The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Status
Not open for further replies.

applevision

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
1,060
Location
Chicago, IL
Exactly... If I was a noob, this is the first thread I would come to to look for a light to buy... I would feel pretty bad if I made someone spend like $60 on a light that's pretty crappy without upgrading the lamp, and they had no clue this was the case. That said, if it said "6P with so and so dropin", you're setting them up to buy an awesome light and letting them know what they're getting in to.

Amen! And that is why I thought there was another section for modded lights on this thread. It doesn't seem like it's following the spirit of this thread at all to vote for a "shell" that folks modded... Perhaps an asterisk could be added to the 6P saying that it is a must-have since it can be modded so well?
 

JNewell

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
1,800
Location
Land of the Bean and the Cod
The whole SureFire thing actually offers a lot of scope for discussion (and disagreement?). Is a 6P with the P60 the same light as a 6P with a P61? Is a P60 the same as a P60L? What about in-line, undesignated changes in lights like the E1L? What about the bezel changes in the 6P that were noted above? :thinking: :confused:

Probably this is not the time or place to delve further into this... :)

I note that (IIRC) our bodies have a complete, 100% turnover every seven years...am I the same person I was seven years ago...? :D
 

Lucciola

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
205
Location
Germany
Tough one!

I absolutely love the Zebralight H501w and I'd never go hiking or camping without my Quark AA² tactical NW. And clearly there is never "THE" ideal light.

So when it comes down to the best compromise as an all purpose light, I'd decide for the

Nitecore D10 SP

Reasons: Three well chosen levels, good beam compromise between flood and throw, Nice user interface, mode memory, momentary on, size/output ratio just about perfect, good grip in the hand.

The low could be a bit lower to my taste and I would prefer the same beam tint as my NW Quark. But still I think the light would be more or less suitable for just about anything I can immagine needing it for.

But to be honest: Aren't we all very very happy that we do not have to decide for just one light? :twothumbs

Lucciola
 

RichS

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,509
Location
USA
Wow - this has been some very good, thought provoking discussion. I see both points of view, and after reading all the posts I found myself being pulled in both directions on this. So, I just sat back for a while and let it sink in...

Now that I have had ample time to let all the points sink in and think through it logically, here is the way we will approach this issue in this thread going forward.

First, we have to remember that SureFires are modular by design, which makes them very practical. They are made this way so they can easily be modded (adapted) to meet the needs of each specific situation. Add to this that they have rock solid components, and therefore become an after-market playground for hobbiests like us.

However, SureFire doesn't sell "hosts", they sell complete lights. So, even if you buy a 6P with the knowlege that you will "upgrade" it, you still choose to buy the whole light. In fact, it may even be a "must-have" whole light purchase for you simply because it can be easily and very simply modified with SureFire or other after-market components.

The fact is, the 6P is not the only light in this boat. The C2 is in the top 10 list, and I have never owned a C2 that I didn't put an after-market drop-in in. Same goes for the M6. How many votes for the M6 came from people (like me) who replaced all the guts because it improved the light?? The fact is, it was offered as a complete light, and I chose to buy it because of the rock solid nature and the fact that I can play with it and change it around. This mod-ability is a huge deciding factor to many of us light hobbiests, and is a big part of what makes some lights a "must-have" for us.

KEY POINT: This list is not the "average" consumer's must-have list, it is a Flashaholic's Must-Have list! Multiple lights on the list are modular and perfect for modding. This fact, combined with great ergonomics, reliability, etc. may play a role in someone casting a vote for it. The bottom line is, it is not expected that you will keep a light in it's stock form if you place a vote for it.

And please keep in mind, this issue isn't limited to SureFire. Many lights are made to be modular. So, would we have to move a vote for the DBS to the "hosts" section if someone decided to put a Thrunite pill in it?

Nope, we're not going down that road. However, in light of the many newer members and CPF visitors that visit this thread, I'll put a statement in the OP that states some lights are particularly popular due in large part to it being modular, and therefore easy to modify.

