Why Does HA3 Endure?

[Gene]

I've asked this question before and received a ton of silence or at the very least that HA3 can withstand anything you can throw at it and how dare I? Surefire claims, (or used to), that you can use their HA3 coated lights as a "file" to grind off other flashlights' surfaces. That's all fine and well but when you realize that most other flashlights' exteriors are coated in nothing more than paint, that's not saying much. Stop right here Al, I'm not slamming SF! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've even read where HA3 will dull a knife blade before it scratches. Yeah, so will a piece of glass! Still, drop a HA3 coated light on concrete or even some softer surfaces and the HA is scratched or marred. When that "super hard" HA gouges, you've got some bright spots from the softer aluminum underneath that will stay unless the HA is removed and the body polished out.

Hell, just putting a SOFT, (as far as stainless goes), split ring on HA3, will scratch it! I have two SF "rough users" in HA3. Just carrying them with keys or change, much less dropping them, they look like maglites in that their HA3 is gone in places and is wearing quickly.

I've seen a trend here lately where raw aluminum lights with no coatings have made a significant jump in popularity. I welcome it! If you do drop a raw aluminum light onto concrete, the gouges can be quickly polished out with a backyard grinder or at the very least a Dremel tool.

I realize most high end HA flashlights here on CPF are not used regularly, (come on, be honest!), except to be shone in a back yard or at a white wall. I think we all would use them more if we didn't have to worry about the "indestructible" HA3 that could be marred or scratched at the slightest provocation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I welcome more raw aluminum lights or better coatings!

 

[mossyoak]

ha3 is extremely durable but the soft aluminum under the ha3 is what causes the ha3 to dent and mar and it will cut many other lights namely the maglite brand and they are not painted they have type 2 finish and ha3 is alot harder (durable) than type 2. hope this helps

 

[AW]

I agree with Gene that HA3 is not up to its hype. It is real easy to be scratched. The HA3 on my ARC LSH can even be rubbed off by heavy twisting ( I can see the lightening of color of the HA3 around the knurling ). However, it is still better than the HA2.

 

[bfg9000]

Probably the most durable yet cheap finish would be stainless steel, but as the tooling for machining soft metals like brass or aluminum is far cheaper, HA3 will be with us for a long time. HA3 resembles ceramic in many ways--hard yet brittle: just think of the aluminum oxide insulator on a spark plug, only here it's a few microns thick and on top of a soft metal. When the soft substrate deforms, little micro cracks form and allow tiny bits to fall off, which we see as wear.

 

[AW]

That explains something /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

 

[Double_A]

Every expensive light I own is coated HAIII if it's offered, without fail!

Why?, because after a year of use a HAIII light will still look nice and every single Type II anodized light looks like absolute poop!

If I'm going to pay nearly $300 for my SF M6 (years ago) or $160 for my SF M3, I want them to look nice after a few years of use.

I LOVE HAIII !!!!

 

[Codeman]

I'm quite happy with HAIII as well. As long as the underlying material is aluminum, any coating will crack when subjected to impacts - unless a coating is invented that is so strong and tough that it can absorb all of the force of impact, in which case we can do away with the aluminum body altogether and just use the coating and a conductor to complete the electrical circuit.

HAIII isn't intended to protect against impacts so I don't expect it to. Within it's intended design, HAIII's hype is justified and it delivers. It's only when HAIII is expected to do more than it was designed to that it fails.

 

[thesurefire]

I also thought that HAIII was very chemical resistant /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

 

[NewBie]

Keep in mind there are a very wide variety of Aluminum alloys. Any flashlight you buy is going to be made from an Aluminum alloy.

That said, there are alumimum alloys that are much tougher than what is typically used in flashlights. Then you can also get into tempered aluminum, such as T6 or T8.

But, they get harder and harder to machine, and machining takes more time. The cost of the material also goes up. And flashlight makers utilize some of the cheapest alloys on the market, it means more profit in their pocket...

Be careful to stay away from some of the hard brittle aluminum alloys.

 

[Unicorn]

Some of actually need a tactical type flashlight to be dark colored so as to not give away our position when we don't have them turned on. It's sort of like why we have black guns. Sure the loud bang, and the muzzle flash will give us away, but hopefully it's when we want that to happen.

 

[Double_A]

[ QUOTE ]
Unicorn said:
Some of actually need a tactical type flashlight to be dark colored so as to not give away our position when we don't have them turned on. It's sort of like why we have black guns. Sure the loud bang, and the muzzle flash will give us away, but hopefully it's when we want that to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]


If I remember correctly it was Jeff Cooper the grandad of combat shooting who once did a test. He compared silvery stainless steel guns that were just starting to be the rage to conventional shiny blue steel guns. Many police departments were not happy with silvery revolvers. The test showed shiny blue steel stood out more than matt finish silver stainless.

What reflected light and was noticible, was more a function of surface reflectivity than color. Although color WILL play a part, reflectivity plays a bigger part.

