Under-driving/ Over-driving HID bulbs

[D-Dog]

I know under-driving will increase the color temp whereas over-driving will decrease the temp, however, how is lamp life and efficiency affected. Also, how do ballasts with more than one output watttage (10/24 for example) work? Thanks :-)

 

[XeRay]

I know under-driving will increase the color temp whereas over-driving will decrease the temp, however, how is lamp life and efficiency affected. Also, how do ballasts with more than one output watttage (10/24 for example) work? Thanks :-)

Cant speak for low wattage stuff but 35/50 and so on I can. A high quality GE, Philips or Osram 35 watt rated bulb is more efficient (lumens/watt) when pushed higher. At 35 watts the bulb produces 91 lumens per watt, driven at 50 watts efficiency is 105-110 lumens per watt.

Life at 50 watts is reduced by about 35% compared to 35 watts. 2000 hours instead of the normal 3000 hour 35 watt bulb life.

Not sure how to answer the dual wattage question without more clarification from you as to what you want to know about it.

 

[D-Dog]

Not sure how to answer the dual wattage question without more clarification from you as to what you want to know about it.

Just how a dual output ballast works. Another more familiar example would be the maxabeam. You can select different settings which will output various amounts of light.

Obviously the arc must be maintained for light to still come out :-P, however, does less amperage flows through it making it dimmer?

Also, what are bulbs like the ones in the maxabeam rated at, the highest power or the lowest. In other words, are you overdriving the bulb if you run it on high or underdriving it if you run it on low?

 

[SemiMan]

Just how a dual output ballast works. Another more familiar example would be the maxabeam. You can select different settings which will output various amounts of light.

Obviously the arc must be maintained for light to still come out :-P, however, does less amperage flows through it making it dimmer?

Also, what are bulbs like the ones in the maxabeam rated at, the highest power or the lowest. In other words, are you overdriving the bulb if you run it on high or underdriving it if you run it on low?

Essentially a HID ballast is a constant current driver (usually with some voltage feedback as well). There is a high initial voltage to start the arc, but once the arc is started, you have to control the current. Variable output ballasts adjust the current/voltage.

Semiman

 

[XeRay]

Just how a dual output ballast works. Another more familiar example would be the maxabeam. You can select different settings which will output various amounts of light.

Obviously the arc must be maintained for light to still come out :-P, however, does less amperage flows through it making it dimmer?

Also, what are bulbs like the ones in the maxabeam rated at, the highest power or the lowest. In other words, are you overdriving the bulb if you run it on high or underdriving it if you run it on low?

A 35 watt HID bulb should not be operated under 28 watts for a reasonable life. 30 watts is much prefered for a minimum. We use 30 watts minimum on 35 watt bulbs. Our dual wattage ballasts are 30/50, 35/50

Uverdriving or underdriving the bulb depends on what wattage the bulb design was optimized for.

 

[D-Dog]

A 35 watt HID bulb should not be operated under 28 watts for a reasonable life. 30 watts is much prefered for a minimum. We use 30 watts minimum on 35 watt bulbs. Our dual wattage ballasts are 30/50, 35/50

Uverdriving or underdriving the bulb depends on what wattage the bulb design was optimized for.

Ok, so there is a finite limit for how low bulbs can go too than.

The reason I ask is because the Shark I by Wolf Eyes has always intrigued me how you can run it at 10 or 24 watts. Evidently it uses a 24 watt bulb, as it uses the same as the boxer 24watt.

I know you do not work with as low wattage, however, would you say the life of a 24 watt bulb would be greater at 24 or 10 watts. I'm thinking 24 as that was what it was desined for.

But than 10 to 24 watts is a rather large jump.... I wonder how much life you lose running a 10watts... guess it would be like running a DL-50 at 35 watts.

 

[XeRay]

Ok, so there is a finite limit for how low bulbs can go too than.

The reason I ask is because the Shark I by Wolf Eyes has always intrigued me how you can run it at 10 or 24 watts. Evidently it uses a 24 watt bulb, as it uses the same as the boxer 24watt.

I know you do not work with as low wattage, however, would you say the life of a 24 watt bulb would be greater at 24 or 10 watts. I'm thinking 24 as that was what it was desined for.

But than 10 to 24 watts is a rather large jump.... I wonder how much life you lose running a 10watts... guess it would be like running a DL-50 at 35 watts.