Thanks for bringing up the discussion, and for the excellent debate that helped to arrive at the decision! :thumbsup:
 

mefistofele86

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
129
Location
Italy, near Milan
For me:
-Fenix E01, a very usefull little light
-Fenix LD20 (i have R4 version)
-Jetbeam M1X (i have the two-stage reflector V4) as a powerfull flashlight, with this baby i can program a level and i can turn on at the desidered level (max-other). It's very powerfull and with 2x18500 is compact (for its category) and it has a good runtime. I love M1X
 

AlphaZen

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
507
Location
Bloomington, IN
I would like to add a vote for the NiteCore D10. I received a Tribute edition over the weekend from a fellow member in the Marketplace and can see why it is held in such high regard. I will be adding a green trit in the tail button.
 
Last edited:

NiteShift

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
30
Despite my own personal feelings towards the Nitecore D10, objectively speaking it gets my vote too. It really does tick all the boxes. I also just realized you can do momentary-on in any light setting, you just don't fully press in the clicky... I've only had it a year.. :ohgeez: :ohgeez: :ohgeez:
 

jellydonut

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
995
Location
Europe
If we have a consensus that most of the votes for the 6P are for the 6P as a host, and not the turnkey 6P light, then shouldn't this facilitate some changes?

There are some lights in the 'Hosts' section that are arguably more turnkey than the 6P hosts and variants people have in mind when voting for it. For instance I would wager 99% of the Malkoff MD2s out there have a Malkoff module in them, making them the same as the Malkoff MD2 turnkey lights Gene sells.

Or am I out of line?:green:
 

bluepilgrim

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
342
Location
illinois
The D10 is definitely NOT on my must-have list. First I find the interface rather confusing with all the ways of controlling it and not being able to remember them all instantly -- and when I want light, I want instantly. Second, in the twist off position when I try to use momentary on it keeps switching from low to high after a moment. Also, the ramp-up is way too fast to be useful.

Others may like it, but for me the primary thing is it doesn't do anything that some other lights do -- like my Zebralight sc50 (and an H51 if/when I get one). That means it's not must-have.

More must-have, at this point is the little Black&Decker 2aa clip light from Walmart for $10, with some 60 lumens, and which has been running on the same pair of cheap zinc chloride cells for many weeks -- this is the one that is light weight and sits in my pocket, but is big enough I can always grab it instantly without fishing around -- the only problem is the forward clickie switch is a bit too recessed to easily click on for contant light. I even bought a spare because I felt I 'must have' one of these. This is the one I use a good 10 times more than any other around the house.
Similar, which I use outdoors with it in my mouth, is the little reverse clicky Rayovac $2.88 penlight from Walmart (modded by taking out the lens and putting in a foil reflector, but that's not critical).

No, neither one is real bright -- and I have other lights I carry for that, but which are way too bright for up-close things, like pouring coffee into a cup (which I do dozens of times a day) -- but these are the ones I always end up using, they are so convenient, so these are the ones I would *immediately* replace if lost or broken.

If I was outdoors more then a bright light would be more must-have, but I would tend to go more with a Romisen and have some spares for back-ups because they work well but are cheap enough to have several spares. To me, must-have means you must-have spares so you are never without a functioning light -- like for a car, tires are must-have, so you have a spare tire.

How one defines 'must-have' changes what you select for that category. A D10 is must-have if you are building a representative collection of lights for this time period -- and so are some other terrible lights which don't work well but deserve place in the 'museum', such as a ubiquitous cheap hardware store 2D incandescent or button cell keychain light. (Gee, great grampa -- people really used to buy those things?)

Edit: Well ..... I just saw the Zebralight h51 (200 lumens max with an aa, and 6 levels) is back in stock, and I just ordered one. I guess sometimes one must have a thing of great beauty.
 
Last edited:

wyager

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,114
I note that (IIRC) our bodies have a complete, 100% turnover every seven years...am I the same person I was seven years ago...? :D

If you care to follow aristotle's definition, your function has not changed, so you are the same person. A 6P with a replacement standard 6P tailcap is still the same light-a 6P with a titanium tailcap is a different light.

