PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, I bought one of them. The main attraction for me is the regulated output. Time will tell if my decision was wise. If not, I guess it'll be up for sale again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Undecided on the SureFire A2
- Thread starter this_is_nascar
- Start date
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Now that was fast. My A2 arrived from this_is_nascar yesterday while I was out of town. I pulled in to the drive, got the mail, unpacked the A2, fired it up, and immediately began testing. I forgot that I was very hungry.
A Mini-Review
Nascar did some informative tests on his A2s, and I really appreciate his work. He answered a lot of questions one might have about the light. I wanted to build on this and seek answers to some additional questions.
Beam Pattern and Rings
The first thing I looked for was the “blackened corona” that nascar found annoying. Sure enough. There it was. But when I put my eyeball in the light beam (the corona, of course), I found that this unusual feature is not a dark ring in the corona, but an additional bright ring around the very edge that other Surefires don’t have. It’s all in how you look at it -- two schools of thought, so to speak. And the cause of the outer bright ring is the shape of the bulb itself. SFs have a frosted bulb tip which apparently deflects the light somehow. This frosted section on the A2’s bulb doesn’t extend into the reflector as far as on other SFs, and thus some of the light from the filament directly shines out into the outer ring. When the light is off, looking over the edge of the bezel into the bulb, I can see the filament. I can’t do this on my other SFs. So, now I think of the beam pattern as having an extra bright ring.
I compared the A2 to my M3 (with HOLA & turbo head) and found the inner beam pattern very much the same. The two distinctions between them are that the A2 is dimmer, and that it has that bright ring. But the center beam width appears to be approximately the same -- same subtended angle, same spot size. I’m amazed to see this performance from such a small reflector.
The A2 beam on the wall has an easily identified bright outer ring. But when I carry the light into a dark room or outside, I’m not aware of the ring. I am aware of a large circle of light around the center beam, and I don’t find it at all disturbing.
LED Light Level Tests
I wanted to answer a question I had had for some time. It was, “How much do the LED light levels fall off during the life of the incandescents?” This is important to me because, while an incandescent’s light level plateaus and then falls off faster, an LED’s level has no plateau unless there’s regulation or there’s a relatively large resistance in series with the LED.
With a fresh set of batteries, the LEDs measured 41.6 lux (at a meter). With batteries that had been well used in my E2e, I measured 41.3 lux, a difference of about 1 percent, less than measurement error. I then switched on the incandescent bulb. It ran for a little under 5 minutes before switching itself to dim. I then switched back to the LEDs only. They were now putting out 36.8 lux.
Conclusions
That’s what I wanted to know! From the beginning with fresh batteries, there is no easily detected drop in intensity in the first 37 minutes of run time. After the batteries are no longer able to maintain the incandescent bulb at full brightness (nascar measured the total incandescent run time at 42 minutes), the level drops about 12 per cent.
Comparison With Arc AAA Limited Edition
I compared the fresh battery level of the A2 (at 41.6 lux) to the Arc LE at 21.2 lux. Twice as bright. That seems reasonable.
As far as I can tell the patterns and colors are about the same. Both have a bluish center, becoming more white in the corona. This was at a distance. But up close, the A2 beam has a bit of texture due to the fact that there are three LEDs. It results in a wider, triangular-shaped center beam – perhaps twice as wide as the Arc LE’s. This ought to make reading maps in the car and menus in dark restaurants much easier than with the narrower beam of the LE.
Will I Keep It?
I really like this little light. It fits very easily into my pocket. It says, “Take me with you -- everywhere.”
If I had received it before going on my trip, I would have purposely waited to leave until after dark just so that I could read things while driving . . . and perhaps stop every 20 miles or so and check the tires. Somehow, as I walk around the house this evening, I just can’t lay it down. It wants to stay in my hand.
We’ll see if this love affair has any future. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
A Mini-Review
Nascar did some informative tests on his A2s, and I really appreciate his work. He answered a lot of questions one might have about the light. I wanted to build on this and seek answers to some additional questions.
Beam Pattern and Rings
The first thing I looked for was the “blackened corona” that nascar found annoying. Sure enough. There it was. But when I put my eyeball in the light beam (the corona, of course), I found that this unusual feature is not a dark ring in the corona, but an additional bright ring around the very edge that other Surefires don’t have. It’s all in how you look at it -- two schools of thought, so to speak. And the cause of the outer bright ring is the shape of the bulb itself. SFs have a frosted bulb tip which apparently deflects the light somehow. This frosted section on the A2’s bulb doesn’t extend into the reflector as far as on other SFs, and thus some of the light from the filament directly shines out into the outer ring. When the light is off, looking over the edge of the bezel into the bulb, I can see the filament. I can’t do this on my other SFs. So, now I think of the beam pattern as having an extra bright ring.