 

[Longbow]

Perhaps the heading title should read: "Why does HA III remain popular?" Because Surefire uses it? Maybe. I'd guess that if Surefire used rubarb sauce there'd be a handful of people that would want there lights coated with rubarb sauce. Scraping/cutting HA III will dull a knife. Duh... so will cutting/scraping paper. HA III is not indistructible, just more durable than HA II. There are many coatings better than HA III, albeit more expensive. I, like some of the other CPF'ers, prefer bare aluminum.. easy to keep looking new.

 

[newo]

There is a lot to be said for bare metal in terms of maintenance for a piece that is regularly used. Not true of firearms, perhaps, but certainly true of knives, and IMHO, flashlights. When manufacturers conclude that they can make money putting out product without HA, they will do so.

 

[dougmccoy]

HA111 isn't about it's ability to shrug off impact damage or resist continual wear. HA111 is about providing a surface finish which is more resistant to wear than HA11. HA111 also provides good anti-corrosion protection without having to 'mummy' the coated aluminum.
Bare aluminum exposed to most types of environmental contaminents quickly tarnishes before sulphating. If thats what some people want great! Me I'd rather stick with HA111.
Doug

 

[Unicorn]

[ QUOTE ]
Double_A said:
[ QUOTE ]
Unicorn said:
Some of actually need a tactical type flashlight to be dark colored so as to not give away our position when we don't have them turned on. It's sort of like why we have black guns. Sure the loud bang, and the muzzle flash will give us away, but hopefully it's when we want that to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]


If I remember correctly it was Jeff Cooper the grandad of combat shooting who once did a test. He compared silvery stainless steel guns that were just starting to be the rage to conventional shiny blue steel guns. Many police departments were not happy with silvery revolvers. The test showed shiny blue steel stood out more than matt finish silver stainless.

What reflected light and was noticible, was more a function of surface reflectivity than color. Although color WILL play a part, reflectivity plays a bigger part.

[/ QUOTE ]

And HA3 is usually a matte, non-reflective finish is it not? therefore, when I'm crawling around the woods, or the desert, or sneaking up to a building I'm about to assault, I'll take a matte cark color, over any matte light color any day (or night).

 

[cognitivefun]

My HA3 X5T scratches when it is in my pocket with my keychain. I'm not terribly impressed with the finish.

 

[Double_A]

[ QUOTE ]
Unicorn said:
[ QUOTE ]
Double_A said:
[ QUOTE ]
Unicorn said:
Some of actually need a tactical type flashlight to be dark colored so as to not give away our position when we don't have them turned on. It's sort of like why we have black guns. Sure the loud bang, and the muzzle flash will give us away, but hopefully it's when we want that to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]


If I remember correctly it was Jeff Cooper the grandad of combat shooting who once did a test. He compared silvery stainless steel guns that were just starting to be the rage to conventional shiny blue steel guns. Many police departments were not happy with silvery revolvers. The test showed shiny blue steel stood out more than matt finish silver stainless.

What reflected light and was noticible, was more a function of surface reflectivity than color. Although color WILL play a part, reflectivity plays a bigger part.

[/ QUOTE ]

And HA3 is usually a matte, non-reflective finish is it not? therefore, when I'm crawling around the woods, or the desert, or sneaking up to a building I'm about to assault, I'll take a matte cark color, over any matte light color any day (or night).

[/ QUOTE ]

How about matt black boots contrasting against that desert sand & soil?
Have you been issued the NEW light brown/tan boots yet? Just because it's always been done like that doesn't make it right. But If you want to stick with tradition just for the sake of tradition then that's fine with me.

 

[Gene]

I realize that some folks such as military and others need subdued coatings on their equipment but that's not one of my requirements. I also realize that HA3 is a fairly decent coating but I'm not impressed with it's durablity after using it for several years.

Actually, I should have titled this thread; "I'm Glad Some Modders And Others Are Giving Us The Choice Of Bare Aluminum." If I was looking for another SF light and SF gave me the choice of HA3 or bare aluminum, I would choose the bare aluminum every time. Small to medium nicks that produce ugly shiny spots from the aluminum underneath the HA3 can be easily buffed out on bare aluminum.

This is all IMHO but I've really come to like bare aluminum lights a lot! It's also a nice change from the drab and boring HA3 color and especially the rainbow of hues that HA3 comes in nowadays.

 

[PocketBeam]

What about for people that don't buff out thier lights? I had hade bare aluminum and dropped it, I would just live with it. Same as I would for HA3 or HA2. But I don't drop lights. (crosses fingers)

So, for me, which is better HA3 or bare? Which will look better after normal wear and tear and without any maintenance?

 

[haley1]

I use HAIII lights everyday at work. I have some old HAII lights that are very scratched up and HAIII the same, it just takes longer. In the end they all get beat, but HAIII still remains more unobtursive. If you just want something that looks good, bare or krylon reaplied often. But for hard use HAIII. Just my experience and opinion.