Tactical Flashlight....Fallacy?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Stumbled into this site and figure you guys might be interested.

Lesson #13 The Flashlight


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2d_edge

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JK... I see a different picture..

Will there be a big difference or advantage in a defensive situation if the light source is a;

1. $120.00 Surefire M2 that will light for 30 minutes.
2. $35.00 Scorpion with about the same light output that will light for 1 hour
3. $27.00 UKE-4AA which is also bright and will light for 4 - 5 hours.

I find it difficult for me to understand the wisdom in having a defensive tactical flashlight that I expect to have with me 24/7 that will shine from 30 minutes to 1 hour on a set of batteries. Yes there is the lightweight factor but after an hour of continous or intermittent run that becomes useless.

Now if I'm at home and I hear somebody walking around outside my house I'd just flick on the switch to turn the lights on outside of my house and peek through the windows to see wassup or bring a LSI 1.5 M candlelight spotlamp to light-scan the area. I think it doesn't matter to the intruder if he is going to attack or shoot me whether I'm carrying a Surefire or LSI.

I don't get it or I'm just not really a tactical person.

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2d_edge

(edit price of UKE-4AA to $27.00)

[This message has been edited by 2d_edge (edited 09-14-2000).]

 

[Size15's]

If you carry a gun at night/ in the dark, use a gun-mounted flashlight!!!
Then you can have your other hand free to help the gun hand or to radio for help or to scatch your nose etc...

If you carry a baton, use a baton-mounted flashlight. Then you have you other hand free...

If you have a SureFire, and shine it at a moving person at short-range, then they will not be able to see you or face you giving you the advantage. They will move to get out of the light. You will keep the light on them. Sure they could shoot at you, but you'd see that coming. Remember you can move too and still shine the light at them!!

Now I could pick holes in that "lesson 13" forever, but I will give just a few views.

If the people who use big maglites or SL35X's etc drop the heavy things, who can blame them?
Wrong light for the situation. If the light is on your gun, you can't drop it!

These classes are for ordinary people, not Police SWAT teams/Special Forces etc. These highly trained and highly practiced units will know how to use their equipment. They will be able to use a gunlight and gun at the same time.

So I will give this a rest for a bit.

It is said that most "tactical situations" in low light/no light environments are over very quickly - minutes. Runtime for the flashlights designed and tested for these situations does not need to be very long. If you have a tactical situation that does not allow the changing of batteries / reloading of ammo etc. that lasts for an hour, you're very very very unlucky!

The UKE-4AA is not a tactical flashlight. It's designed as a work/dive light.

Now the example of you in your house is different. you will find it very hard to shoot carrying an LSI. Floodlights will give the intruder a very clear idea of your house and garden/yard. Shining an LSI / 12PM/M4/M6 will not give him as many options. I don't think this observational situation is a tactical situation. Engaging the intruder with a gun and gunlight is. You need a gunlight for a gun, not an M2 etc.

Threat Identification is crutially important. If the person a person or a dog? Is ther person armed with a gun or a nonleathal baton or nonprojectile weapon?
Is the person you little son, or a baddie brute? How can you tell if you can't see? You give a shout "Stop! Identify yourselves!" (Note use of plural - can make the suspect use plural in return. This can give you the advantage also of hesitation in the suspect. They not attack if they think you know where they are which give you time and power over them.)

You may also shoot at people used as humanshields unless you light them up to check.

Example:
At night, you hear a noise downstairs, you grab your gun, go down in the dark and shoot the intruder. Turning on the lights, you've shot your son (etc) in the kitchen taking cookies. If you take your gun with gunlight, and use it, you will still be able to shoot, but you will know who you are shooting at without having to turn on the lights and ruining your element of surprise. Also when you turn of the room light, your using a hand that gives you better aim and allows a waiting intruder to see you and shoot you while you're busy finding and flicking the switch!!

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Will there be a big difference or advantage in a defensive situation if
the light source is a;

1. $120.00 Surefire M2 that will light for 30 minutes.
2. $35.00 Scorpion with about the same light output that will light for
1 hour
3. $27.00 UKE-4AA which is also bright and will light for 4 - 5 hours.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any of the ones you mention will be better than nothing. That being said, one factor I consider to be "tactical" in a flashlight is the ability to turn it on/off with one hand, leaving the other one free.

JK

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Most of the "NEW REVOLUTIONARY COMBAT SYSTEMS!" attempt to garner attention by bashing other methods/systems. Having a light source at hand in dark situations beats the hell out of walking around in the dark, especially when you're armed and in a defensive situation. Of course you can just blast anything that makes noise, but some people like to be certain of their target, for liability reasons.

JK

 

[Unicorn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
JK...
I find it difficult for me to understand the wisdom in having a defensive tactical flashlight that I expect to have with me 24/7 that will shine from 30 minutes to 1 hour on a set of batteries. Yes there is the lightweight factor but after an hour of continous or intermittent run that becomes useless.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When using a light for tactical purposes you're not going to have it on for an hour. Usually just a few seconds at a time to light up an area quickly to see what is there. You might keep it on to positively a person before shooting them, or you might try to blind them with the light. Most of the time you're not shining the light constanctly every which way. All that does is run down your light and let everyone for a mile around know where you are.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unicorn:

When using a light for tactical purposes you're not going to have it on for an hour. Usually just a few seconds at a time to light up an area quickly to see what is there. You might keep it on to positively a person before shooting them, or you might try to blind them with the light. Most of the time you're not shining the light constanctly every which way. All that does is run down your light and let everyone for a mile around know where you are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. To have this conversation, it might be good for all participants to have a basic idea of current thinking in "tactical" flashlight usage. Short light and identify or move seems to be the popular wave.

Anyway, ignoring the police-usage aspect of tactical lights, it's easy to give examples of why a typical gun-owning homeowner might want one. Given a typical nighttime break in, with a homeowner who has kids (so he can't just sit in his "saferoom" until the cops arrive)...

When I go from bedroom to hallway, it is dark. The light switch is across the hallway, and several steps down. I'd be a dope to just step out into that hallway without knowing and identifying what's there, and the light switch doesn't cut it. And, even if I do get to the light switch, when I turn on the hall light, that will have the effect of illuminating the hallway (and me), so that a bad guy standing in my still-dark living room will not only remain unidentified, but will have a clear lighted shot at me.

On the other hand, if I find myself entering the hallway from the other side (there's a switch at the other end around the corner), then it may make more sense for me to turn on the light switch, so now the hallway is lit up and I'm still in the dark behind concealment (the corner).

Anyway, I could go through my house and give these types of examples, but suffice it to say, I've thought this out some, and am pretty convinced a tactical light is a must.


Joe

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I've read the Plus P whole advice on flashlight page, and I agree with the guy. If someone is in your home, having a "special" little light is not going to help you. I'm not a handgun owner nor do I support handguns.

However, I ask how much experience do each of you have with handgun situations. Now I'm not talking about holding the gun and waving it around for fun, but having a life or death situation in which an intruder is in your home, and you "must" protect yourself. I'll bet the answer is no one.

You can give me the entire floorplan of your house and tell me that the lights eliminate the element of surprise, but in actuality when the **** hits the fan, are you going to be able to cut it?

All this really sounds like a bunch of little boys who like to play cops and robbers (with flashlights mind you) but in actuality have never really been placed in that situation. Give me a break

Roger

[Moderator censored unsuitable language. Please use language appropriate to this forum which can be read by all ages. Thanks.]

 

[Size15's]

This is not really a forum for those who have such flashlights for "Tactical" use. Personally, I leave such matters to the LEO who are more likely to be highly trained experts in these matters.

This is a forum for people to discuss flashlights. We use "special" flashlights because they are very bright and very small. I don't read of people wanting and using them specifically to defend themselves etc. That's not why we use them. To dig up this old thread which has practically nothing to do with the current themes, and being abusive is not one the ways I'd have suggested to start your first discussion.

Please show some consideration & respect in this forum that is open to those of all ages.

Thanks

Al