Underbody Lighting Question

[Diesel_Bomber]

In general I have a serious loathing for all things ricer. Fart can mufflers, K&N filters, body kits, wings on cars that don't need them, chopped springs, blue headlight bulbs, non-functional air intakes, etc. etc. They can keep all that garbage.

However, I really like the idea of underbody lighting; I just think it's neat. Obviously blue/green/purple/etc are illegal, but what about amber/orange on the front and sides, and red in the back? I live in the USA and my state statutes don't specifically forbid such a thing, just the use of illegal colors. The two LEO's I've asked just gave me the canned response "no you can't do that" but couldn't tell me what they could charge me with if I did. I wouldn't make the underbody lighting flash or anything, just steady on.

Ideas? Opinions? I welcome all input, but if you're going to say "wow that's stupid" please explain why you think so. Thanks all!

:buddies:

 

[TorchBoy]

I've got a feeling that any colour is OK here, as long as the source can't be seen above a 45° (?) downward angle. I think flashing is illegal here. (Don't take that the wrong way!)

 

[-Virgil-]

Some jurisdictions (the UK comes to mind) actually say any underbody lighting must be green. The idea, presumably, is to prevent safety-critical confusion that could arise from other colors being displayed in the close vicinity of vehicles on the road. And I would have that same concern with your amber/red idea. Given the large range of reflectivity and specularity that can be encountered on ordinary roadways, it would be very easy to encounter conditions that could cause the amber front/side and the red rear underbody lighting to create reflections that would tend to mask or ambiguate your car's signals (turn indicators, brake lamps). Adding to the workload of observers who frequently have only a fraction of a second to acquire and accurately parse the image of your vehicle just doesn't seem like a good tradeoff in exchange for having undercar lighting that serves no purpose except to make you go "cool!".

IMO.

 

[TorchBoy]

Think this subsection covers underbody lighting in NZ. http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/rules/vehicle-lighting-2004.html#109

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Interesting responses, I look forward to reading more. A few points:

1.) I wouldn't be using the underbody lighting all the time, only on occasion and not at all during adverse weather(fog, heavy rain, etc).

2.) The underbody lighting won't be anywhere near bright enough to be confused with brake lights or turn signals. It might look like I've got rows of red/amber marker lights along the underside of the car. It's common to see this on trucks with the marker lights directly visible; this doesn't seem to cause any confusion.

3.) Oregon Revised Statutes state that green lighting is to be used by the fire chief at the site of a fire, or as part of a "rear lighting system" consisting of green while accelerating, amber while coasting, and red while decelerating.

:buddies:

 

[-Virgil-]

OK, but what the lawbook says vs. what's on the road in this case is two very different things. Those red-amber-green systems were talked about in the '70s, but never got anywhere. Most drivers have never seen one. That makes putting one in your car a questionable idea, even though the law says it's OK.

Speaking of the law: It's fine and well having a copy of ORS in the glovebox to show the cop who pulls you over 'cause he thinks it looks like your lights might be illegal...but it's far, far preferable not to attract the attention of the cop in the first place, IMO.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

No kidding about letter-of-the-law vs. real life. Just look at E-code headlights!

I'm not installing a green-amber-red lighting system on any of my vehicles, just commenting on where green lights are legal. As for attracting attention, a simple flip of a switch and it goes away. No big deal.

If I decide to install such underbody lighting, I'll post again with pictures and any trouble I have with them. Thanks all.

:buddies:

 

[Ken_McE]

However, I really like the idea of underbody lighting; I just think it's neat.

It's one of those rare points where "Hey that's neat!" coincides with usefull.

Obviously blue/green/purple/etc are illegal,

OK, no blue because cops use it, but who out there uses purple or green?

but what about amber/orange on the front and sides, and red in the back?

That would be my first choice, maybe white up front.

I live in the USA and my state statutes don't specifically forbid such a thing, just the use of illegal colors.

As I understand it illegal colors means flashing white (used by cops) steady white anywhere except on the front, red except as tail lights, and blue because that's also used by emergency vehicles. The rest of the spectrum is wide open because you can't be mistaken for an official vehicle.

The two LEO's I've asked just gave me the canned response "no you can't do that"

Yes, but they'd say the same thing if you said you wanted to hang fuzzy dice on your rear view mirror. Underbody lighting is new enough that there are no real laws on it. Some places like it because it makes you easy to see and it can't blind anybody.

but couldn't tell me what they could charge me with if I did.