Despite my own personal feelings towards the Nitecore D10, objectively speaking it gets my vote too. It really does tick all the boxes. I also just realized you can do momentary-on in any light setting, you just don't fully press in the clicky... I've only had it a year.. :ohgeez: :ohgeez: :ohgeez:

THANK YOU! I NEVER would have figured that out if I didn't see this post.

The D10 is definitely NOT on my must-have list. First I find the interface rather confusing with all the ways of controlling it and not being able to remember them all instantly -- and when I want light, I want instantly. Second, in the twist off position when I try to use momentary on it keeps switching from low to high after a moment. Also, the ramp-up is way too fast to be useful.

For your first point, I disagree. The double click/click hold system is very efficient. Second, as I just learned, you CAN do momentary in ANY mode! See the quoted post above yours in my post.

Also, I agree about the ramp-up.
 
Last edited:

bluepilgrim

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
342
Location
illinois
"For your first point, I disagree. The double click/click hold system is very efficient. Second, as I just learned, you CAN do momentary in ANY mode! See the quoted post above yours in my post."

I won't say it's not efficient; put it down to an aging brain, maybe, but I can't remember how it works if I haven't used it for a while, and while I can get about thelight level I want ramping down I can't when ramping up. It seems counterintuitive and persnickity to me -- I have to struggle with it. As I said, though, some people DO like it a lot.

I'm still waiting to see someone come out with a side sliding switch to give different levels, like a sliding volume control. (Hint, hint, to manufactureres.)

As to the question of whether a thing is the same after parts being replaced, I'd say that 'identity' is a matter of mind and thought -- and perception. If you can't tell the difference than a thing is effectively the same as it always was (or identical to something else, like two eggs might not be the same, but if you lay them on the counter and then can't tell which you put where, they are, effectively, the same thing).

As such, if a light has been modded so it works differently, then thay may be similar, or variations, but not identical. If you replace a bulb, cell, switch, etc., and can't tell any difference, then it's the same light: while playing with the idea of some 'invisible essence' might be fun, it doesn't count for anything in practice. You can argue that a thing is different than it was a millisecond before, since the quantum states and positions of atos and such have moved, but that defeats the concept of 'identity', which is an idea concerning continuity over time and space. Hence, my criteria for a thing maintaining identity is 'how could you -- can you -- tell the difference?'.
 

JNewell

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
1,800
Location
Land of the Bean and the Cod
Rich, I just read that twice. Honestly, it shows a lot of thought and judgment. King Solomon could probably not have done better. Thanks! :thumbsup:

Wow - this has been some very good, thought provoking discussion. I see both points of view, and after reading all the posts I found myself being pulled in both directions on this. So, I just sat back for a while and let it sink in...

Now that I have had ample time to let all the points sink in and think through it logically, here is the way we will approach this issue in this thread going forward.

First, we have to remember that SureFires are modular by design, which makes them very practical. They are made this way so they can easily be modded (adapted) to meet the needs of each specific situation. Add to this that they have rock solid components, and therefore become an after-market playground for hobbiests like us.

However, SureFire doesn't sell "hosts", they sell complete lights. So, even if you buy a 6P with the knowlege that you will "upgrade" it, you still choose to buy the whole light. In fact, it may even be a "must-have" whole light purchase for you simply because it can be easily and very simply modified with SureFire or other after-market components.

The fact is, the 6P is not the only light in this boat. The C2 is in the top 10 list, and I have never owned a C2 that I didn't put an after-market drop-in in. Same goes for the M6. How many votes for the M6 came from people (like me) who replaced all the guts because it improved the light?? The fact is, it was offered as a complete light, and I chose to buy it because of the rock solid nature and the fact that I can play with it and change it around. This mod-ability is a huge deciding factor to many of us light hobbiests, and is a big part of what makes some lights a "must-have" for us.

KEY POINT: This list is not the "average" consumer's must-have list, it is a Flashaholic's Must-Have list! Multiple lights on the list are modular and perfect for modding. This fact, combined with great ergonomics, reliability, etc. may play a role in someone casting a vote for it. The bottom line is, it is not expected that you will keep a light in it's stock form if you place a vote for it.

