When You Want Long Runtime...

[flashy bazook]

The Streamlight Propolymer lights with the seven LED's have long run times. I have the 4AA model with 7 leds and I use it for when the power goes out because of the long run time.

327 hours according to the manufacturer, for the 3xC model.

I have one for that reason, and also maintain some Accupower rechargeables in the C format to keep it running (mainly during power outages, since it is a pretty sickly light beam otherwise).

Of course, it is not an EDC light by any stretch of the imagination, which is what this thread started off with.

I agree that most modern 1x either AA or 123A LED flashlights with a low output level can produce long runtimes (several tens of hours, depending on the lumens and the efficiency of the electronic controllers).

I maintain a 2nd generation (I think) Surefire L1 with a Red LED because it has something 90 hours runtime on low, and 15-20 hours on high (numbers here may not be very exact! It may be more like 40-60 hours on low, depending on which generation of L1 we are talking about). This is a very nice EDC 1x123A format, by the way, a classic shape that fits great in the hand.

Fenix generally has some of the most efficient controllers, and that's shown by the excellent performance of either of its 2x123A or 2xAA lights (I guess they are more efficient than the 1x lights for some reason). This would be the P3D and the L2D (or whatever they are called today). Again, one has to decide whether the 2x form factor is acceptable for an EDC.

I loved the idea of running the Malkoff M60LL in a 3xAA format! I hope the 40 hour runtime there is correct? (but note - this will include non-regulated declining lumen outputs I think, most likely the large majority of time will be non-regulated). Still, very useful for power outages and other emergencies, even though 3xAA will be even less EDC'able than the 2xAA formfactor.

I am now running the M60LL with a 1x18650, which gives pretty long runtimes, but if this 3xAAA idea works I can reuse the 1x18650 battery tube, probably with a M60L or equivalent, getting the higher lumen output of the M60L but with a more decent runtime, especially when compared with running it with 2xRCR123A's which is what i currently do.

 

[BRO]

see the same thread - post #16 shows a SF E2L doing 63 hours of regulated runtime on low, the author's favorite EDC.

I use a SL Sidewinder for 100+ hours of constant-current regulated run time on 2AA's, don't EDC it though...

Thanks for sharing, that light would be a good emergency house light for me.

 

[etc]

I loved the idea of running the Malkoff M60LL in a 3xAA format! I hope the 40 hour runtime there is correct? (but note - this will include non-regulated declining lumen outputs I think, most likely the large majority of time will be non-regulated). Still, very useful for power outages and other emergencies, even though 3xAA will be even less EDC'able than the 2xAA formfactor.

I am now running the M60LL with a 1x18650, which gives pretty long runtimes, but if this 3xAAA idea works I can reuse the 1x18650 battery tube, probably with a M60L or equivalent, getting the higher lumen output of the M60L but with a more decent runtime, especially when compared with running it with 2xRCR123A's which is what i currently do.

Nope, not 40 hours, but more like documented 90 hours. The 40-hour figure is applicable to the 2xAA format.
I ran M60LL for a long time in 3xAA format but just recently switched to the 2xAA format, namely Surefire 9P. Reason is, I find the CR123A compatibility more important, I can either run 123s or AAs which is really neat. You get 13 hours with the former and 40 hours with the latter.
Plus 3xAA is just a little too big. No way to EDC it. Just about falls out from all pockets or half of it sticks out. Need some special holster for it and even then it bumps into things.
Outside the scope of this thread, but this is where superiority of 123s clearly comes into play, where you can see that 3x123 is possible to EDC but 3xAA is not.
So with this 3xAA FiveMega I have, I plan to stick M61LL in it and see what difference that makes.

In any case, M**LL in 1x18650 is another excellent choice for extended, I hear 20 hours is the runtime and the lumens are pretty decent. Would very much prefer that over some tiny AA lite like Gerber Infinity.

 

[etc]

The right answer to the question of "When you want a really long runtime"..... get Solar power, a battery bank, a computer to control it all... I hear should cost you 15-20K to set it up but you can be completely off the grid. Think of it as a permanent outage. If you screw up, it gets dark fast. No power and it's not coming back. Isn't that exciting.

That would be my dream house. Not a single incan, but LEDs throughout the premises.

Solar backed up by a generator. Maybe 2 gennies, one on gas, the other one on propane.