If a cop wants you bad enough he'll think of something, even if you're 100% stock. If a cop stops you and gives you a hard time about it, don't hit a switch, offer to pull out the fuse. That will suggest you take him seriously and won't just hit the switch again when he goes around a corner.

 

[-Virgil-]

It's one of those rare points where "Hey that's neat!" coincides with usefull.

How is underbody lighting "useful", in your estimation?

OK, no blue because cops use it, but who out there uses purple or green?

Funeral processions and volunteer firefighters, in various jurisdictions.

As I understand it illegal colors means flashing white (used by cops) steady white anywhere except on the front, red except as tail lights, and blue because that's also used by emergency vehicles. The rest of the spectrum is wide open

That's not so. Many jurisdictions' vehicle and road codes specifically prohibit light of colors other than specified for illumination and signalling purposes (and priority vehicle warning lights, as applicable).

Underbody lighting is new enough that there are no real laws on it.

That's not so, either. Many jurisdictions have provisions in their vehicle and road codes that apply to underbody lighting explicitly, implicitly, or by reference.

Some places like it because it makes you easy to see

Er...huh?

If a cop stops you and gives you a hard time about it, don't hit a switch, offer to pull out the fuse. That will suggest you take him seriously and won't just hit the switch again when he goes around a corner.

Mmm...no. A fuse can be reinstalled just as easily as a switch can be flipped.

 

[TorchBoy]

Mmm...no. A fuse can be reinstalled just as easily as a switch can be flipped.

Well don't just throw the fuse off the side of the road. You'd be done for littering then.

 

[Ken_McE]

>It's one of those rare points where "Hey that's neat!" coincides
>with usefull.

>>How is underbody lighting "useful", in your estimation?

>It makes you easy to see and it cannot blind anyone.
>Think of it as an advanced DRL

>OK, no blue because cops use it, but who out there uses purple or green?

>>Funeral processions and volunteer firefighters, in various jurisdictions.

>OK, so skip them if you live there. Say, shouldn't funerals use black
>lights?

>As I understand it illegal colors means flashing white (used by cops)...
>The rest of the spectrum is wide open

>> That's not so. Many jurisdictions' vehicle and road codes specifically
>> prohibit light of colors other than specified for illumination and
>> signalling purposes (and priority vehicle warning lights, as applicable).

It is always hard to give solid advice to people who live in unknown areas.
I expect that the OP would have to see if their area differed from mine.

>Underbody lighting is new enough that there are no real laws on it.

>>That's not so, either. Many jurisdictions have provisions in their vehicle
>>and road codes that apply to underbody lighting explicitly, implicitly,
>>or by reference.

Can I blame the Bush administration? :devil:

>Some places like it because it makes you easy to see

>>Er...huh?

Think of them as [SIZE=-1]conspicuity [/SIZE]lights.

> If a cop stops you and gives you a hard time about it, don't hit a switch,
> offer to pull out the fuse. That will suggest you take him seriously and
> won't just hit the switch again when he goes around a corner.

>>Mmm...no. A fuse can be reinstalled just as easily as a switch
>>can be flipped.

What you are after is the impression of cooperativeness.

 

[-Virgil-]

Think of it as an advanced DRL (...) Think of them as [SIZE=-1]conspicuity [/SIZE]lights.

No sale. There is absolutely zero evidence to back up this imaginative claim that underbody lighting makes a vehicle more conspicuous in any way that positively influences safety.

 

[TorchBoy]

It arguably makes it more distracting.

 

[Ken_McE]

OK, No More Underbody Lighting.

OK guys, you're right. The owner of a vehicle should never make changes of any kind until they receive orders to do so from their local motor authority. It would be irresponsible for a free citizen to try and make simple improvements to a simple problem. Using ones own judgment is suspect, possibly unpatriotic. Some things, why in fact *all* things are better left to the experts.

I will go back to the forum for my car and explain to my fellow owners that what we are experiencing is a hallucination, some kind of mass hypnosis probably, and that they do not in fact suffer from the same issues I so foolishly thought I had noticed regarding the lighting on my car. One should never adapt ones own equipment for local conditions. The manufacturer is always right.

