Wanting some help.

[DimeRazorback]

So, there are some great photographers on here!
I really want to be able to increase my ability in taking photographs, and need some help.

Here are a couple of shots I took earlier. Fairly abstract ideas, just in my backyard.
I'd like some criticism!

I need to learn what is good and what is bad.
The hard thing about photography to me, is that it is an art form, and therefore subjective... so how do you create shots that the majority of people will like??

 

[FlashInThePan]

Neat shots!

Photography is definitely an abstract art, so it's always hard to provide feedback. But there are some common techniques that can help create more compelling photos. For starters, take a look at these 10 simple tips for better photography. (I really wish we'd had sites like that 10-15 years ago; they distill into a few short ideas what I had to read a few hundred pages to figure out!)

One of the interesting things I've noticed about shooting in black and white is that you really have to train yourself to see in tones rather than colors. The first one of your two shots has some great contrast - the dark wheels set against light tiles - and thus makes for a really nice b&w shot. Well done! The second shot probably had very interesting and diverse colors in real life, but is a little more flat in b&w because the tones are so similar. Interestingly, I think that an even more extreme close-up of the mop would have made for a really neat photo: those fibers would have made a really cool shot in and of themselves! (By the way, this reminds me of another thing my old photo teacher told me about taking good photographs: "get really close - more close than you think is necessary. And then get closer.")

Hope this helps! Keep shooting and keep sharing - it's obvious you've already got an eye for photography and an interest in it, and those are probably the two most important things to have. :)

- FITP

 

[Burgess]

... so how do you create shots that the majority of people will like??

In My Humble Opinion . . . .


Step Number 1 - Do YOU like the photograph ?


If so, then nothing else really matters.


Photograph, first and foremost, to please yourSELF !



(that was not a "smart-***" answer, even if, perhaps, it may appear to be)



By the way . . . .

I really like the Unusual camera viewpoint and perspective in photo 1.

Shows imagination and creativity.

Leads the viewer's eye from foreground to background.



In photo 2, my eye jumps all over the image, looking for something to settle upon.

Alas, i never find a suitable "resting place".



Keep Looking all around you, for good photo opportunities.

Pay attention to Lighting, Composition, and Framing.


Good Luck, and don't get discouraged.

_

 

[smokinbasser]

Most important is do YOU like the image?, next do you see any flaws? can you retake it eliminating the flaws? One point is to compose your shot in the viewfinder. keep the horizon level in the viewfinder. Have your subject matter centered in the image. avoid having the sun in the image(try blocking it with the subject matter) if shooting people urge them not to look directly at the flash or the sun if it is behind the camera, this prevents redeye. Consider subscribing to one or more photography magazines they are fountains of great information.

 

[DimeRazorback]

Thank you for the replies guys!

FlashInThePan:
Thank you for that link!
I have been searching for something of that nature for quite a while now!

The idea of focusing on tones rather than colours makes alot of sense. With the first image, that was actually what I thought was cool.
The Dark wheel, on the lighter surface, with lines leading towards the background.

I also think that a closer shot of the mop would of made it a nicer image, and the quote of your teacher really makes sense when I think about it.
I originally took that shot a little further back, but then decided to get closer, and I then liked it alot more!

So I will keep that in mind in the future!

Burgess:
When reading your first part, I was thinking quite the opposite of being smart assed and I was nodding like one of those bobble head dogs people have in their cars :p
That I will keep in mind.

I showed my mum the picture of the trolley wheel, and she was like "Wow... that's exciting" (sarcastically) and she is normally very supportive about things, so subjective opinion means alot, and I will focus more on my own from now on!

I have to agree with you on image 2... looking back, it is a little to 'busy'

I'll keep plugging away at it all! :D

smokinbasser:
Once again, I think that I will have to focus more on what I think before others from now on.
I am also a fairly meticulous person, so if something isn't good enough for me I tend to rubbish it... or delete it :p

I think I will take up that magazine idea aswell... it completely skipped my mind :ohgeez:

Thank you guys once again!!

