Maybe I am just lazy but it seems to me that the majority of the lights around today with multiple levels are overly complicated. Alot of the times this seems to be for the purpose of operating a light one-handed, but this really doesnt seem that important to me personally. I feel like a light should just have an on/off button, and then a labeled ring that you twist and click to whatever setting you want, what is so wrong/difficult about that?
Why are torch interfaces so complicated?
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LukeA
Flashlight Enthusiast
Moving parts is what's wrong with that. It adds lots of mechanical complexity that (most importantly) raises cost.
yeah I guess you're right. Although alot of the high end flashlights are already quite expensive It seems like for many a flashlight connoisseur, a good torch is priceless, how much do you think this kind of mechanism would really add to the cost?
its not only cost (but it at least doubles production time)
its also long term function,
watertightness
reliable function
.
.
.
but SF has lights with such interfaces, iirc
and the best competitor also (normal / turbo operation modes)
its also long term function,
watertightness
reliable function
.
.
.
but SF has lights with such interfaces, iirc
and the best competitor also (normal / turbo operation modes)
Marduke
Flashaholic
Fenix L1T or L2T
I agree with the OP. To name a few others:
-Fenix T1/tk10/tk11 (2 levels)
-Leupold (I think)
-Surefire U2/UA2/UB2
Personally, I'd like to see more lights like this, especially the larger ones. I'm willing to pay the extra cost.
-Fenix T1/tk10/tk11 (2 levels)
-Leupold (I think)
-Surefire U2/UA2/UB2
Personally, I'd like to see more lights like this, especially the larger ones. I'm willing to pay the extra cost.
Not really. The forementioned Dosun R's are as waterproof as all the other non-diving lights out there (IPX-8). And there are solutions that could be implemented to make the mode rings practically 100% watertight and reliable (a magnetic, contactless switching mechanism, for example).
Regarding the "moving parts" argument - that doesn't make any sense. Switches are moving parts as well. How can clicking a switch 5 times be any better or more reliable than twisting a ring 5 notches? More expensive and more complicated to research & develop - yes. Harder to replace once it breaks - sure. Less reliable - nope, not really.
I don't see why there aren't more of them, as i think a ring UI could proove to be extremely popular even with it's higher price point.
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Marduke
Flashaholic
I bezel ring has a lot more parts than a switch, and there is a lot more to fail.
I'll be a Devil's Advocate and disagree with the OP premise.
It is exactly that which he complains about, "complicated" UI's, that has brought us the amazing lights we have available to us today.
The question isn't so much about how complicated a UI is, but how suited to the purpose it is. And we all have many different purposes for which we use lights for, that most of us can find a UI that fits our purpose very well.
We are also seeing an evolution in UI's in that they are getting simpler but still offering "complicated" combinations of features. To that, I say "Great!".
If a simple light was what everyone wanted, all we'd have is a Maglite on the one hand, and a MiniMag for when big is too big.
And who wants to live in a world like that? :green:
It is exactly that which he complains about, "complicated" UI's, that has brought us the amazing lights we have available to us today.
The question isn't so much about how complicated a UI is, but how suited to the purpose it is. And we all have many different purposes for which we use lights for, that most of us can find a UI that fits our purpose very well.
We are also seeing an evolution in UI's in that they are getting simpler but still offering "complicated" combinations of features. To that, I say "Great!".
If a simple light was what everyone wanted, all we'd have is a Maglite on the one hand, and a MiniMag for when big is too big.
And who wants to live in a world like that? :green:
alibaba
Enlightened
Nitecore D10/EX10. You can easily set whatever level you like and it'll remember it and yet there are "shortcuts" to min. or max. on both clicky mode and momentary mode. Ramping is pretty quick and you can reach any level from any level in 3-4 seconds. Super simple for an adjustable light.
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
Surefire has been making L1/L2/A2s for how many years now?
LED-holic
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you can use a cellphone and text message, if you can drive a car and operate the radio, if you can turn on a PC and go on the internet to find this forum to post, then operating a flashlight, no matter how complex, should seem relatively trivial.
I truly don't understand how people can find these lights all that complicated. The only ones that hard to operate, imo, are the LiteFlux LF2X lights and similar which you have to twist several times to program. The twisting without visible feedback is what makes it a bit hard to set up. But once set up, piece of cake to use.
I'm too lazy to program, but not too lazy to use the lights.
I truly don't understand how people can find these lights all that complicated. The only ones that hard to operate, imo, are the LiteFlux LF2X lights and similar which you have to twist several times to program. The twisting without visible feedback is what makes it a bit hard to set up. But once set up, piece of cake to use.
I'm too lazy to program, but not too lazy to use the lights.
WadeF
Flashlight Enthusiast
While some may complain about complicated UI's, I say why aren't there MORE torches with fancy UI's? 
The market is flooded with simple on/off flashlights. Go visit Target, Walmart, your grocery store, simple flashlights are everywhere. That's why I come to CPF, to seek out more advanced flashlights that offer more than your average off the shelf flashlight.
There are plenty of options for those who want a simple flashlight. So now we have people complaining that some companies dare make a flashlight with a "complicated" UI? So no one should make a flashlight with an advanced UI, because if they do, someone will complain about it?
"Why are torch interfaces so complicated?" last I checked the majority of torches on the market are simple ON/OFF, and the minority, the niche market of flashlights, have "complicated" interfaces.
If you want off and on with a dial, try a Surefire U2. To say ALL flashlights made should have the same on/off with a dial is ridiculous. The more flavors the better.
The market is flooded with simple on/off flashlights. Go visit Target, Walmart, your grocery store, simple flashlights are everywhere. That's why I come to CPF, to seek out more advanced flashlights that offer more than your average off the shelf flashlight.There are plenty of options for those who want a simple flashlight. So now we have people complaining that some companies dare make a flashlight with a "complicated" UI? So no one should make a flashlight with an advanced UI, because if they do, someone will complain about it?
"Why are torch interfaces so complicated?" last I checked the majority of torches on the market are simple ON/OFF, and the minority, the niche market of flashlights, have "complicated" interfaces.
If you want off and on with a dial, try a Surefire U2. To say ALL flashlights made should have the same on/off with a dial is ridiculous. The more flavors the better.
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Mike Painter
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,863
Possibly true but until th electronics have been around a long time there is no way to know if the current ones will last as long as mechanical devices.
Based on what I've seen in the first round or two of electronics, the answer will be no.
E.G. I did a stupid thing and put a set of batteries in backwards. The mechanical parts of my light did not fail. The electronic went boom.
The bottom line for me is that I feel that if I have an adjustable light I must be able to set the level before I turn it on as well as adjust it *rapidly* in either direction once on.
You can't do this with electronics and I think a good pot will last longer than I would be using the light.
try use some of these "same" rugged and waterproof lights with outside twist ring function in a cave environment, where they get muddy
I agree on that battery part. Protection against reverse inserting should be usual with any electronics. As long as this is not the case, the user has to be aware (and possibly not mix up lights that are different - one point why I use my Inovas ONLY as hosts, get out everything and mod them. The bodys are great)
... but You are wrong on that "poti and simple mechanical parts" part. If You insert batts wrong way in a direct drive light, the led is killed instantly also. No help against reverse inserting
PS: I would not bet anything on long time life of cheap lights, but the life of mechanical as well as electrical parts of good production lights and - even more - good mods will outlast the user for sure, imho.
My modded 6P now stands 1 year of mountainbiking (mounted on bars) and other rough, bumpy uses without problems.
Same with the Inovas (and with them its the mechanical parts - the crappy switch - that makes problems, not the electronics)
I agree on that battery part. Protection against reverse inserting should be usual with any electronics. As long as this is not the case, the user has to be aware (and possibly not mix up lights that are different - one point why I use my Inovas ONLY as hosts, get out everything and mod them. The bodys are great)
... but You are wrong on that "poti and simple mechanical parts" part. If You insert batts wrong way in a direct drive light, the led is killed instantly also. No help against reverse inserting
PS: I would not bet anything on long time life of cheap lights, but the life of mechanical as well as electrical parts of good production lights and - even more - good mods will outlast the user for sure, imho.
My modded 6P now stands 1 year of mountainbiking (mounted on bars) and other rough, bumpy uses without problems.
Same with the Inovas (and with them its the mechanical parts - the crappy switch - that makes problems, not the electronics)
dmonay
Newly Enlightened
I like the new Surefire's with the clickie switch, max output or minimum output. They're easy to use and they get the job done.
I'd like to see more manufacturers make lights this way.
Like Inova T series lights. :thumbsup:
I'd like to see more manufacturers make lights this way.
Like Inova T series lights. :thumbsup:
Depends on the way it's implemented... And depends on whether we're talking about how complicated the implementation is or how much parts it has (it's not the same thing).
Clickies are mechanically pretty complicated. Rings can be made an order of magnitude more simple. Also, like i said, they can be made with absolutely no access to the interior of the flashlight.
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