Flashlights are just toys that facilitate you to get to your equipment and start it properly, or in case you have to debug it. Then the toys are useful. But never the primary line of defense. Think about it, what would you do with just a torch? In a power outage you have no heat, no AC, no dishwasher, no fridge, no computer, no TV, no nothing. Just about all you can do is read something (something like how normal people live)

You need AC in the summer and heat in the winter. I had a power outage last winter and was freezing my bottom off. This summer too. Ran genny and had lights but no AC. My lites showed the terrible condition but did little to help it. My power company is terrible. Have a worse than average downtime than national. They need to bury the lines but it's cheaper for them to fix it every time a storm comes in and blows trees down. I won't rely on the grid in the future. Not reliable enough and worse, just too expensive.

 

[flashy bazook]

Nope, not 40 hours, but more like documented 90 hours. The 40-hour figure is applicable to the 2xAA format.
I ran M60LL for a long time in 3xAA format but just recently switched to the 2xAA format, namely Surefire 9P. Reason is, I find the CR123A compatibility more important, I can either run 123s or AAs which is really neat. You get 13 hours with the former and 40 hours with the latter.
Plus 3xAA is just a little too big. No way to EDC it. Just about falls out from all pockets or half of it sticks out. Need some special holster for it and even then it bumps into things.
Outside the scope of this thread, but this is where superiority of 123s clearly comes into play, where you can see that 3x123 is possible to EDC but 3xAA is not.
So with this 3xAA FiveMega I have, I plan to stick M61LL in it and see what difference that makes.

In any case, M**LL in 1x18650 is another excellent choice for extended, I hear 20 hours is the runtime and the lumens are pretty decent. Would very much prefer that over some tiny AA lite like Gerber Infinity.

Wow - 90 hours!! Absolutely amazing.

Based in the discussion here I just switched around my collection of battery tubes and Malkoff drop-ins.

I moved the M60LL from the 1x18650, where I had it before with very nice results, to the 3xAA. It is just fine on brightness, quite similar to the 1x18650 output as far as my eye can tell.

That freed the 1x18650 tube, and I put in my M30 in it. In a way this is quite optimal for the M30, which has big throw and output in this setup and max runtime.

I also use the M31L in a 2xAA format, which should give between 2-3 hours of runtime (? not sure about this). So perfect for outdoors use.

I should mention that I was using the M60LL mainly indoors, so was not really needing it to be EDC'able. (In fact I normally also have a diffuser on it). For outdoors, I can instead use the M31L with 2xAA when 120-140 lumens is enough.

For bigger outdoors throw, and a more EDC'able format I'll just use the M30. I also have a 3P and a 4.5P format, so if runtime is sufficient for my outdoors use I can use a 1x123 primary or rechargeable, or a 1x18500 (which is a great EDC format, btw) with the M30.

Finally, the idea of the 9P format is also intriguing. I have that, too, but like to use it with the M60 in a 2x18500 format. I get the big throw and lumen output with plenty of runtime that way.

I have it in all black (quite sleek, actually, including a crenelated black steel bezel), and it is my light to carry in those "I heard a bump in the night" situations, and similar situations. It can be used outdoors or indoors quite nicely.

PS - I forgot to mention one more change, to put in an M60L into a straight 6P format with 2x123A primaries. This then has 4.5 hours of full output runtime (as I understand it), and more with declining output. If you get it in a plastic (nitrolon/G2) body, it is quite a lightweight light, and very nice for outdoors use especially, where 140 lumens or so is especially useable. It has a big throw aspect with plenty of spill.

 

[flashy bazook]

The right answer to the question of "When you want a really long runtime"..... get Solar power, a battery bank, a computer to control it all... I hear should cost you 15-20K to set it up but you can be completely off the grid. Think of it as a permanent outage. If you screw up, it gets dark fast. No power and it's not coming back. Isn't that exciting.

That would be my dream house. Not a single incan, but LEDs throughout the premises.

Solar backed up by a generator. Maybe 2 gennies, one on gas, the other one on propane.

