Survival/Combat flashlight type choice

PaulHsu

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Jul 30, 2007
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I was wondering what you guys would suggest for this application - as a survival light I'm not sure if I would need a fulltime headlamp or if it would be better to get a regular one that can be attached to a hat or strap. Strap model suggestions are also welcome :)

Which one is a better idea in your opinion?
 
Surefire Saint...when it comes out :sick2:. Can use 1, 2, or 3 CR123's, or even two AA's...and the dimmable switch (0-100 Lumens)/built in S.O.S....not to mention the SF reliability...that, or a Zebra would be my second choice, with a PT JIC (Just In Case) mounted on the side.
 
Surefire Saint...when it comes out :sick2:. Can use 1, 2, or 3 CR123's, or even two AA's...and the dimmable switch (0-100 Lumens)/built in S.O.S....not to mention the SF reliability...

+1

This will utterly devastate the headlamp market :devil:

For survival/combat I would also recommend carrying at least two more lights as back-ups. Also, if you are in combat you need a red filter.

How about a:

Ra Clicky or Twisty (bombproof and craaaaaaaazy low lows)
Surefire LX2 (uber thrower and reliable UI)
Malkoff M60LL in a Surefire G2 (all around great survival light - looooooooong runtime)
Lastly, consider a light that can run on easy-to-find AAs like a D10 or LD10.

Like mentioned earlier - give us more specifics on your exact needs. HUGE difference between recommendations for combat or a survival situation... :whistle:

just noticed this was my 1,000th post :party:
 
i have a surefire m2 as a backup - the Zerbras seem to be a good design - how is their durability compared to surefires? I wish they had a drop in type model...
 
Sorry i was pretty vague :)

More for survival I guess than combat I would want a reasonable throw also with good light for close up work at night.

Would clipping a lightweight model to a hat be really inferior to a fully dedicated headlight? I would really like it drop in ready for future improvements but it looks like nobody makes anything like this now.
 
i have a surefire m2 as a backup - the Zerbras seem to be a good design - how is their durability compared to surefires? I wish they had a drop in type model...

I have a Zebra H501 and mine is fine, and waterproof, however some people have had waterproofing issues with their Zebra H501's. For this reason some are suggesting get the Zebra H50 that has a twist on/off switch instead of a clicky, and therefore more water resistant. However, i would say get a 501 and test that its waterproof in a cup of water or something, and if it isn't send it to them and ask them to make it waterproof for you.

For clipping onto a hat i would go for a Fenix LD01 SS with an eneloop battery in it, and a couple of spare batteries in my wallet.

For survival you may want to read my thread here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=235543

I did a short bush survival scenario and basically concluded the H501 was best.

For a primary light the TK40 would be hard to beat, but its not something your going to EDC, and it is expensive compared to other lights I have mentioned so far.
 
Survival:

for me, i need a light that will run for weeks on end, several hours a day on a LOW (say about 10 lumens). It will have a twisty (k.i.s.s.) switch that CANNOT be easily unthreaded (lost). It will be able to be submerged, left in the sun, have rocks dropped on it and STILL work. It will have a continuous red locator LED so i can mark my camp. And last it will have a BRIGHT SOS signal for overhead signalling.

:twothumbs
 
Survival:

for me, i need a light that will run for weeks on end, several hours a day on a LOW (say about 10 lumens). It will have a twisty (k.i.s.s.) switch that CANNOT be easily unthreaded (lost). It will be able to be submerged, left in the sun, have rocks dropped on it and STILL work. It will have a continuous red locator LED so i can mark my camp. And last it will have a BRIGHT SOS signal for overhead signalling.

:twothumbs

I'm pretty much the same, except the SOS on all torches is way too slow (takes about 10 seconds to get out the full code, when really it should take 3-4 tops) so i would just go for a beacon mode like on the TK40. Also a fire can be used to signal and mark the camp, and in bush survival you will have a fire. Maybe not in urban environment, not sure.

Another thing you "may" consider, would be that you can light a fire with most incans in an emergency, however I think you would be better off with the longer battery life of a LED and just taking a spare lighter ;)

AA torches are good because cheap compact solar AA battery chargers can be found, thus giving you somewhat of an "unlimited" power supply.

Clickys may not be as reliable as twisties, however, if your clicky does fail in an emergency you can run a wire or some tin foil between the body and the battery that will keep it on.
 
Survival:

for me, i need a light that will run for weeks on end, several hours a day on a LOW (say about 10 lumens). It will have a twisty (k.i.s.s.) switch that CANNOT be easily unthreaded (lost). It will be able to be submerged, left in the sun, have rocks dropped on it and STILL work. It will have a continuous red locator LED so i can mark my camp. And last it will have a BRIGHT SOS signal for overhead signalling.