I compared the A2 to my M3 (with HOLA & turbo head) and found the inner beam pattern very much the same. The two distinctions between them are that the A2 is dimmer, and that it has that bright ring. But the center beam width appears to be approximately the same -- same subtended angle, same spot size. I’m amazed to see this performance from such a small reflector.
The A2 beam on the wall has an easily identified bright outer ring. But when I carry the light into a dark room or outside, I’m not aware of the ring. I am aware of a large circle of light around the center beam, and I don’t find it at all disturbing.
LED Light Level Tests
I wanted to answer a question I had had for some time. It was, “How much do the LED light levels fall off during the life of the incandescents?” This is important to me because, while an incandescent’s light level plateaus and then falls off faster, an LED’s level has no plateau unless there’s regulation or there’s a relatively large resistance in series with the LED.
With a fresh set of batteries, the LEDs measured 41.6 lux (at a meter). With batteries that had been well used in my E2e, I measured 41.3 lux, a difference of about 1 percent, less than measurement error. I then switched on the incandescent bulb. It ran for a little under 5 minutes before switching itself to dim. I then switched back to the LEDs only. They were now putting out 36.8 lux.
Conclusions
That’s what I wanted to know! From the beginning with fresh batteries, there is no easily detected drop in intensity in the first 37 minutes of run time. After the batteries are no longer able to maintain the incandescent bulb at full brightness (nascar measured the total incandescent run time at 42 minutes), the level drops about 12 per cent.
Comparison With Arc AAA Limited Edition
I compared the fresh battery level of the A2 (at 41.6 lux) to the Arc LE at 21.2 lux. Twice as bright. That seems reasonable.
As far as I can tell the patterns and colors are about the same. Both have a bluish center, becoming more white in the corona. This was at a distance. But up close, the A2 beam has a bit of texture due to the fact that there are three LEDs. It results in a wider, triangular-shaped center beam – perhaps twice as wide as the Arc LE’s. This ought to make reading maps in the car and menus in dark restaurants much easier than with the narrower beam of the LE.
Will I Keep It?
I really like this little light. It fits very easily into my pocket. It says, “Take me with you -- everywhere.”
If I had received it before going on my trip, I would have purposely waited to leave until after dark just so that I could read things while driving . . . and perhaps stop every 20 miles or so and check the tires. Somehow, as I walk around the house this evening, I just can’t lay it down. It wants to stay in my hand.
We’ll see if this love affair has any future. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Nice write-up Paul. I'm glad you like the A2. It deserved a good home.
PieThatCorner
Enlightened
Paul - excellent job... the A2 is definitely not for everyone. But you said it very well in that "It’s all in how you look at it -- two schools of thought, so to speak." - And that's exactly what I agree upon...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
-Jim
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
-Jim
FlashlightOCD
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
Paul_W said:
I pulled in to the drive, got the mail, unpacked the A2, fired it up, and immediately began testing. I forgot that I was very hungry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, It is well known that true addicts will skip food in favor of getting a "fix". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Paul_W said:
I pulled in to the drive, got the mail, unpacked the A2, fired it up, and immediately began testing. I forgot that I was very hungry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, It is well known that true addicts will skip food in favor of getting a "fix". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm baaaaaaaaaack.......... with A2-white, in hand.
tsg68
Flashlight Enthusiast
AGAIN, man Nascar you are really on the fence about this light. What have you got for us tonight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I really want to learn to like and appreciate this like for a couple reasons. Primarily for the regulation aspect and secondly for the usefull built-in LED function. I'm going to do something differently that I didn't really do the last two or three times (sorry, I lost count). I'm acutally going to carry the A2 and use it. When I say use it, I mean for all my lighting needs, not just shining it on a wall in the house or lighting up the back yard at night. I mean, really use the light. My son also does a part-time security gig where he uses a flashlight all the time. He's been using one of my E2's. He saw me playing with this outside tonight in the rain and wants to use it a couple times at work. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle that.... giving him a light that's worth more than a couple week's worth of paychecks for him.
tsg68
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think with what you spent, maybe you should do your testing on your perceptions before giving your son the light. After you have figured it out lend him the light if you want.