 

[bretti_kivi]

you cannot please everyone. Your own way of looking at the world is to their taste - or not. That's it, no changes or refunds.

If you're "meticulous", photography is probably the wrong hobby. However: if you haven't already read strobist, I'd suggest that as a very good starting point for thinking about light and its effects.

I actually don't like those; I think the contrast level is too low, they have a sepia tint and a mop in the backyard - why? if it was a flamethrower and the focus was on a weed....

I made a post in another thread that deals - at least in a very basic way - with nice subjects like depth of field and exposure. If you're using a dSLR, you really, really ought to be aware of the way of looking at the world that each different lens provides. Some have limited focus abilities, others present colours in an interesting way, and tunnel vision is common.

Bret

 

[DimeRazorback]

"and a mop in the backyard - why?"

That was the idea behind that photo.
I don't know why it was there, and I was trying to show how out of place it was :p

With both of these photos, I wanted to have my focal length set as small as the lens would go which was 14mm. I wanted to try and see what I could do with certain restraints, like that and using the inbuilt monotone of my camera.

My equipment is limited, and I was trying to create raw, and simple pics :)
(There isn't very much to photograph in my backyard other than lady beetles :))

I don't know why you think a meticulous person shouldn't be involved in photography??
Wouldn't that make the person strive harder for better shots??

Thanks for your constructive criticism :thumbsup:

Also, I loved your shots in the other thread

:)

 

[bretti_kivi]

... because the perfect photo ain't gonna happen.

Anything that does is usually a combination of right time, place, interest, skill and luck. The proportions change as you get more acquainted with the rules and maths necessary, but there's always a certain amount of luck or guesswork involved.

What equipment do you have?

Bret

 

[DimeRazorback]

When I say meticulous, by that I mean I will retake photos until I have something I like.
It may be once it may be three times :)

All I have is my Olympus E-420 with a 14-42mm and 40-150mm lens.

 

[RAGE CAGE]

In My Humble Opinion . . . .


Step Number 1 - Do YOU like the photograph ?


If so, then nothing else really matters.


Photograph, first and foremost, to please yourSELF !



(that was not a "smart-***" answer, even if, perhaps, it may appear to be)



By the way . . . .

I really like the Unusual camera viewpoint and perspective in photo 1.

Shows imagination and creativity.

Leads the viewer's eye from foreground to background.



In photo 2, my eye jumps all over the image, looking for something to settle upon.

Alas, i never find a suitable "resting place".



Keep Looking all around you, for good photo opportunities.

Pay attention to Lighting, Composition, and Framing.


Good Luck, and don't get discouraged.

_

Ditto- photo 1 is good- the texture of the bricks and the angle are good- it does show creativity and imagination- while photo 2 is not captivating to me at all- keep trying- and as long as you like it-that is what is important.:thumbsup:

 

[bretti_kivi]

"all I have" is in this case quite a lot. I see nothing wrong with taking a shot 3-4-5 times in different variations.

Taking shots that "people like" is extremely difficult. Did you try entering the competitions that are run on pretty much every single photo forum I can think of? That should give you an idea of what the photo crowd like....

Bret

 

[ElectronGuru]

I need to learn what is good and what is bad.
The hard thing about photography to me, is that it is an art form, and therefore subjective...

Thats my favorite thing about the camera, its the perfect blend of art and technology.

A few things not covered in most guides

• Get unnaturally close to your subject. People already know what X looks like at eye level from 5 feet away.
  
• Burn through frames. For every "shot" you want, take 3, 5, 10 pictures. Sit down at the computer and immediately erase half of them. Then play with what remains until you're left with the one.
  
• You're not going for a look, you're going for a feeling. Ask yourself what you want the viewer to feel, then figure out how to produce that feeling.
  
• Be aware of your glass. Wide angle lenses push things out, tele lenses bring things together.
  