Flashlights are just toys that facilitate you to get to your equipment and start it properly, or in case you have to debug it. Then the toys are useful. But never the primary line of defense. Think about it, what would you do with just a torch? In a power outage you have no heat, no AC, no dishwasher, no fridge, no computer, no TV, no nothing. Just about all you can do is read something (something like how normal people live)

You need AC in the summer and heat in the winter. I had a power outage last winter and was freezing my bottom off. This summer too. Ran genny and had lights but no AC. My lites showed the terrible condition but did little to help it. My power company is terrible. Have a worse than average downtime than national. They need to bury the lines but it's cheaper for them to fix it every time a storm comes in and blows trees down. I won't rely on the grid in the future. Not reliable enough and worse, just too expensive.

A lot of interesting and thought provoking ideas here etc, thanks!

A few points that occur to me:

I have two friends who are into solar power. One has spent quite a bit of time looking whether it makes sense in terms of dollars. Unfortunately, it is still not very economical to go to solar. So, if you do it, know you are spending extra bucks for peace of mind and independence. For some, this could definitely be worth it. For others, it might not (especially if they live in areas where getting access to solar power may be difficult, e.g., in apartments, in areas with heavy tree canopy, in areas with frequent cloud cover,...).

The other friend is actually doing research with exotic materials to improve the efficiency of solar panels. Sounds exciting, but it might take a long time for the research to bear fruit and for production to catch up and bring those super efficient solar panels to mass use.

Now, I don't know whether you have access to natural gas where you live. If you do, you at least don't have problems with heat in a power outage situation, since you can run your heating system on natural gas.

Also, you can have hot water during a power outage. Suddenly, the situation is much more bearable.

You could even put your fridge on natural gas, in which case the main problem with a power outage becomes the lack of A/C during summer time (since your flashlights, far from being toys, are quite sufficient to deal with the lack of main line electricity lights).

And for that, just go to a local library or book store or mall or to the beach/mountain/lake...during the hottest part of the day, and you can survive quite nicely through a power outage.

Main problem then would be the availability of food, drink, and gas for your car, should the whole area be affected.

PS - you can use your time in the library/bookstore to run your laptop and check your email and other internet necessities. This will also recharge your laptop so you can have a few hours of it at home (thought without internet access).

 

[GarageBoy]

Forget solar, go nuclear!

When I want long run time, out comes my SMJLED inside my Energizer 2AA light, with a shallow reflector. Tosses out a nice WIIIDE spill for a looong time

 

[etc]

A lot of interesting and thought provoking ideas here etc, thanks!

A few points that occur to me:

I have two friends who are into solar power. One has spent quite a bit of time looking whether it makes sense in terms of dollars. Unfortunately, it is still not very economical to go to solar.

....

PS - you can use your time in the library/bookstore to run your laptop and check your email and other internet necessities. This will also recharge your laptop so you can have a few hours of it at home (thought without internet access).

You are right, solar is not that economical right now. Maybe in a few years?

I think it only makes sense now if you buy land cheap and so remote that it would cost a lot to run electric to it. Being off the grid is cool.

The last outage this summer caused a grid-lock. Impossible to get anywhere, library included. Get a lot of food and basic supplies, like gas for the generator.

Having said that, I never liked really dim lites with some crazy runtime. To me, they are just tools to get you going in the areas you really need to. For me, the min is probably 30-40 lumens and anything below that is just too depressingly low. I am somewhat OK with 80 lumens and for real happiness I need 140 lumens.

 

[rgc]

Interesting stuff here. As I have been away from the flashlight scene for quite some time everything has changed. That said the one light I am never without if it be camping, traveling or in my go bag is my Surefire L1. Not exactly sure which generation it is but it is a red LED with 1.1 lumes for 90 hours and 22 lumes for 4 hours. With its optic these are very useful lumes to me be it in a dark house with no electricity or on a trail with no moon light the Surefire 1.1 lumes is more then enough to guide my steps. Plus I am always amazed at how it will throw the 22 lumes to light up the trail ahead.

I think a new E2l might be my next light as 3 lumes for 100 hours sounds rather appealing and the 60 lumes for 11 hours was silly talk just a few years ago.

rgc

 

[etc]

Wow - 90 hours!! Absolutely amazing.

Based in the discussion here I just switched around my collection of battery tubes and Malkoff drop-ins.

I moved the M60LL from the 1x18650, where I had it before with very nice results, to the 3xAA. It is just fine on brightness, quite similar to the 1x18650 output as far as my eye can tell.

