Its user interface is a masterpiece of simplicity. The M2 ergonomics are sublime but with the malkoff you're only looking at one mode, albeit a fantastic mode.

I love the lux V U2 beam but it tends to lack a bit in the throw department, which apparently the new seoul fixes. The malkoff beam is incredibly beautiful with great throw and wide useful spill.

I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed either way.

Both lights will last years, and will definitely last past the point where new LEDs supercede them in efficiency.

Why not buy both and sell the one you don't want?

 

[DM51]

..........

Edit: correction - thread was in the incorrect forum and has been moved.

 

[bullfrog]

Honestly, regardless of which you buy, I'd be willing to bet you'll wind up picking up the other as well.

As others have mentioned, go with a C2 over an M2 if you are using the higher powered LEDs such as an M60 - the shock isolation in the M2 actually works against heat dissipation and thus the LED.

If you can only get one, speaking from my personal experience, the C2 is one of my absolute favorites - further, it is INFINITELY upgradable as new technology arise - just buy the lates and greatest drop-in. Further, add a one-cell extender and now you have a great three celled light for even longer runtimes or, if you pick up a Malkoff M30 (a whole other discussion), you can use two AAs. Super flexible light.

Another option might be a bored Surefire 6P over a C2. You can still use Malkoffs or any P60 drops but you can also run on a 18650 rechargeable.... You can bore a C2 but its been mentioned that the walls as a result are too thin in some areas....

Best of luck!

 

[Owen]

Right now, I carry a C2L-HA with a Malkoff M60WLF for an EDC light, use a 6P with M60W and FM34 at work, and as a general purpose light. These two lights get almost all of my current use, and I love both of them. Malkoff drop-ins are the first thing to get a wow out of me in a while, and I've bought five of them in the last 10 weeks.
All that said, a standard M60 in a M2 vs. a U2 is no contest. From what I've read about the new ones, the U2 should be brighter on high, have brighter and wider spill, throw further, and have multiple modes with a much more user-friendly interface than you're going to get from an aftermarket tailcap or mod for the M2. edit: may be mistaken about the brightness. The beamshots I saw weren't in comparison to what I thought they were...
I'd like to have a new U2 modded with a high CRI P4, and with a tip-off diffuser attached. Except for being on the bulky side for carrying around all the time, that combo would be tough to beat, IMO.

 

[GreyShark]

Multimode isn't always an advantage. Early on I felt multimode was important but in actual use I found that I was always running the light full blast. I believe that multimode is actually a disadvantage in a tactical light, I much prefer knowing I will always and can only get a full power beam when I hit the switch. The P60 platform is also extremely adaptable. I have an M2 and with my various drop in's it can run from a few lumens to over 500 lumens, flood or throw, even entirely different spectrums like IR or UV. You really have to define what your intended use of the light is but the M2 as a host is not really outdated.

I also disagree with the idea that the M2 bezel is bad for LED's. I'm sure somebody has an LED somewhere that does have a problem with it but after much experimentation neither my Malkoff nor my other drop in's do. The hottest part of the drop in rests in and contacts the body of the light and that's where most of the heat goes. Most of the rest of the heat goes out the front. If you run the light for a long time the M2 bezel will draw heat from the body. It would be accurate to say the M2 bezel isn't needed with an LED because it's hard to break an LED than an incan's filament but I appreciate the extra durability and I also feel that the greater mass of aluminum helps draw more heat away from the body.

 

[xcel730]

<snip snip>

There have been some very good deals on used U2s in the marketplace lately, these are the Lux 5 models.

I picked one up at a reasonable cost :devil:

I don't mind the older Lux 5. It's still plenty good. Granted I lose a few lumens here and there and the runtime is not as good, but it's more than sufficient.

 

[RobertM]

which would you rather have, a M2 with Malkoff M60 or the U2 Ultra? please state your reasons.

Here are mine:
The M2 looks incredible. It is a timeless classic piece of American engineering.

Sadly, classic also seems to describe the M2 feature(s). It is a bit outdated as far a tech. the M2 doesn't have multi mode. Sure you can mod it but the price would come very close to the U2 range after the Malkoff upgrade and multi brightness level setting upgrade.

The U2 appearance is not far behind the M2, but it is far more useful. Althought the price is steep, it is high tech and has far more features than M2.