• Light is everything in a picture. Not just the color or brightness or angle. Even distance can produce a feeling:

One other tip evident in this shot, when shooting small things, position the camera such that the subject looks "life sized"

 

[DoctaDink]

I need to learn what is good and what is bad.The hard thing about photography to me, is that it is an art form, and therefore subjective... so how do you create shots that the majority of people will like??
Well, first...it is difficult to define what is good or bad in photography. There are rules of thumb, and accepted conventions, but they are often broken successfullly. There are MANY elements in photography that form the language of the photo. and they all work together to create a meaningful image. It is a life long quest to lean and implement these in the effort to make great photos. There are both objective technical elements and subjective/emotional elements. And, photography is a huge field, encompassing many applications, not all are meant to be art. There are so many applications - Eg: Documentary/ Journalistic photography, Commercial, Advertising, Product, Architctural, Archeological, Wedding, Portrait, Art/Abstract, Fashion, Outdoor/Nature, Sports, Astronomical, Geological, Medical, etc. etc. what is considered a "Good" scientific or forensic photo, might be awfu"Art".
Second, I would say don't worry about creating photos that other people like, unless you are doing the work for them. Create stuff that moves YOU, and expresses what YOU want to say/convey.

I understand and applaud your desire to learn the "how to" of photography, just realize that they are just the tools you need to express what you want to.

In your first photo of the wheels, I like the graphic elements. The repetition of the round dark wheels, set at an angle to one another. with the contrasting angular elements of the bricks and legs. I like this is Black & White as it make the graphic aspect more evident. I think the highlights in the bricks to the left are a bit over exposed. Regarding composition: I think that the crop is too off balance. I like that he wheels are to the right, just a bit too much in my opinion. And I don't think that the yard in the background really adds anything. Perhaps this could have been cropped a little tighter, or vertically.

Or, I think it may have been improved with another point of interest in the photo, such as dropped hamburger on the bricks, or an insect or a dog walking away with a hot dog in its mouth; you know, something that tells a story or raises a question in the mind of the viewer. The photo otherwise is more of a study in graphic elements.

 

[DimeRazorback]

Thanks a lot guys!

It is all food for thought for me!

It reminds me of school.
I was never really an excellent English student, until one of my teachers saw a bit of ability/potential and decided to get it out of me in a very harsh/in your face method.
He would fail me, when other kids would write crap and get good marks... but he did it for a reason!
It definitely helped me, but at the time I was too young to understand why he was "being so cruel towards me"

Anyway, my point is that I am new to the photography scene, and I am still learning!
So harsh and realistic opinions really do help!

Even the simple explanation that there are different types of photography makes a lot more sense to me now.
I understood that there were different styles, but at the same time I didn't.

I will keep all things mentioned in this thread in mind, and I am going to try my best to use all this information to try and improve!!


:D :twothumbs

 

[DoctaDink]

G'day DimeRazorback.

As for me, I NEVER want to give "Harsh" criticism; objective perhaps but never personal, negative or cruel. You are off to an amazing start, and need to be encouraged and applauded.
You are fortunate to be leaning photography in this day and time. Back in the day when there was only film photography, you didn't get instant feedback on your photos. It use to be maddening to take photos that you thought were perfect, only to find when they returned from processing (or processed yourself), that you were off in your exposure, or focus, or color balance, etc. Plus, you couldn't remember under what conditions and settings you took them. Now a glance at the LCD tells all. Also, it cost you film and processing every photo you took, whereas now, you can shoot until your heart's content. Erase the bad, and keep the good. Now, with image editing software, you can rescue photos that couldn't be rescued in the dark room, or would have taken hours of work and lots of paper and chemicals to fix.
Keep at it! Have fun! Take a lot of photos, Be creative, try different things. There is SO MUCH information available online, Look at photos at various image sites, analyze what works and doesn't work for you in those images. Look at lighting, composition, subject choices.
I would suggest that you start with natural lighting, and avoid flash (expecially, on camera flash) unless you are using it for fill lighting. Look at photos online and see if you can tell where the lighting is coming from and ask whether or not it works or not.

