What optic/reflector should I be looking for?

[Zero_Enigma]

I want a long range beam for a helmet light and also to add to the middle of the bar light.

I want a long range thrower with little to no spill light. A smooth even beam would be preferred.

I'm not sure what optic/reflector and the name of the item I need to be looking for. Thanks in advance.

 

[Zero_Enigma]

Actually make that no spill and all forward lighting.

 

[Holzleim]

You can achieve good throw with almost no sidespill by using a setup of CREE XR-E LED and aspheric lenses.

But for a hlmet light this might get too heavy. So you could better go for a TIR optic (FRAEN 27mm or GAGGIONE Mobdar) wich will result in ~6 Degree tight beam.

An 55mm or 52 apheric will result in 2-3 degree beam divergence.

 

[znomit]

Want throw?
Aspheric = mega throw

Otherwise, the deeper the reflector the better for throw.

 

[Zero_Enigma]

I forgot to mention I need a up to 20mm (prefer less if possible) solution as I'm using Allen's cube light design.

 

[Zero_Enigma]

I'm curious about the reflectors. Would a reflector not short out if you mounted it (say IMS20 or Khatod) on the LED touching the solder points?

Just wondering ways to keep the optic from shorting.

 

[A123Powered]

You could possibly use a Ledil optic (these are the square ones), they are 21.6mm IIRC but can be sanded down a bit. Many use these for bike lights (though I have not yet). I currently have some polymer optics which are hexagonal shaped and about the smallest I have seen, though performance may not be so great compared to the others out there (but I needed the smallest). I good place to compare is http://www.cutter.com.au/. You should be able to find several that may work there.

As far as shorting the pads on the star, you can make an insulator with a hole punch for the led, or you can buy the stickies from KD or DX which have a reflective side facing out.

 

[Zero_Enigma]

You could possibly use a Ledil optic (these are the square ones), they are 21.6mm IIRC but can be sanded down a bit. Many use these for bike lights (though I have not yet). I currently have some polymer optics which are hexagonal shaped and about the smallest I have seen, though performance may not be so great compared to the others out there (but I needed the smallest). I good place to compare is http://www.cutter.com.au/. You should be able to find several that may work there.

As far as shorting the pads on the star, you can make an insulator with a hole punch for the led, or you can buy the stickies from KD or DX which have a reflective side facing out.

Can you link me to the stickies? I was thinking last night that I might need to use Arctic Alumina Silver to bond the optic to the LED to keep it standing straight in the case of Khatods which I don't see any lens holder. I've built a light already but used L2 optics and they have nice lens holders that have a lot of space in the middle to avoid pushing against the solder points.

You can see the lights I've made and the testings here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49184877@N00/

 

[A123Powered]

If you go to KD and search for "isolator" they will be listed. another option is to use some kapton tape or a piece of plastic or something with a hole in the middle (easiest is to use a standard hole punch).

Your lights look like the Amoeba lights on MTBR forums. Those are made of aluminum channel and I think they use the Ledil optics.the square optic would seem to be the best fit considering the end of the channel is also square (no front plate needed).

Oops, I just saw a couple of the Amoeba lights and they are not using the Ledil square optics. They are using some reflector. If they fit, the Ledil's seem like a good idea though.

 

[Zero_Enigma]

If you go to KD and search for "isolator" they will be listed. another option is to use some kapton tape or a piece of plastic or something with a hole in the middle (easiest is to use a standard hole punch).

Your lights look like the Amoeba lights on MTBR forums. Those are made of aluminum channel and I think they use the Ledil optics.the square optic would seem to be the best fit considering the end of the channel is also square (no front plate needed).

Oops, I just saw a couple of the Amoeba lights and they are not using the Ledil square optics. They are using some reflector. If they fit, the Ledil's seem like a good idea though.

Thanks I'll check up on that. I'm using L2 optics. You can see them at www.ledsupply.com and look at the 20mm ones for Luxeon 3/5W. I'm using SSC's in that light.

Also my light up there is originally following Allen's (SirAchesAlot) design plans at www.bikeled.org

 

[Zero_Enigma]

Want throw?
Aspheric = mega throw

Otherwise, the deeper the reflector the better for throw.

