Weapon Mounted Flashlight Help Needed

[st.attila]

I'm a newbie to CPF and I'm seeking the combined knowledge of those here to help me solve a problem.

I wanted to add a hunting light to my .308 Win AR rifle (DPMS LR-308B).

I began by researching the various mounts available to use my Surefire Executive Elite E2e (HA/OD Finish). I settled on a VLTOR Scout Mount (SM-E) http://www.vltor.com/vltor-mountables.htm.

When it arrived, I read the documentation and it contained the following:

"Shock Isolation - A little bit about shock isolation. In the case of the Surefire classic series weapons lights the bezels are socked isolated to protect the bulb during recoil. In the G series of lights the plastic body serves as the shock isolator and has proven itself time and again. In the E series of lights they have no shock isolation protection. If you plan on using one on anything larger than a .223/5.56, your best option would be to use an L4 or one of their LED conversions. The LED has no filaments to break during recoil."

I immediately starting searching the Internet and found a great deal of good information here on CPF. I had just about decided to take the plunge on a Surefire KX2C LED head ($135) when I came across the post from Novanet (Re: KX2C complete light, dated 2-28-09) http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=211797. It directed me to a familiar place, Viking Tactics, but one I had overlooked for a lighting solution. I was focused on the mount. The Viking Tactics/Surefire L4 Light ($149.95) (http://www.vikingtactics.com/pop-vtac_surefire_L4.html) appeared to be exactly what I needed for only $15 more than the head.

Before I pulled the trigger on a purchase, I wrote Viking Tactics. This was their response:

"On whether or not the L4 light is going hold up to repeated 308 recoil...short answer is it will hold up to .223 fine as this light is used by our staff on the training line. No practical experience with it on 308 guns. I'd probably look for one of Surefire's "shock isolated" weapon lights..like their 300A or 600A scout weapon lights. The L4 is really a handheld that will also do double duty as a weapon light..but only have used on .223 guns.

Thanks
David
Product Support
Viking Tactics, Inc.
(910)987-5983 Sales Office
www.vikingtactics.com"

I then wrote Surefire. After a week with no response, I called them today. Technical support told me that no Surefire flashlight was designed to be weapon mounted and that I should consider one of their Scout Light LED weapon lights (e.g, M300A, M600C).

I'm not spending $335+ for a light for the occasional feral hog hunting trip.

What do CPF members have to say on the subject?

Thanks in advance.

 

[coyote]

why not just buy a factory rail-mounted LED 'light made for that use, like the TLR-1 C4 which sells for around $80 discounted?

 

[chickenlittle]

I have a Surefire G 2 Nitrolon on my M-4. I replaced the stock bulb with a drop fit Cree LED from DX, which should avoid the recoil damage to a filament bulb and power it with RCR123 batteries. I use a plastic spring-loaded mount on a YHM foregrip and velcro mounted the pressure swx between the grip pads so as not to accidently light it up grabbing the foregrip. Total cost under $70.
So far, no problem with the G-2 firing the rifle on the range.

 

[haplo]

why not just buy a factory rail-mounted LED 'light made for that use, like the TLR-1 C4 which sells for around $80 discounted?

I would second this option. I have the TLR-2, and its not a spot light, but it is very capable.

My understanding of the matter, is that shock is still a problem if you move to LEDs, because you can actually compress the batteries. If you search the forum for "recoil battery damage" or something similar, you'll probably find several discussions about this. Short story: Put in some springs. Long story: Surefire actually sells some CR123s that are fixed together with shock isolation material between them. If I recall, those are either really hard to get, or not available to the public for some reason or another.

Also, I have an Eagletac T100C2 MkII as well. Its definitely a thrower, so would probably be a good bet for hog hunting, and because its a LED flashlight, you should be good for recoil as well (may need to modify the spring though so the batteries "float" both directions if recoil concerns you). The light, pressure pad tailcap, and mounting kit was less than $100 shipped. The light alone is about $50, and its one of my favorite LED lights to date. And it'll run safely on 2 x CR123s, 2 x RCR123s, and 1 x 18650. The majority of Surefire lights aren't safe with rechargeables.

H.

 

[Solscud007]

Dont believe everything you hear from SF. the SF Viking tactics will work just fine weapon mounted. There will be very little effect from recoil given the solid state LED. only your batteries might deform. However this is only if you plan on running thousands of rounds in a very short amount of time.

given that you said, "hunting light" you wont be expelling that many rounds, otherwise you would be a terrible hunter haha.

I have the Viking tactics L4 and a real scoutlight. there is virtually NO difference in design.

There are a few major components to a weaponlight.

Bezel
Body
Tailcap
Mount

The bezel on the VTAC-L4 is a KX2C, which is the EXACT same head on a Scoutlight (there are others like the KL4 and incan models but that is a moot point)

next we move onto the body, no differences here either in design. The body holds the batteries in line and allows for the head and tailcap to screw on. Normally a dedicated weaponlight has a collar that holds the batteries in place in between the bezel and body threads. This is to eliminate the movement of the batteries. However the scoutlight doesnt have this collar. so you are not benefiting from having a scoutlight body over the E2 series body like the VTAC-L4

Tailcap. VTAC-L4 comes with a scoutlight tailcap. No difference from a weaponlight. You can get a UE07 and remote tape switch if you desired.