 

[bretti_kivi]

one other thing: get involved in one of the photo forums, whether it's a general or brand-specific one. You'll learn a lot from reading and see just who the keyboard warriors are and those who deliver.

One comment also sticks in mind: when discussing wedding photos, the comment is frequently made that "it's not the quality of the shots, it's the marketing". If you're there in the right time and place, you'll get the business if you ask for it - same as you can get the shot if you have your camera with you.
Check out flickr, 23hq, pbase and other photo sites, too, as they can give you inspiration and occasionally serious "wow" moments.

Bret

 

[jch79]

I need to learn what is good and what is bad.

LOL, if only it were that easy!

My advice would be to study the classic photographers of the past - they're some of the best teachers you can get. A few classic photographers who often shot in black & white and whose styles you might dig:
Harry Callahan (one of my all-time favorites)
Edward Weston (talk about making normal stuff abstract!)
Paul Strand (the master of shadows IMHO)
Ansel Adams (obligatory mention, mostly due to his mastery of technique)

The best thing to do is just to keep shooting!

Never crop! IMHO, it makes you a lazy photographer - you should be training yourself to look for good compositions in-camera. While I will occasionally shoot a scene that I purposely mean to crop square, I almost never ever crop my photos. Partly because they're framed the way they are for a reason, and partly because it's really easy to tell when a photograph is cropped!

I like your photos, or at least where they're going! I like the mop photo more, but I also think the two work well together as a diptych. Remember, you took them for a reason (even if it didn't seem like there was one), and IMHO, that's worth a lot. Keep exploring ideas, no matter how weird or boring or contrived they might seem - they tend to develop (no pun intended) into something new and exciting.

And keep shooting!

:thumbsup: john

 

[DoctaDink]

I agree about studying the Photographic Masters, as well as current artists.
Re:
"Never crop! IMHO, it makes you a lazy photographer - you should be training yourself to look for good compositions in-camera."

I agree with the idea of doing most of your work in the camera rather than with post processing (including crop, exposure, etc.)
However, cropping is an important tool, not to be ignored. Plus, if you are going to have prints made, then you'll need to crop unless you are going print them at a 1.5:1 aspect ratio such as 4x6, 8x12.
I happen to use a camera that has cropping lines etched at "8x10" so that I can crop in camera.
It is nice with the new high resolution cameras, that we can take photos a little wider than we anticipate using, and then cropping portions of the image to get the aspect ratio and composition that we visualized.

 

[bretti_kivi]

One thing I really like about GIMP is that I can add guides when I've rotated / straightened something to get the rule of thirds right. It's extremely useful - I tend to be 1.5 - 2 degrees out. I lose maybe 80pix each side but get to reformat slightly.

Clone and Heal are also amazing when you really start to understand what they are capable of and the amount of time and effort it's worth putting in for one pixel. Your eyes *will* see it and be irritated.

Bret

 

[jch79]

However, cropping is an important tool, not to be ignored.

I agree 100% :thumbsup: - but only after you have the ability to regularly capture a complete (and satisfactory) composition in-camera. :whistle: That's why some of the masters would print the border of their 4x5 or 8x10's (or even 35mm), to show that the photograph you're looking at is what their keen eyes saw through the camera. Of course, in today's Photoshop world, you can add a "film" border to any photo and any crop. :duck: :devil:

...to get the rule of thirds right.

Thirds schmirds! :nana: Rules are meant to be broken - this one especially IMHO. It's a great starting point, but past that, I see it as more of a constraint than a rule! Some of my all-time favorite photographers totally ignored any preset standards and/or rules, instead creating (and breaking) their own rules.

But with everything in life, this is all IMHO, and YMMV! :D :wave:

I love this thread! :twothumbs

:thumbsup: john