That product is also likely DC to the bulb as is most low wattage 10-30 watt HID. Most other HID of the types we discuss here are AC to the bulb after the initial start cycle. As for the 10/24 watt question it depends on what wattage the bulb was really designed for, I bet it was for 20 watts and they underdrive it too much at 10 watt and minimally overdrive at 24 watt. Does the bulb flicker more at 10 watt usage or go out easily if bumped (shocked) or shaken etc. these would be indications that the underdrive is too low. If so as the bulb ages (electrode gap widens) the light will have difficulty keeping the arc going after starting. In this case the bulb would still likely work at the 24 watt setting. If this is the case the bulb will need to be replaced in order to use the lower setting.

 

[D-Dog]

That product is also likely DC to the bulb as is most low wattage 10-30 watt HID. Most other HID of the types we discuss here are AC to the bulb after the initial start cycle. As for the 10/24 watt question it depends on what wattage the bulb was really designed for, I bet it was for 20 watts and they underdrive it too much at 10 watt and minimally overdrive at 24 watt. Does the bulb flicker more at 10 watt usage or go out easily if bumped (shocked) or shaken etc. these would be indications that the underdrive is too low. If so as the bulb ages (electrode gap widens) the light will have difficulty keeping the arc going after starting. In this case the bulb would still likely work at the 24 watt setting. If this is the case the bulb will need to be replaced in order to use the lower setting.

I can tell you this much:cool: At 10 watts the beam becomes noticeably more blue, around 7-8k, vs around 5k(assuming my x990 was 4300k to compare) at 24watts (which would suggest minimal overdrive), however, it does not flicker noticeably and the arc has had no trouble staying lit at 10 watts. I just bought it yesterday and it's going below 0 tonight, so I've only had about an hour so far of hands-on experience with it (last night). I could have gone for a 35 or 50 watt, however, I'm currently a college student and I just don't see the point. Besides the finances (it cost me what will be 3 weeks of pay for this one :-P) running this at 10 watts is already brighter than almost every flashlight (excluding other HID's and some incan mods), and 24 watts puts it on par with a car headlight... any more and I would attract too much attention :-P I had an x990 in the past and it was bright... really bright, however, this one isn't much bluer... which is good (at 24watts), and is way brighter at 24 than I currently need. Even when I go back home, I live in a suburban community where a powerful light would only likely attract police attention. I envy those who can freely use their lights :-P

 

[Patriot]

I'd be very surprise if the Shark was producing a 5000K beam at 24W. Usually, all the Microfire, WE, and even AE lights are firmly in the 6000K range. I know that my X990 beam looked yellow compared to my 24W Boxer, which is far more than an 800 point spread. More like a 2000K spread.

 

[D-Dog]

I am not discounting what you are saying as I'm sure it is true, however, Mike at PTS has tested Xenides (5000k claim) and sharks side by side It was concluded that the shark on average has lower color temperature when driven at 24 watts. This would in effect mean either the shark really is close to 5k at 24 watts or AE is lying about their color output. Of the two, I find the first a much more reasonable assumption, as AE has a great track record and produces quality products. Maybe PTS just got lucky and this batch of lights runs warmer than average :-)

Edit: On 10 watts, it is a different story all together... the beam is at least 7000k... probably closer to 8 or even 9

 

[Patriot]

Mike at PTS has tested Xenides (5000k claim) and sharks side by side It was concluded that the shark on average has lower color temperature when driven at 24 watts. This would in effect mean either the shark really is close to 5k at 24 watts or AE is lying about their color output. Of the two, I find the first a much more reasonable assumption, as AE has a great track record and produces quality products. Maybe PTS just got lucky and this batch of lights runs warmer than average :-)

If I understood you correctly Mike is suggesting that the Xenides are claiming 5000K but I haven't seen that claim yet. Last I checked they listed both the Powerlights and Xenides at 6500K plus or minus.

http://www.aelight.com/product.php?category=11&id=19

The warmest AE light that I own is the 25W which is very slightly warmer than my PL24/S but it's a very slight difference. I would compare the 25W's color to the 24W Boxer that I owned.....which was barely warmer than my PL24/S but far cooler than my X990.


Here are a few examples from thread that Lips posted a while back.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=210032

I just haven't seen any lights in the low 5000K range other than the beam pictures of BVH's Blackhawk Locator beam....which appearently is very unique in the HID world.

EDIT
There are pictures of it here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=198645&highlight=shootout

 

[D-Dog]

Nevermind... I see Mike has switched the color temp rating to 6000k for the shark which is probably closer to being correct. Before I put words in his mouth, Mike never said the xenides were 5000k, I remember reading that somewhere on here.... and thus that was my error, not his. All he said was that in a direct comparison the shark had a warmer color temp. Perhaps the shark is really 6k at 24 watts while the xenide is really 6500 or 7000 :-)