Mount. the scoutlight mount is obviously integrated into the body of the flashlight. VTAC-L4 does not have said mount. however the crucial part is "will the light work under fire" and the answer is yes. the VTAC-L4 is a handheld scoutlight. in form and function.

Dont worry, if anything goes wrong, SF will replace it. ignore the customer service blanket marketing answer of "no, you need to buy the more expensive model" they are a business after all.

 

[cchurchi]

This thread needs pix.

 

[MrGman]

I would say forget the Surefires altogether. You can get 2 regular Solarforce L2 hosts with the pressure switch, put 2 Malkoff M30's in there and run them off of one 18650 battery each. (All the newer L2 hosts that I have seen for sale take the 18650 battery. Put the lights one on each side of the gun, you will have over 440 lumens of real output light at your command. Highly reliable, very doubtful either would fail. Its not like your going to shoot 30 rounds during a pig hunt in rapid fire mode. (probably would do nothing to the Malkoffs). The Solarforce hosts have been very inexpensive yet reliable. If something does go wrong replacement pieces are very cheap.

If you don't want the M30 with an 18650 type battery you could find the original L2 hosts for sale on Ebay or from Scope and Laser, put in M60's and run them on CR123 primaries or 2 RCR 123s. You could put these batteries in the newer wider L2 host that fits the 18mm battery but you may not like the rattle and loose fit (sideways). I have friends running these on shotguns with no problem. The pressure switches from Solarforce are only $12 each, the Hosts are $25 at Lighthound dot com. You could have 2 fully useable hosts for under $75 and two Malkoffs for another $110.00

I would go with a warm and a cool one and use them both myself.

With the Solarforce hosts you could drop in a dereelight with a smooth reflector on one side for more throw and the Malkoff on the other. You could run the new Thrunight module on one side, that's a 260 lumen screamer with a very useable beam pattern. Point is you have a very reliable and redundant system with module replaceable parts should you need to do that.

There are lots of mounts to put these 1 inch tube lights on a picatinny rail offset. I have done so myself.

Good luck. Send me some pork chops if you like my workable solution.

 

[st.attila]

Dont believe everything you hear from SF. the SF Viking tactics will work just fine weapon mounted. There will be very little effect from recoil given the solid state LED. only your batteries might deform. However this is only if you plan on running thousands of rounds in a very short amount of time.

given that you said, "hunting light" you wont be expelling that many rounds, otherwise you would be a terrible hunter haha.

I have the Viking tactics L4 and a real scoutlight. there is virtually NO difference in design.

There are a few major components to a weaponlight.

Bezel
Body
Tailcap
Mount

The bezel on the VTAC-L4 is a KX2C, which is the EXACT same head on a Scoutlight (there are others like the KL4 and incan models but that is a moot point)

next we move onto the body, no differences here either in design. The body holds the batteries in line and allows for the head and tailcap to screw on. Normally a dedicated weaponlight has a collar that holds the batteries in place in between the bezel and body threads. This is to eliminate the movement of the batteries. However the scoutlight doesnt have this collar. so you are not benefiting from having a scoutlight body over the E2 series body like the VTAC-L4

Tailcap. VTAC-L4 comes with a scoutlight tailcap. No difference from a weaponlight. You can get a UE07 and remote tape switch if you desired.

Mount. the scoutlight mount is obviously integrated into the body of the flashlight. VTAC-L4 does not have said mount. however the crucial part is "will the light work under fire" and the answer is yes. the VTAC-L4 is a handheld scoutlight. in form and function.

Dont worry, if anything goes wrong, SF will replace it. ignore the customer service blanket marketing answer of "no, you need to buy the more expensive model" they are a business after all.

Solscud007, this is the exact data I needed to make my decision to move forward on getting the Viking Tactics/Surefire L4. Thanks!

coyote & haplo, I considered the Streamlight TLR-1 (C4), but after a lot of reseach I ran across a forum thread of someone who had more than one and commented that they stayed in the repair shop more than on his guns.

chickenlittle, I already have purchased the mount (VLTOR SM-E) and the G series requires a SM-G.

cchurchi, nice pic.

MrGman, to be honest, I'm not sure I understood everything you had to say. Rather than risk a complete build and be dissatisfied, I wanted a turnkey product. Besides, my next scheduled ferral hog hunt is almost here.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

 

[2swift]

I use a Fenix TK11 in a Warne 1in. Q/D ring on a semi auto 12 gauge for hog control. It has survived hundreds of rounds of both 2 3/4in. slugs and 3in. buckshot. I have also used the same light on a Marlin guide gun in 45/70 for several rounds with no problems. It has worked out very well for me.

 

[Pinarello]

I would like to use the new m600 scoutlight as an handheld tactical light. Can I somehow dissasemble that picatiny rail? What will I get?
Thank you for help!

 

[4DMag-Lite]

I use a streamlight TRL-1sHP