:twothumbs

I'm pretty much the same, except the SOS on all torches is way too slow (takes about 10 seconds to get out the full code, when really it should take 3-4 tops) so i would just go for a beacon mode like on the TK40. Also a fire can be used to signal and mark the camp, and in bush survival you will have a fire. Maybe not in urban environment, not sure.

Another thing you "may" consider, would be that you can light a fire with most incans in an emergency, however I think you would be better off with the longer battery life of a LED and just taking a spare lighter ;)

AA torches are good because cheap compact solar AA battery chargers can be found, thus giving you somewhat of an "unlimited" power supply.

Clickys may not be as reliable as twisties, however, if your clicky does fail in an emergency you can run a wire or some tin foil between the body and the battery that will keep it on.

any suggestions on models that meet these criteria?
 
any suggestions on models that meet these criteria?

Most of the lights already suggested have some or all of these features, IE, the Zebralight has a low low that lasts 60+ hours, the Fenix TK40 has a low that lasts 160 hours. The TK40 also has a beacon/sos/strobe modes. All lights mentioned so far have good durability/waterproof. I dont know of any light off the top of my head that has a "continous on" red locator LED though....

Highly doubt it.
Will be too expensive for a lot of people.
Only real advantage over the zebralight would be the ability to take AA and 123 batts. But who in his right mind would go out without spares?

Agreed. I mean I can see that there would be some slight advantages to being able to take both CR123 and AA but nothing that is going to cause a massive flood towards it. It does have a decent high mode going for it though.

I guess we just wait and see...
 
For survival, i'd et a Fenix headband, that allows you to mount your flashlight to use as a handsfree. I would go for Jetbeam lights, maybe the new Jet I v3.0 and a bunch of AAs probably eneloops (they'll hold a charge longer) and you'd be all set. (i already own a Zebralight H501 so i wouldnt need this) but i would also have another AA light with me, probably the Jet I v 2.0 (own THAT too :D )

The Jet I v3.0 has a 2 way clip so you can clip it to the bill of a cap (but that is never as useful as a dedicated headband/headlamp) and you can program the light's 3 modes individually so you can balance output with runtime to suit your needs.

And finally, a backup light, i would go for (and own) a Fenix E01 with a spare AAA or 2.

Edit to include combat:

For combat, Fenix TK40, it has a blazing 630 lumens and that light can survive too (no pun intended, or maybe there was, haha), check out this Aussiebob's Xtreme TK40 torture test
 
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For survival, i'd et a Fenix headband, that allows you to mount your flashlight to use as a handsfree. I would go for Jetbeam lights, maybe the new Jet I v3.0 and a bunch of AAs probably eneloops (they'll hold a charge longer) and you'd be all set. (i already own a Zebralight H501 so i wouldnt need this) but i would also have another AA light with me, probably the Jet I v 2.0 (own THAT too :D )

The Jet I v3.0 has a 2 way clip so you can clip it to the bill of a cap (but that is never as useful as a dedicated headband/headlamp) and you can program the light's 3 modes individually so you can balance output with runtime to suit your needs.

And finally, a backup light, i would go for (and own) a Fenix E01 with a spare AAA or 2.

Edit to include combat:

For combat, Fenix TK40, it has a blazing 630 lumens and that light can survive too (no pun intended, or maybe there was, haha), check out this Aussiebob's Xtreme TK40 torture test

wow the tk40 looks nice - does it use a drop in that can be upgraded?
 
any suggestions on models that meet these criteria?

Out of all the lights I own, here would be my survival setup and what I would be comfortable with relying on:

I would first suggest, regardless of what primary lights you choose, getting yourself two Fenix E01s (or arc-AAAs if you prefer) - they run on 1xAAA, great output/runtime, and pretty tough - dont think anyone has had a failure yet. They are cheap ($15) so you can afford to buy two (hey, this is your potential survival we are talkin about!). Keep them on a lanyard that you can just throw around your neck in a survival situation. You could also just buy like 15 fauxtons to keep on a lanyard :tinfoil:

I'd highly recommend a Ra Clicky or Ra Twisty - out of all the lights I've ever owned, these are the two I would trust the most and is my EDC. Further, the Clicky is a bargain at $99.

If you want to get super versatile, "end of the world" setup, you may want to pick up a Surefire 6P (or C2 or G2), one cell extender and a Malkoff M60LL. You can then run the M60LL in the 6P on 2xCR123s, 3xCR123s with the extender or 2xAAs with the extender. The usable "declining output" you will get from that sucker will be amazing.

Lastly, I'd recommend a good headlamp - take your pick. I don't mind spending money when it come to lights, but the the headlamp I choose to carry in my survival kit is the cheap ($23) but awesome Petzl E+lite. The sucker is TINY, has a versatile clip (you can clip it to your shirt), has white and red output (4 modes - 2 high, 2 low) and good runtime. It runs on the coin cells so you could easily carry like 8 spares in a standard matchbox. The tint is pretty blue (like the arc aaa-gs) but it is just for emergencies. I highly recommend it. As far as your question on clipping a hand held light to hat vs. using a headlamp, in a survival situation where you might be running or exerting yourself physically, I don't think clipping it to a hat would work too well and I certainly would not want to risk it falling off my brim...

Another important point that I think is overlooked: In a real emergency/disaster, chances are you will not be alone and have much better odds of surviving if you have someone else with you - so that is another reason why I think it advantageous to carry three lights minimum - to provide one to whoever is with you. I keep a few cheapo fauxtons in my edc bag for this very purpose - I can also imagine the scenario of being the only guy stuck on the subway with a light and the ensuing mob panicky madness to grab it from me - if I throw a handful of fauxtons on the floor, problem potentially solved (can you tell how much though I've given this - I was a risk manager at one point ;) )

Just curious, are you going to be carrying these lights in your EDC bag with you or just to keep at home in a BOB type deal?

In my EDC bag right now (which comes everywhere with me) I carry a Ra Clicky Tac 140, Surefire E2L + diffuser, and a Petzl E+lite. I have a few fauxtons as well and an Arc-AAA on my keys. I also carry a keep2go tube with 4 spare Surefire primaries.

Sounds like a lot :)tinfoil:) but, from my personal experience: I take the subway everyday to work - spending about 50 minutes each way underground (this includes transferring and waiting for subways) - and after living through past events in NYC, have had my eyes opened to how disasters work in a big city: If God forbid there was another disaster in this city and I was somewhere outside of my neighborhood (let alone the subway!!!), it would be pretty unlikely that I'd be able to get back to my apt to get my BOB in any type of quick fashion (I made it from my office in the financial district to my apt on the upper east side in just over 2 hours during the transit strike a few years back - and that was under normal circumstances) - so I carry a pretty extensive, yet realistic, kit with me whenever I leave the neighborhood (it all fits nicely in a packrat organizer, weighs under 3 lbs and fits nicely in my briefcase). If I was at home when a survival/emergency hit, shi*t I'd throw every last light I own in my ruck ;)

Hope this helps!
 
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wow the tk40 looks nice - does it use a drop in that can be upgraded?

Short answer no. Almost any light can be upgraded if you know how to pull it apart and are good at soldering, but there is nothing you can buy at the moment to "drop in" the TK40. That said its using pretty much the newest LED in available at the moment anyhow.

The TK40 is nice, if you have the US$150 to pay for it, i would highly recommend that as a survival light, only a couple of small issues with it from a survival point of view:

1. It has a low rate of parasitic drain. If you put lithiums in it, dont expect a 10 year shelf life unless you "lock out" the tail cap by unscrewing it untill it wont turn on anymore.

2. If the switch dies you cant force it to light using a wire from the rear of the battery holder to the body.

For survival you dont want to rely on a single light anyway, because any light, from any manufacturer can fail. The TK40 would definitely compliment the likes of a TK20, LD10, Zebra H501 or LD01 SS very well in your collection of survival lights.
 
"If you want to get super versatile, "end of the world" setup, you may want to pick up a Surefire 6P (or C2 or G2), one cell extender and a Malkoff M60LL. You can then run the M60LL in the 6P on 2xCR123s, 3xCR123s with the extender or 2xAAs with the extender."




Bullfrog - so you can use AAs in some surefires with an extender?
 
"If you want to get super versatile, "end of the world" setup, you may want to pick up a Surefire 6P (or C2 or G2), one cell extender and a Malkoff M60LL. You can then run the M60LL in the 6P on 2xCR123s, 3xCR123s with the extender or 2xAAs with the extender."




Bullfrog - so you can use AAs in some surefires with an extender?

Yes, for 2xAAs I have used a 6P, G2, C2 with one-cell extenders and a C3 and 9P on its own - there is a fine connection in the tube. The AAs rattle slightly if you shake it but, do not lose connection. However, you can easily make a cardboard sleeve if the rattle bothers you.

You have to make sure you have a Malkoff P60 style drop-in installed though - I havent tried AAs with the standard P60L or any other P60 style dropins. The best Malkoffs from my experience for AAs are M30, M60L and M60LL. I dont think the M60 is worth it to run this way.

There is a ton of good info on here about Malkoffs being run on AAs :thumbsup:
 
If I had to grab only one light for survival use, I'd take my Streamlight Sidewinder. It seems to last forever on two AA batteries and although it's not a powerful flashlight, if I wanted a little light for a long time, this would be my choice. Additionally it has a slow strobe feature that can be used as an emergency beacon.

The 20 lumen white LED will run for seven hours or you could use one of the colored LEDS on strobe for 24 hours.

A new version of the sidewinder (the compact) has recently been released (must get one!) that more than doubles the amount of white light it can put out for 5 hours run time on high and an amazing 70 hours on low!

Of course, as a registered flashaholic, I'd grab all my lights and all my stock of batteries in a survival scenario!
 
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