Thanks. Now I know. :thumbsup: So deeper the reflector better the throw because more light is reflected and concentrated inside the reflector before being throw out am I understading this correct?

Also what about wider reflectors with a wider width? Say 26mm-50mm? What are the characteristics of that light? Also does the deeper the reflector hold true as well on say a lens optic that is deeper and not a reflector?

Thanks in advance. Still learning on this and sometimes forget some stuff so a refresher is always nice.

 

[znomit]

Zero, the LED puts out light in all directions over a full hemisphere. Without anything in the way this is 100% spill. A reflector is a paraboloid that catches the spill and points it straight out the front. The deeper it is the more light it catches, hence more spill is turned into throw. See diagram here but backwards.

Now, the reflector works perfectly if the light source is very very small relative to the reflector. So the bigger the reflector the better (since shrinking the LED isn't really an option though XR-C have very good throw but less total light). See all those P7 torches and everyone asking where the throw is? The LED is over twice the size of a P4 or XR-E so the beam is much wider too. With a perfect reflector you end up with an image of the LED die. Often the reflector is OP (orange peel) which blurs out the throw, making a smoother bright spot.

Optics work by total internal reflection. The light can't exit the optic until it gets to the front face. The light bouncing off the curved backside of the optics gets shaped by that curve into the appropriate angle. The curve shaped to give a nice smooth beam... but same as for reflectors works best with a bigger optic.

In practice we get very nice beams from 20-25mm optics or reflectors or smaller. Me? I like optics for riding.

If you're still awake after all that. Visit the welcome mat.

 

[Zero_Enigma]

Zero, the LED puts out light in all directions over a full hemisphere. Without anything in the way this is 100% spill. A reflector is a paraboloid that catches the spill and points it straight out the front. The deeper it is the more light it catches, hence more spill is turned into throw. See diagram here but backwards.

Now, the reflector works perfectly if the light source is very very small relative to the reflector. So the bigger the reflector the better (since shrinking the LED isn't really an option though XR-C have very good throw but less total light). See all those P7 torches and everyone asking where the throw is? The LED is over twice the size of a P4 or XR-E so the beam is much wider too. With a perfect reflector you end up with an image of the LED die. Often the reflector is OP (orange peel) which blurs out the throw, making a smoother bright spot.

Optics work by total internal reflection. The light can't exit the optic until it gets to the front face. The light bouncing off the curved backside of the optics gets shaped by that curve into the appropriate angle. The curve shaped to give a nice smooth beam... but same as for reflectors works best with a bigger optic.

In practice we get very nice beams from 20-25mm optics or reflectors or smaller. Me? I like optics for riding.

If you're still awake after all that. Visit the welcome mat.

Whoa.. data overload.

Have you experimented with TIR optics? Like the L2 NX-05 20mm optics on a SSC or Cree? The only TIR optic I know of is the L2 NX-05 20mm which the spec sheet here states that it is a TIR optic. Will this lens holder here work with all SSC's?

Also can you list me some TIR optics for SSC and Cree's? Thanks. I find thrower lights are good for the helmet for my riding.

 

[znomit]

All the things we call optics are TIR, thats how they work!
Aspherics work as lenses.
Reflectors work by reflecting.

Zero quit worrying so much. :sweat:
Get some optics narrow beam optics or reflectors that fit, stick them in your light and get out riding!:twothumbs

 

[Zero_Enigma]

You could possibly use a Ledil optic (these are the square ones), they are 21.6mm IIRC but can be sanded down a bit. Many use these for bike lights (though I have not yet). I currently have some polymer optics which are hexagonal shaped and about the smallest I have seen, though performance may not be so great compared to the others out there (but I needed the smallest). I good place to compare is http://www.cutter.com.au/. You should be able to find several that may work there.

As far as shorting the pads on the star, you can make an insulator with a hole punch for the led, or you can buy the stickies from KD or DX which have a reflective side facing out.

I have no ieda what to search that under on KD or DX. Can you or someone else kindly direct link me to what A123 is talking about on both sides please? Thanks in advance.

EDIT:

Gah.. ok.. saw it.. searching for 'isolators' now.. :tired: