Test/Review of Orbtronic 18650PD 2900mAh (Black)

HKJ

HKJ

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
9,714
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
[size=+3]Orbtronic 18650PD 2900mAh (Black)[/size]

DSC_4254.jpg


Official specifications:
  • Battery type: 18650
  • High Drain Capacity: 2900mAh
  • Max Discharge (constant current): 10A
  • Max Discharge Pulse Current (5-6 sec.): 18A
  • Full charge: 4.2V
  • Charging method: CV/CC
  • Minimum charging current: 0.6A
  • Rapid Charging current: 1.35A
  • Nominal (storage) voltage: 3.6V-3.7V
  • Minimum discharge voltage level: 2.5V
  • Dimensions: 18.5mm x 66.5mm
  • Weight: 46g
  • Button Top: Yes
  • AC-IR: 21 mOhm

Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-info.png


This is the newest high current cell from Panasonic. This battery uses the PF cell, even though it is named PD. The main difference between the PD and PF cell is that Panasonic has made the PF cell a bit safer (There is also a very minor capacity increase).

DSC_4253.jpg


DSC_4256.jpg
DSC_4257.jpg


DSC_4258.jpg

DSC_4259.jpg


Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-Capacity.png


The two batteries has a very good match in capacity and does also keep the capacity at high loads.

Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-CapacityTimeHours.png


Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-CapacityTime.png


Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-Energy.png


Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-PowerLoadTime.png


Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-TripCurrent.png


Orbtronic%2018650PD%202900mAh%20(Black)-Charge.png




[size=+3]Conclusion[/size]

There are cells with higher voltage at high current, but none other with this much capacity.
With a Panasonic cell inside it is a very good battery, that can deliver a lot of current.


[size=+3]Notes and links[/size]

How is the test done and how to read the charts
How is a protected LiIon battery constructed
More about button top and flat top batteries
 
S

space-cowboy

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
150
Location
Florida
Thank you HKJ for your time, and knowledge to test all these batteries.
 
M

Mr. Tone

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
2,351
Location
Illinois
Ditto on thanks for these reviews. HKJ, your reviews are some of the very best and most important contributions to our hobby. Your methods and explanations are thorough, practical, and useful. Thanks again for another great review!
 
Last edited:
candle lamp

candle lamp

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
1,572
Location
South Korea
Very informative and wonderful test as always. HKJ! :thumbsup:

Thanks a lot.
 
RI Chevy

RI Chevy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
3,600
Location
Ocean State
How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

Another excellent review! :thumbsup:

How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?
 
M

Mr. Tone

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
2,351
Location
Illinois
Re: How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

Another excellent review! :thumbsup:

How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

This is the newest high current cell from Panasonic. This battery uses the PF cell, even though it is named PD. The main difference between the PD and PF cell is that Panasonic has made the PF cell a bit safer (There is also a very minor capacity increase).
 
RI Chevy

RI Chevy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
3,600
Location
Ocean State
Re: How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

Ah.....I missed that little blurb. I recently found some of the PF cells, but they are clearly marked as PF. Thank you for that finding that.
 
M

Mr. Tone

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
2,351
Location
Illinois
Re: How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

Ah.....I missed that little blurb. I recently found some of the PF cells, but they are clearly marked as PF. Thank you for that finding that.

Do you have the bare cells? Have you tried them out in anything high draw yet?
 
RI Chevy

RI Chevy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
3,600
Location
Ocean State
Re: How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

No, I do not have the bare PF cells. I have the unprotected NCR18650PD cells. They are pretty good cells.
 
T

TEEJ

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,490
Location
NJ
Re: How do these cells differ from the newer NCR18650PF?

Excellent Review as always, Sir.

:D

These look like an excellent alternative to IMR 18650, which seem to top out at closer to 2250 mah or so.
 
ThirstyTurtle

ThirstyTurtle

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
1,736
So these are Lithium Manganese cells right? So aren't they IMR? Or is IMR a brand name? I love the idea of a safer chemistry as opposed to a protected dangerous-er cell.
 
T

torukmakto4

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
112
So these are Lithium Manganese cells right?

NCA

So aren't they IMR? Or is IMR a brand name?

"IMR" is not a brand, it is part of a pseudostandard cell model prefix format for Li-ion: Lithium-ion, manganese oxide cathode, round package.

Here's something that has been on my mind a while: Nowadays a lot of high power cells are not IMR, they are various "hybrid" chemistries most of which have nickel and cobalt involved and some of which contain no manganese. If you open up 10 new drill packs you might find one that has true IMR cells in them, and those are probably Chinese and made by Lishen and found in a Ryobi pack.

Related: I wonder how many "IMR" cells sold in the flashlight market are really IMR today. Some of the discharge curves don't look like IMR. LiMn2O4 cells have a nominal voltage of 3.8V. That seems to be a reliable telltale when looking at industrial cell datasheets.

This is a real IMR: http://www.molicel.com/ca/pdf/IMR18650E.pdf

And this is a hybrid: http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/UR18650SAX.pdf

I love the idea of a safer chemistry as opposed to a protected dangerous-er cell.

You see, that's something I wonder about nowadays. Are the low current type cells of recent design really less safe than the high power?

There has been a lot of R&D both with safety engineering and with chem, and neither class of cell is what it was years ago. I don't think anything over 2600mAh (18650) is regular lico... Pana has their NCR series (supposedly NCA), and Sanyo calls their 4.35v cells "neo-hybrid cathode". Samsung lists their high charge voltage cells as having a "safety functional layer" similar to Pana's "heat resistance layer".