Just my 2 candelas!
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just my 2 candelas!
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
FC.
Flashlight Enthusiast
A2 is too big for EDC. Now if LEDs would be removed, along with two-stage tailcap...
I don't use LEDs at all, it is just a major pain in the *** for me.
Regulated "normal" bulb is great, I just wish C2D would be released first.
I don't use LEDs at all, it is just a major pain in the *** for me.
Regulated "normal" bulb is great, I just wish C2D would be released first.
I think the main problem with the A2 is that it's primary claims to fame just aren't that apparent when you play with the thing. I've had mine for a while, and I will definitely keep and use it, but it definitely doesn't give the same sort of 'tingle' in the hand that the E2e does.
The regulation isn't apparent until you use the light quite a bit. The size suggests it should be brighter, not a bit dimmer, than the smaller light. The tail switch, by necessity more complicated, doesn't thread as firmly or solidly as the simpler one on the E2e because of all the positions you can put it in, and the switch itself requires more travel to activate. When it's locked out it is less engaged than on the E2e, furthering the feeling of looseness. By comparison, all of this tends to make the light feel less...I don't know, surefirey? than the E2e.
I can see where a person would hedge on this light, especially if size was really important.
I think the key to enjoying it though, at least for me, is to not compare it to the E2e but to consider it's strengths separately. It is larger, but it feels better in the hand for me - more like a flashlight and less like a novelty. The switch requires more travel, but that makes it less necessary to lock it out. The low beam can be left on with out hearing that cash register ca-chinging in the background, and is bright enough for the kinds of things you generally do when you just want to leave the thing on. Camping with just the E2e I'd want to bring a beamshaper, and I'd think two or three times before turning it on in a tent late at night (and be prepared to cover my ears afterward). With the A2 I won't have to worry.
While my L1 does provide two useful levels of brightness, neither one of them has the brightness or throw of an incan. The A2's low beam is bright enough to walk by in most circumstances, where the L1's isn't. The L1's high beam is more than bright enough, but it doesn't reach very far and it isn't getting any brighter. The run time of both low beams is probably about the same in practice, although I haven't run either of them out to see.
Anyway, the E2e doesn't have a low beam, and when it's on I tend to have the same feeling I did when talking on my first cellphone - at $.35 or more a minute. I think the E2e is very cool, and so is the A2, if you don't try to think of it as an E2e with extras.
The regulation isn't apparent until you use the light quite a bit. The size suggests it should be brighter, not a bit dimmer, than the smaller light. The tail switch, by necessity more complicated, doesn't thread as firmly or solidly as the simpler one on the E2e because of all the positions you can put it in, and the switch itself requires more travel to activate. When it's locked out it is less engaged than on the E2e, furthering the feeling of looseness. By comparison, all of this tends to make the light feel less...I don't know, surefirey? than the E2e.
I can see where a person would hedge on this light, especially if size was really important.
I think the key to enjoying it though, at least for me, is to not compare it to the E2e but to consider it's strengths separately. It is larger, but it feels better in the hand for me - more like a flashlight and less like a novelty. The switch requires more travel, but that makes it less necessary to lock it out. The low beam can be left on with out hearing that cash register ca-chinging in the background, and is bright enough for the kinds of things you generally do when you just want to leave the thing on. Camping with just the E2e I'd want to bring a beamshaper, and I'd think two or three times before turning it on in a tent late at night (and be prepared to cover my ears afterward). With the A2 I won't have to worry.
While my L1 does provide two useful levels of brightness, neither one of them has the brightness or throw of an incan. The A2's low beam is bright enough to walk by in most circumstances, where the L1's isn't. The L1's high beam is more than bright enough, but it doesn't reach very far and it isn't getting any brighter. The run time of both low beams is probably about the same in practice, although I haven't run either of them out to see.
Anyway, the E2e doesn't have a low beam, and when it's on I tend to have the same feeling I did when talking on my first cellphone - at $.35 or more a minute. I think the E2e is very cool, and so is the A2, if you don't try to think of it as an E2e with extras.
tsg68
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think that was a pretty down to earth review there Steve and a primary reason that this light offers controversy here. I think to the technologically versed it represents a step forward in the evolution of some of it's features, but to the average user the drawbacks are more apparent than the benefits especially to those who can EDC two much less expensive lights or one moderate purpose light like an LSH.