That's the flexibility of M60LL - you can run it on almost anything in almost any format.

That freed the 1x18650 tube, and I put in my M30 in it. In a way this is quite optimal for the M30, which has big throw and output in this setup and max runtime.

Had M30 but never found much for it for some reason. Runtime too short.


I also use the M31L in a 2xAA format, which should give between 2-3 hours of runtime (? not sure about this). So perfect for outdoors use.

3 hours I would think. M31LL is another interesting proposition.

I should mention that I was using the M60LL mainly indoors, so was not really needing it to be EDC'able. (In fact I normally also have a diffuser on it). For outdoors, I can instead use the M31L with 2xAA when 120-140 lumens is enough.


I think the beam of M60LL is better outside than M31L. It has a more defined, hotter hotspot and throws more



For bigger outdoors throw, and a more EDC'able format I'll just use the M30. I also have a 3P and a 4.5P format, so if runtime is sufficient for my outdoors use I can use a 1x123 primary or rechargeable, or a 1x18500 (which is a great EDC format, btw) with the M30.

what is 4.5P format?

 

[StarHalo]

327 hours according to the manufacturer, for the 3xC model.

The Streamlight Propolymer 3C has been tested here; it manages right around 40 hours runtime total. Never go by the manufacturer claim.

Would very much prefer that over some tiny AA lite like Gerber Infinity.

The 3" Quark MiniAA manages just under four hours (before dimming) on its 90 lumen high mode, which I have personally verified during a power outage. ~9 hours at the 25 lumen medium and 2+ days at the 2 lumen low, plus it's available in cool, neutral, or warm emitters, for $39. An awesome little blackout light :thumbsup:

 

[angelofwar]

Interesting stuff here. As I have been away from the flashlight scene for quite some time everything has changed. That said the one light I am never without if it be camping, traveling or in my go bag is my Surefire L1. Not exactly sure which generation it is but it is a red LED with 1.1 lumes for 90 hours and 22 lumes for 4 hours. With its optic these are very useful lumes to me be it in a dark house with no electricity or on a trail with no moon light the Surefire 1.1 lumes is more then enough to guide my steps. Plus I am always amazed at how it will throw the 22 lumes to light up the trail ahead.

I think a new E2l might be my next light as 3 lumes for 100 hours sounds rather appealing and the 60 lumes for 11 hours was silly talk just a few years ago.

rgc

Yeppers! After getting my 5th Gen L1, that is a very nice 1.1 Lumens...and with the 90 hour runtime ...:hitit:. I was thinking the other day how nice it would be to have a red one...And I'd probably be looking for one right now if I didn't just grb an A2L-RD off the MP. Also, if you like the older L1's for their runtimes, the E2L won't dissappoint! One of my favorites for sure....don't use it alot, simply for the fact that I want it to be ready when somethnig does happen.

 

[jacktheclipper]

Anyone know the runtime on a 2AA minimag with one of those old three Nichia led dropins . And which would run longer , alkalines or lithium primaries ?

 

[Kestrel]

Just messing around with my FiveMega 2xC with my homebuilt 5mm LED / P60 drop-in after re-reading this 'runtime' thread, I figure that the runtime of my setup here is on the order of ~240 hours @ ~5-10 lumens (comparable in output to my ARC-AAA) with two Alkaline C's. Two NiMH C's don't provide enough voltage to run the 5mm LED with any output to speak of but I could probably run 3x NiMH C's with this drop-in in my FM 3xC body if I really wanted the increased output. :shrug:

And of course, there's always the SF T1A - SureFire specs the runtime @ 1 lumen to be ~70 hours IIRC. Has anyone actually measured how 'low' it can do, I've only read of the comparison 'less than 0.08 lumens'? I could test the runtime at its lowest sustainable level, but I wouldn't want to be without it as an EDC for the month or so that a run might take. :ironic:

[...] the one light I am never without if it be camping, traveling or in my go bag is my Surefire L1. Not exactly sure which generation it is but it is a red LED with 1.1 lumes for 90 hours and 22 lumes for 4 hours. With its optic these are very useful lumes to me be it in a dark house with no electricity or on a trail with no moon light the Surefire 1.1 lumes is more then enough to guide my steps. Plus I am always amazed at how it will throw the 22 lumes to light up the trail ahead.