So how does all that stack up as far as :poof: probability? Is it really safer to use two INR18650-20R in series than two NCR18650B? I don't think anyone knows. It's just an assumption that high power equals safer. I'd bet they are more or less even.

As to the Pana PD... These cells were intended for EV packs. The vent indentation in the can on the PD (Deleted from the PF) is part of a Tesla patent. Speculation on endless-sphere, which I think was more than just speculation, was that the PD cell was exactly identical to the original NCR18650 but with the PTC removed. No chem difference. just like the old CGR18650CH and CGR18650CG.

And ultimately, the NCRs seem really safe, haven't heard of one blowing yet, and there is a video of someone with a big hammer smashing 2 charged ones to bits that do not even warm up let alone ignite.
 
ThirstyTurtle

ThirstyTurtle

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
1,736
Thanks for all the detailed information! I was asking because I've been using AW IMR cells on my ZL H602W because it gets the longest and highest output use of any of my lights AND it's literally strapped to my forehead so even though the ZL has built-in low-voltage cutoff, I wanted the absolute safest cells I could get. The problem is they're only 2,000mAh so I have ordered 4 of these cells in the hopes of gaining some added capacity without sacrificing the inherent safety benefits of manganese cells. I need to re-read your post a few times but I THINK I've accomplished that goal.
 
G

Glow Bug

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
964
Location
South Carolina
I posted this on the TM26 (Nitecore Tiny Monster 26) thread but wanted to put it here as well for feedback and to have the safest batteries for it when running in turbo mode.

Could protected NCR18650PF Panasonic battery cells which Orbtronic sells (2900mah) be charged inside the TM26? Also, since these are high drain models, would the voltage remain higher on the turbo mode than when using the other models such as the NCR18650B cells? 0.6 amp minimum charging current so is the charging system or the TM26 capable of charging 4 cells?



















 
Last edited:
HKJ

HKJ

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
9,714
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
I posted this on the TM26 (Nitecore Tiny Monster 26) thread but wanted to put it here as well for feedback and to have the safest batteries for it when running in turbo mode.

Could protected NCR18650PF Panasonic battery cells which Orbtronic sells (2900mah) be charged inside the TM26? Also, since these are high drain models, would the voltage remain higher on the turbo mode than when using the other models such as the NCR18650B cells? 0.6 amp minimum charging current so is the charging system or the TM26 capable of charging 4 cells?

I cannot answer questions about the TM26, because I do not have it.

The standard version of the Orbtronic battery is not protected.

For the unprotected version you can use my comparator to compare voltage to other batteries. A protected battery will have up to 0.1 volt lower output at its maximum output current, due to the protection. I.e. if the protection trips at 10A, the output will be 0.1 volt lower at 10A and 0.01 volt lower at 1A.

The "Minimum charge current" is a typo, it is probably "Standard charge current", i.e. using a higher current will reduce the lifetime of the battery. All batteries has a standard/nominal charge current where the parameters are guaranteed and a maximum charge current where the battery is safe to charge, but it will reduce the lifetime. Often only the standard current are specified.
 
Last edited:
G

Glow Bug

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
964
Location
South Carolina
Thanks for the reply. I will probably just use the protected 3100-3400 NCR18650 cells. I really do not use the turbo function enough worry about the voltage sag. This way, I know the built in charger would effectively charge the 4 batteries.
 
ChrisGarrett

ChrisGarrett

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
5,671
Location
Miami, Florida
Thanks for the reply. I will probably just use the protected 3100-3400 NCR18650 cells. I really do not use the turbo function enough worry about the voltage sag. This way, I know the built in charger would effectively charge the 4 batteries.

I'm just one guy, but I've been using protected EagleTac 3100s, naked Pannie 3100s and I recently bought some naked Sanyo 2600s to run in my SC-600 and Fenix PD32. I'm in a position where I can check often, the battery voltages, so it's not a big issue for me, but they work fine with a little attention to detail.

I've never felt the need to run out and buy IMR 18650 because of my specific lights, but I have bought a pair of AW IMR 16340s to run in my old V10R and now V11R, so IMR cells do have their place, but you're sacrificing a decent amount of 'capacity' by doing so.

I know the proper thing to do here, is err on the side of caution when giving advice to novices, but as toruk intimates, 'how' dangerous are these various chemistries if we're buying quality cells and not running them down to 0.0v and letting them sit for a month, before charging them up on a fake Zing-Fire charger?

Multi-cell lights, I get that things should be matched/balanced, as best as possible, but running things in a single cell light, as long as you've got good stuff, the risk factor is low, is my thought.

Chris
 
S

stoneboy

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
25
Hey guys,

I am actually looking for the information about Panasonic NCR18650PF. We wanted to use this in our product development. However, it seems not easy to get the information even on Panasonic's website. I was wondering does this battery actually exist?

I found a testing diagram on a website which is selling it. It claims the testing was done by HKJ from this forum. So I traced to this forum but have found nothing related. Then I figured that diagram was probably taken from this post and been modified in purpose.

Could someone help me to get the actual information about Panasonic NCR18650PF? Some say this is a NMC Lithium-Ion battery, is that true? Did HKJ have ever done test on this particular battery?

Thanks a lot in advance!
 
RI Chevy

RI Chevy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
3,600
Location
Ocean State
HKJ

HKJ

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
9,714
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Could someone help me to get the actual information about Panasonic NCR18650PF? Some say this is a NMC Lithium-Ion battery, is that true? Did HKJ have ever done test on this particular battery?

Look in the information box at the top, this is the PF cell, but the dealer has labelled it PD (This is based on information from the dealer).
 
Top