I think the real breaker though is the price, it really throws the average user into a whirl to see they spent this much money on what is basically an experimental light released into the market at great expense that may cover their lighting needs in a merely adequate but rather non-spectacular manner. While on the other side of the coin the techno crowd thinks about the grand technology and design that went into it's development every time they light it up and go into fits of orgasmic pleasure.
Both sides will disagree but both have valid points. I am on the fully functional user end of this and want some bang for the buck. I believe maybe they should have released it at a lower price or not released it at all until it had some bang to back up the bucks but have seen this type of action before and believe it is what happens when creators lock themselves up with their creations and lose touch with their consumer market. Others will disagree of course and that is their opinion. I think some times they jump the gun to remain on top of the market or compete. The KL's 1, 2, 3, were barely out of the gate and they were showing off the development of the 4,5,6,7
Thanks for the review it provoked some thought that produced the above opinion.
Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I think the real breaker though is the price, it really throws the average user into a whirl to see they spent this much money on what is basically an experimental light released into the market at great expense that may cover their lighting needs in a merely adequate but rather non-spectacular manner. While on the other side of the coin the techno crowd thinks about the grand technology and design that went into it's development every time they light it up and go into fits of orgasmic pleasure.
Both sides will disagree but both have valid points. I am on the fully functional user end of this and want some bang for the buck. I believe maybe they should have released it at a lower price or not released it at all until it had some bang to back up the bucks but have seen this type of action before and believe it is what happens when creators lock themselves up with their creations and lose touch with their consumer market. Others will disagree of course and that is their opinion. I think some times they jump the gun to remain on top of the market or compete. The KL's 1, 2, 3, were barely out of the gate and they were showing off the development of the 4,5,6,7
Thanks for the review it provoked some thought that produced the above opinion.
Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
i just got an L1 and i must say i like the two-stage switch a lot! i agree the low beam is too dim, but the high beam is fine, though it still offers less runtime than the arc LSH /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have one of Nascar's other A2-Whites. I love it. I can second the feelings of SteveD: I don't feel as guilty using the A2 as I do the E2. I like the contrast between the low and high beams.
What I'm really waiting for is the L2, and hoping it will be a 2 or 5w equivalent to the A2. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
What I'm really waiting for is the L2, and hoping it will be a 2 or 5w equivalent to the A2. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
And I got the other white A2.
I have the same guilt about using the E2e, especially after getting the 120 lumen mod. Bright! I'm very careful about using the batteries -- 13 cents per minute. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have the same guilt about using the E2e, especially after getting the 120 lumen mod. Bright! I'm very careful about using the batteries -- 13 cents per minute. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The surefires have a great switch for proper use: momentary. The DSpeck UBH/"E3" was the first light I wasn't afraid to leave on constantly, because it can eat 2xAAs. I wouldn't be afraid to leave my A2 on LED all night either.
It's not so much the *cost* of the batteries, but the fact they may be half-empty when I need them. I use the UBH+NiMH for almost every lighting task because I can recharge the cells. My other "working" light is a PT Aurora with NiMH. No guilt in leaving them on, since a few hours in the charger and the cells are refilled.
It's not so much the *cost* of the batteries, but the fact they may be half-empty when I need them. I use the UBH+NiMH for almost every lighting task because I can recharge the cells. My other "working" light is a PT Aurora with NiMH. No guilt in leaving them on, since a few hours in the charger and the cells are refilled.
Well, I've decided it was time for an update. I've been spending some serious time with the A2. I do need some suggestions on how to carry this. I've been trying to EDC the A2, but it's certainly a challenge.
After spending some useful time with the A2, I can certainly see how one would appreciate the regulation. It's funny how you don't notice the run-down of the E2E, unless you have an A2 to compare it to. Not judging on price, runtime or size the regulation factor does have something to say about the A2.
After spending some useful time with the A2, I can certainly see how one would appreciate the regulation. It's funny how you don't notice the run-down of the E2E, unless you have an A2 to compare it to. Not judging on price, runtime or size the regulation factor does have something to say about the A2.
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Carrying it:
How about vertically in a rear pocket, next to your wallet?
How about vertically in a rear pocket, next to your wallet?
I've been trying that, however the bezel sticks up a bit more than I like. That's about the most comfortable place I have found so far. I don't care for carrying it clipped in my front pocket.
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Does anybody make an ankle holster? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