And please keep in mind, this issue isn't limited to SureFire. Many lights are made to be modular. So, would we have to move a vote for the DBS to the "hosts" section if someone decided to put a Thrunite pill in it?

Nope, we're not going down that road. However, in light of the many newer members and CPF visitors that visit this thread, I'll put a statement in the OP that states some lights are particularly popular due in large part to it being modular, and therefore easy to modify.

Thanks for bringing up the discussion, and for the excellent debate that helped to arrive at the decision! :thumbsup:
 

JNewell

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
1,800
Location
Land of the Bean and the Cod
If you care to follow aristotle's definition, your function has not changed, so you are the same person. A 6P with a replacement standard 6P tailcap is still the same light-a 6P with a titanium tailcap is a different light.

On the contrary, the function of the light with a titanium tailcap is completely the same. If this were not the case, we'd have to say that people with hip replacements (for example) are no longer the same person.
 

wyager

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,114
On the contrary, the function of the light with a titanium tailcap is completely the same. If this were not the case, we'd have to say that people with hip replacements (for example) are no longer the same person.

Hip replacements are intended to emulate a hip as closely as possible. This is NOT the case with any light upgrade. If the person got, say, a motorized cyborg replacement limb intended as an upgrade rather than a replacement, then they are indeed a different person (according to aristotle).

A hip replacement does not change intended function. A replacement surefire bulb does not change intended function.

A cyborg limb changes intended function. An LED dropin clearly changes intended function.

That's not to say that it makes the light perform a different task, rather it changes the inherent way the light works. Nonetheless, it's a different light.
I could think up dozens of examples where it's nothing more than stupid to call a product the same name after any kind of upgrade.
 

JNewell

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
1,800
Location
Land of the Bean and the Cod
Hip replacements are intended to emulate a hip as closely as possible. This is NOT the case with any light upgrade. If the person got, say, a motorized cyborg replacement limb intended as an upgrade rather than a replacement, then they are indeed a different person (according to aristotle).

A hip replacement does not change intended function. A replacement surefire bulb does not change intended function.

A cyborg limb changes intended function. An LED dropin clearly changes intended function.

That's not to say that it makes the light perform a different task, rather it changes the inherent way the light works. Nonetheless, it's a different light.
I could think up dozens of examples where it's nothing more than stupid to call a product the same name after any kind of upgrade.

I'm not seeing how replacing an aluminum part with a titanium part that performs an identical function changed the intended function of the light. If anything, that test might suggest that SureFire created a new product when it upgraded and redesigned the tailcaps on these lights several years ago.
 

wyager

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,114
I'm not seeing how replacing an aluminum part with a titanium part that performs an identical function changed the intended function of the light. If anything, that test might suggest that SureFire created a new product when it upgraded and redesigned the tailcaps on these lights several years ago.

Yes, it might. Take, for example, the nitecore D10. There are many models, and people MAKE SURE you know which model they are talking about. R2 ramping, Q5 SP, etc.. Surefires should be treated no differently if there is a real distinction between models that changed function.
 

RichS

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,509
Location
USA
Ok, I've beat some dead horses in my time, but this one is now unrecognizable...

:dedhorse:


The approach this thread will take in this regard, and the logic behind it, is stated in this post. Let's move on please...
 
Last edited:

CoachV

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
26
Location
El Paso, Texas
See what you all did? With all this comments about the Nitecore D10, I'm now going to have to buy one to see what all the fuss is about! (Maybe the special edition camaflouge one) :D
 

Mr. Shawn

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
254
Location
Lake St. Louis, MO
See what you all did? With all this comments about the Nitecore D10, I'm now going to have to buy one to see what all the fuss is about! (Maybe the special edition camaflouge one) :D

But you won't understand what all the fuss is about with the SP version (which is one of the versions offered in camo) of the D10; that will require a ramping D10, be it Q5, GD+, R2, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top