I will go out this afternoon and pull off my added-on eye level LED third brakelight, the extra turn signal lights for what I so foolishly had believed were blind spots on the sides of the car, the arrow-on-the-mirror turn indicators, the HID headlights, the reflective tape on the door jambs, the dangly orange triangle inside the trunk, all of it. I'll smash those filthy underbody lights with a hammer. I'll get that portable deathtrap LED X-mass wreath off the grill and keep it off until I get a permit for it. The foglights would be hell to get out of the bumper but I can cover them over with duct tape. I'll use the good duct tape. If I needed foglights they obviously would have come with the car. I'll go back to the stock setup with the stock .99 cent incan chinese bulbs, and maybe splash a little salt up on them so they don't distract anybody. Will that satisfy everybody?? :shakehead

Oh, but I've got to keep the spinnaz. I'll take the lights off them, the spikes, but I've got to keep the spinaaz. It's just this thing with me, I have to have them. Got to. I'll keep them real dim though, OK?

 

[TorchBoy]

Re: OK, No More Underbody Lighting.

 

[GreySave]

<< OK guys, you're right. The owner of a vehicle should never make changes of any kind until they receive orders to do so from their local motor authority. It would be irresponsible for a free citizen to try and make simple improvements to a simple problem. Using ones own judgment is suspect, possibly unpatriotic. Some things, why in fact *all* things are better left to the experts. >>

Having been employed in the automotive field for all of my life (Which is many more years than I'd care to admit), I have seen some very innovative and safe modifications done by vehicle owners. I have also seen many more modifications that were either outright unsafe or foolish. The federal and state legislation that applies to automobile equipment (talking mechanicals and lighting here) has to maintain a level of both safety and continuity. Headlamps, turnsignals, and brake lighting has to be in specific colors so that everyone driving in any state knows precisely what the lighting in each location of the vehicle means. That means no blue turnsignals, purple headlamps. or weird sequential third bake lights (Seen ALL of these).

Now, that being said, decorative lighting is often allowed by local juristictions and may be permitted for show purposes. Just remember to turn off the purple headlamp bulbs and switch back to white once you hit the roadway. Underbody lighting used while in motion is a gray area in many locations as there may be no legislation to cover it. Personally, I believe it is an unnecessary distraction. But, if there is no legislation in my area that prohibits it then that's fine with me. To each his own. Just remember that many repair facilities will NOT replace your underbody lighting if it gets broken while lifting your vehicle because it is not supposed to be there. Be sure to mount it in a way so that it will not interfere with any type of vehicle lift and be sure to tell the repair facility that it is under there so that they can be as careful as possible.

As for green lighting.......Green is the lighting color assigned to incident command vehicles under the Incident Command System and the National Incident Management System. This is a nationwide standard that quickly allows responding emergency services to locate the incident commander. If underbody lighting is legal in your location and you choose to use green I would strongly recommend turning it off on approach to any emergency scene to avoid the possibility of tripping the trigger of local law enforcement.

 

[TorchBoy]

As for green lighting.......Green is the lighting color assigned to incident command vehicles under the Incident Command System and the National Incident Management System. This is a nationwide standard that quickly allows responding emergency services to locate the incident commander.

I'm learning lots today. This means the head firefighter, for example, I presume? Sorry, I'm an ignorant foreigner.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Whoa! I didn't expect this thread to go off like this!

My opinion of legality is based on this:

" (1) ORS 816.350 and 816.360 shall not be construed to prohibit the use of additional parts and accessories on any vehicle not inconsistent with the provisions of those sections."

ORS 816.350 is a list of specifically prohibited lights on certain vehicles(does not mention underbody lighting at all), and ORS 816.360 lists the penalties for using prohibited lights. Full text here. As I won't be using illegal colors I think I'd be fine, but would also be completely willing to turn off the lighting if asked/directed to by a LEO, and I'd be prepared to pay any tickets I recieve.

Right now I fully intend to install the underbody lighting, but my time is short and there's a long list of priorities ahead of this project. Even after it's installed I won't be using it often at all. Probably less than 2% of my drive time, and my cars get driven once or twice a month and often not for a couple months at a time (The '06 STi I bought to keep my MR2 company has less than 5k miles on it.).

Thanks all, keep the interesting discussion going. :buddies:

 

[TorchBoy]

Even after it's installed I won't be using it often at all.

Do post photos.

When I installed musical air horn in my last car I (sadly?) didn't use them much, even after I changed the tune to "Here Comes the Bride." Just the odd wedding, really.