It does however, seems like the U2 is not upgradable and isn't future proof, it could be that the light is new. The M2, on the other hand has infinite led upgrade options and it just looks so damn nice on my desk.

What are your thought?

I've never owned a U2, so I can't really say which is better. A while back I was debating between an M2 and a C2 and ending up getting the M2. I must say, I love my M2--it feels like a tank!! I don't know what it is, but an M2 in your hand just feels awesome! :laughing:

With that being said, I primarily only use it with the P61 lamp and don't use any LED drop-ins with it. Down the road I'll probably get a Malkoff P7 or MCE for it, but I'll purchase a C2 head for LED use. Like others have said, go for the C2 if you're going to be running LEDs in it. Otherwise, I'd suggest the M2 :devil:

-Robert

 

[mdocod]

I just want to repeat what others are saying to reinforce this point:

The M2 is not the best choice of host for an LED modules. You don't need shock isolation, and the M2 head is unnecessarily large as a result of the shock isolation.

That said, the M2 platform offers some nice versatility if you want to dabble in incandescent options. The shock isolation is really an incan-only benefit.

I think both options [U2 vs M2] are versatile in their own way. The U2 is versatile in that it has the wide "band" of output right out of the box. A M2/C2/6P or similar has the advantage of being "D26" module compatible, which means that you can choose lots of different lighting options, both LED and incan.

I think there is one very important question here though, (often overlooked at the onset of these decisions)..
*Do you forecast a desire to move towards a rechargeable solution long term? And/Or are you intending to use this light enough to justify the initial investment of a rechargeable option?*
If yes: You may find your "ideal" flashlight in something *like* an M2, by building up a flashlight using an 18650 compatible body. In which case, you would likely be using something like an M30 instead of n M60.

-Eric

 

[kramer5150]

IMHO the M60 paired with an M2 make a great tandem. I borrowed one for a couple days, foil wrapped it and used a DX spring to provide reliable negative contact. I didn't notice any thermal problems at all. I also use DX modules in mine with the same foil wrap treatment... same good results.

IMHO the M2 bezel is big and bulky, and true its thermal shock isolation does not really matter with an LED circuit. I think the one thing it has going for it over the standard C2/6P bezel is its thicker wall. I have found the 6P bezel can dent easily when dropped, I haven't found that to be the case with the M2 bezel.

IMHO the U2 in some regards is in another league though, with all its UI and mode selection.

The M2 however can easily be modded with the various LED and INCAN P60 drop ins. I think that's the ONE aspect the M2 remains superior.

To answer your question...
I'd rather have an M30 + M2 and use 17670 cells. IMHO boring out an M2 to fit 18650 cells is risky... or at the very least (AFAIK) it has never been done before.

 

[GreyShark]

I just want to repeat what others are saying to reinforce this point:

The M2 is not the best choice of host for an LED modules. You don't need shock isolation, and the M2 head is unnecessarily large as a result of the shock isolation.

But the M2 is much stronger than the Z44. If you carry your light for self defense and expect to have the option of using it as an impact device... clearly many do... it is nice to be reasonably assured you won't have to replace the bezel after such an incident. While Z44's are cheap and Surefire would probably warranty it under such circumstances I personally don't care for gear that breaks while you're using it.

I personally carry the Z44 bezel down in my pocket. This isn't as convenient with the larger M2 so I carry it bezel up. Not a big deal.

That said, the M2 platform offers some nice versatility if you want to dabble in incandescent options. The shock isolation is really an incan-only benefit.

Agreed. I like a WA1111 or P91 on 2x IMR's with the M2 bezel. I'm awaiting 1185's to try on 3x IMR. Though as others have pointed out elsewhere there's still the electronics package if not the LED itself to consider. I haven't started any destructive testing along those lines yet but it seems reasonable if you're concerned about how your gear performs in extremis.

 

[Owen]

IMHO boring out an M2 to fit 18650 cells is risky... or at the very least (AFAIK) it has never been done before.

It's a common mod. It presents a challenge with the Malkoffs, though, because they can no longer make reliable contact with the battery tube as they're designed to, and will rattle around as well.
I no longer have either the M30F, or the bored C2 body that I was using at the time, but here's how I solved the fit issue..I ground out a washer so that it press fit the Malkoff, and held it securely in place.

I would probably take some additional steps to ensure a good heat path, but this worked perfectly.