SureFire really had something good with the low in those L1's. In a few years I'll probably send in my Gen5 SF L1 into Milky for a major remodel and update. At the same time the tailcap will get re-resistored to retain that ~2 lumen low, but the runtime on low with 1x17670 (that longer body can be modified to take it) will be, as they say, 'adequate'. ;)

 

[rgc]

Yeppers! After getting my 5th Gen L1, that is a very nice 1.1 Lumens...and with the 90 hour runtime ...:hitit:. I was thinking the other day how nice it would be to have a red one...

I have started looking for other old L1 Surefire lights as I want one in white and who knows, maybe green too. For me it is just a perfect size and usable light. That said, the last one I saw come up on ebay was going for almost the price of an E1L and that was a little out of my price range for it.

rgc

 

[Burgess]

The 3" Quark MiniAA manages just under four hours (before dimming) on its 90 lumen high mode,
which I have personally verified during a power outage.
~9 hours at the 25 lumen medium and 2+ days at the 2 lumen low . . . .

Hello StarHalo --

What battery type was used for these results ?

Thank you.

 

[StarHalo]

Hello StarHalo --

What battery type was used for these results ?

Energizer Lithium, which has the added bonus of being a light battery in a very light flashlight, feels almost like the battery tube is empty.

 

[flashy bazook]

Thanks for the corrected specs on the 2nd gen Surefire L1 with the red LED! So the 90 hours on low (1.1 lumens) I remembered was correct, but the high (22 lumens, which indeed is quite useful) goes on for 4 hours. So a pretty good long runtime light even after all these years.

On a 4.5P format -- I guess I made this name up. There is the 3P (1x123A), and the 6p (2x123A) format, and these names are well known. The 4.5P (as I named it) takes the 18500, and in length is about half way between the 3P and the 6P. So why not 4.5P?

On the runtime of the 3xC multi-LED pro-poly: I haven't tested the runtime, and obviously 40 hours is a lot less than 327 hours as the manufacturer claimed. Maybe there is a bit of light after 40 hours but it is not very bright? (this is an issue with direct drive light measurements...).

In any case, I've used it since it is my only light that can take the C batteries that I have, and I have enough NiMH C's to run it twice over; so even 80 hours is pretty useful, that's like 2 weeks of 5 hours per night, and it can make visible/navigable a whole corridor somewhere...I am not saying anyone should run out and buy one, but since I have it and its batteries, I keep it going. It's also in a pretty tough plastic body, probably you could throw it in some case somewhere together with other tools and take it out when needed.

On subjective enjoyment of lumens, I agree with etc that 120-140 is nicer than 80 (maybe our eyes are similar?). Still, you can get used to using 80 lumens quite nicely. I do so like to have the 120-140 lumen light nearby though. That's the problem I had with the HDS (now RA) lights when they first came out, it is only quite recently that they started being able to dish out 140-170 lumens.

 

[etc]

Another idea:
If you jump on the Malkoff M31 bandwagon but don't want anything to do with AA cells or CR123A cells or 18650's, another great alternative is that FiveMega 2xC body. You can load it with plain Alkaline cells or NiMH C cells and enjoy either great lumens via M31 or I would think really good runtime with M31LL, once such a device becomes available.
Malkoff M31** is optimized for 3V or 2 Alkaline cells.

 

[OceanView]

The Nite Ize PR base 10mm LED draws about 190ma from 2 cell lights...about 50ma from 3 cell lights and it is nearly twice as bright.
Which would last longer? The 3 cell light.

I got one of these 10mm Nite Ize drop ins a while ago and tried them in a few plastic 2D lights I had around, but was always dissatisfied with the beam. I finally remembered that I had one of those plastic Fulton 3D lights (straight, not an anglehead 2D) which apparently are fairly common as military/government issue.

Anyway, it has a very shallow, not-so-shiny reflector and now the beam is just what a I wanted--floody and relatively smooth, for mostly around-the-house use, like during a power outage. This setup has virtually no throw to speak of. Any light with a deeper reflector was producing horrible artifacts or a beam that was too tight and intense for indoor use.

I think I've found my general purpose household light now. The kind you throw in the kitchen drawer for when the power goes out. Drawing just 50ma, that sucker will last a long, long time. If I need more throw or output, well...I certaily have lights to fill that role, too. lovecpf