 

[Qbreitling]

You guys aren't making my process of M2 vs U2 any easier. I was looking for a definate answer...some where a long the line "U2 sucks" or "M2 burned my house". I need to eliminate one of the two, so far all your reasons pushed me toward... "why not both?".

Althought they are different in many ways, they are also very similar in many aspects. And at this point i have to play the elimination game.

Quality and Support is what great about this forum and what's great about Surefire. I guess this boiles down to the trusty coin flip.

The U2 is pretty self explainatory in term of features and usefulness.

Here's my questions for the M2 folks: which method or mod can/did you used to turn the M2 into multi mode? Tail cap? if so, which? Pictures are greatly appreciated.

 

[Sgt. LED]

If you were only going to have one or the other then get the U2. Having just the right amount of light for a particular task is very nice in my experience. No hooding, no blinding glare from trying to read something, no wishing you could turn it down indoors, no aching for more output by always running a dimmer light either.

If you ever do get tired of it then the light can be modded into a MC-E monster or a sweet U2by2 even. I can tell you, those mods are very nice to use!

I have what's basically an M2 on my M4 and I really like it with a Malkoff but the light isn't ON for a great amount of time at a stretch so the heat is fine. If I was going to run it for 30+ minutes at a time then the shock absorbing head would not be my first choice. If you just want to use a Malkoff try the C2. You seem to be fixed on the M2 though!

The tailcap can be modded for multi-mode but I have no personal experience with doing it. Somebody sells an easy to swap option on the Marketplace I believe.

 

[Owen]

Here's my questions for the M2 folks: which method or mod can/did you used to turn the M2 into multi mode? Tail cap? if so, which? Pictures are greatly appreciated.

Two that I've tried recently are the McC2S and AW's 3 mode soft start.
-The McC2S worked as it was supposed to, with a very useful low, but I didn't like that I couldn't screw the tailcap down as far as usual, and it just didn't "feel right" because there was a sweet spot that I had to frequently find for it to work just right with the batteries I was using(worked better on another light, but the tailcap didn't match).
-The AW switch works well, but has no momentary. I like that it has a memory, so I could turn it off, and have it come on in the same mode(typically low for me). On the downside is the lack of momentary use, and I don't find the middle mode all that useful. I labeled it a keeper, but after going back and forth, have been leaving it off. Guess I'm still undecided.
Haven't tried the UNIQ variable brightness tailcap, or others.

I have an urge to try my hand at removing the board from a Malkoff, and replace it with a Gdup board from the Sandwich Shoppe, but am kind of afraid I'll screw it up

 

[Sgt. LED]

I have an urge to try my hand at removing the board from a Malkoff, and replace it with a Gdup board from the Sandwich Shoppe, but am kind of afraid I'll screw it up

Sounds like a sweet mod that wouldn't be too hard to pull off.
GO FOR IT MAN!

 

[Yoda4561]

If you want it as an all in one package, get the U2. If you want easy upgrade paths and customizing options, get the M2 or C2. The U2 can be modded as others have mentioned, but it takes more skill/more money if you can't do it yourself.

 

[kramer5150]

You guys aren't making my process of M2 vs U2 any easier. I was looking for a definate answer...some where a long the line "U2 sucks" or "M2 burned my house". I need to eliminate one of the two, so far all your reasons pushed me toward... "why not both?".

Althought they are different in many ways, they are also very similar in many aspects. And at this point i have to play the elimination game.

Quality and Support is what great about this forum and what's great about Surefire. I guess this boiles down to the trusty coin flip.

The U2 is pretty self explainatory in term of features and usefulness.

Here's my questions for the M2 folks: which method or mod can/did you used to turn the M2 into multi mode? Tail cap? if so, which? Pictures are greatly appreciated.

Thats generally what happens when you try and compare apples to oranges. The differences in design take center stage and it merely washes out too a discussion of personal preferences. You are not going to get a clear winner.

I use a DX11836 drop in and modded the board with a 3.6V 3-mode (low-med-hi) board from DX (no strobes). I added an extra current driver so it runs the XRE at 1350mah on high, %50 on med and 10% on low. It has mode memory so that makes it easier to use, and the low modes have a very high PWM... almost imperceptible. I use a 17670 cell and am very happy with it, although the Cree rings are very pronounced. I modded the OEM twisty with a reverse clicky and like that much better for mode switching. I prefer forward switches for single mode lights and rev clicky for mode switching designs.