Why I love LED's, And Won't Use Incandescent.

[glock_nor_cal]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

Thanks for the comments guys. I ended up selling that M6 on ebay shortly after the incident.
As far as how I lost the L4.
I ended up walking about a mile down the brambled, rocky shore to the cold streams where the salmon were having a party in my honor, and came back with one of the guests.
http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/419eed3ez493c8289/1cf0/__sr_/a2c5.jpg?phnzzqCBLl2Lsmgj
This is the biggest fish I have ever caught (I'm not a fisherman). On the walk back i slipped on a rock into the river, but in a desperate effort to not damage my dinner, I managed to keep the fish out of harms way. My flashlight was not so lucky. Upon getting back to camp, and dumbfounding everyone (they told me before I left that no one ever caught fish on the river that time of year), I realized that my L4 wasn't clipped to my bathing suit anymore. It was too dark at that point to go back and look for it, and we had to move down river early the next morning, so my flashlight was lost forever. I only hope that someone later picked it up and got an awesome souvenior.

As I see it, when do you really NEED to throw longer then an L6 will throw? I'm not talking about satisfying your inner geek and going down to a soccer field at midnight to run "scientific tests." If you're in Law Enforcement and you want to light up something at a great distance, you use your car's spot or alley lights. I've got several freinds in LE, and you'd be hard pressed to get them to justify an ultrastinger's price let alone a $160 surefire that lasts an hour on 10 dollar batteries--they'd just laugh at you.
Honestly I was very dissapointed with the M6's throw. The next strongest light I had before it was an M3T, and I expected their to be a huge difference, but their wasn't. I don't know what HID is, but I plan on checking it out. I understand it is super white beam with no bulb to break (like LED) and it has incredible throw. Here's a question, if HID is so amazing, why aren't all surefire's HID, and we just loose incandescent altogether?

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

HID is a fragile lamp. It's made of an inner glass envelope surrounded by an outer one. It needs a high voltage supply to strike the arc inside, and it takes a few moments to warm up and achieve full brightness. Yes, it's a very white light, but it's too expensive and fragile for day to day use as a single drop would likely destroy the bulb.

 

[Double_A]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

"As I see it, when do you really NEED to throw longer then an L6 will throw?"

I often need to inspect equipment from a distance often 30-40 feet away, bright enough to see details accurately. Sometimes, when there is a leak of a hazardous substance the further the better. I also need something that renders the color as true as possible as often obtaining an accurate color of what's leaking help in identification. Dim light levels and off color light sources can distort things enough that they are not really helpful unless I get closer than I like to be.

 

[cslinger]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

Agree with LEDs for 90% of my or most uses. Love the toughness and beam qualities. For indoor use and my person EDC LED is the way to go.

I do have a couple of scorcher hot wires though such as a Streamlight TL2 and Strion. When you want bright light that throws these two lights handily stomp even my Inova X03/T3.

There are times when incan light is just better, hence my favorite light being the Surefire A2 aviator. I also have Streamlight Twin tasks in the cars for that very reason.

For 90% or more of my uses though LED is the way to go.

Chris

 

[MaxaBaker]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonWrangler said:
HID is a fragile lamp. It's made of an inner glass envelope surrounded by an outer one. It needs a high voltage supply to strike the arc inside, and it takes a few moments to warm up and achieve full brightness. Yes, it's a very white light, but it's too expensive and fragile for day to day use as a single drop would likely destroy the bulb.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm glad HID was at least mentioned.......HID is my preferred method of lighting (for the lumens, color, and efficiency), fallowed by incans (I love the raw lumens!), fallowed by LEDs ( for their reliability).

 

[_mike_]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

LED's and incandescents both have their place. When I want good run times, and yes a certain amount of durability I reach for my LED lights. But when I need to put a bright spot on something several hundred feet away, I reach for my Mag85. The Mag85 is pretty much the light I use around the property for checking things during winds storms, like our power lines. Nice to be able to safely check things out from a distance sometimes. Or, if the dog starts getting excited I check things out.

My Brinkmann Legend LX also gets used quite often when I don't feel like lugging the Mag85. Though not nearly as bright, it's a little more pocketable and has better "throw" than my LED lights.

My lights are like my tool box. I have different tools for different jobs, and different lights for different tasks. Both types have their strengths and weaknesses. I will say this though. The best light in the world is the one (provided it works) you have with you when the lights go out regardless of what it is.

 

[Gene]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

By the way, WELCOME Bawko!

glock_nor_cal,
Sorry to get a little off topic here but I also wanted to welcome you to the MINORITY here with your feelings concerning the SF M6. It's one of the "Holy Grails" here and for the life of me, I've never understood why. I wanted one of the "sun-in-your-hand" M6's ever since they first came out. I finally sprang for one about 1 1/2 years ago and was totally disappointed. Wonderful SF build quality of course but the beam and light it produced, (to me!), even with the HOLA, let's just say, made me want to rename it "MOON-in-your-hand"! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Even though I'm a LED sort of guy, I think there's a place for wires. I live on a mountainside and get socked in a lot with clouds and weather. The incans to me, just penetrate clouds, moisture and other adverse conditions better than LED's and as others have stated, can throw like crazy.

I've tried just about every LED configuration out there but I recently received my first "hotwire", that is a custom high voltage driven Maglite. It's a cut-down Mag 1XD running either a WA1331 or WA1166 halogen bulb with three Pila 168S rechargeable Li-Ion cells. It's everything a SF M6 should be and MUCH more! Small, BRIGHT, rechargeable, doesn't get hot or shutdown and throws like a light sabre! Yeah, there's still a place for wires.

 

[NeonLights]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

[ QUOTE ]
glock_nor_cal said:
As I see it, when do you really NEED to throw longer then an L6 will throw? I'm not talking about satisfying your inner geek and going down to a soccer field at midnight to run "scientific tests." Honestly I was very dissapointed with the M6's throw. The next strongest light I had before it was an M3T, and I expected their to be a huge difference, but their wasn't.

[/ QUOTE ]
Back when I owned a couple of Surefire M6's, I "needed" them multiple times. Ever try searching for a black dog in the country on a pitch-black night? We used to have a Newfoundland that would get out on occasion. We have close neighbors, but have farmland in front and behind the house, and our neighbors have unlit back yards. My wife and I would each grab an M6 and it wouldn't take long to find him. I used to own a SF L6 too, it would have been practically worthless for searching for my dog. Not nearly as much throw and much less overall light output (and not much definition at any real distance). A SF M6 isn't for everyone, and for many people a hand-held rechargeable spotlight will do ok ofr about 5-10% of the price.

-Keith

 

[VidPro]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

so for the led to (attempt to) replace incadescent, they need to make a light that Throws well, and DUMPS (mabey entirely) the blue.
they now have high output RGB , if you dont use the blue on a rgb you get better through the fog and light the bushes type of lighting.

because WHITE leds arent really 'white', that is a lot of the coloration problem, but untill you hotwire a incadescent and WHITE burn it, it isnt so white either (ugly yellow)

so wouldnt the ultimate LED competitive light:
1) have at least a ability for huge throw (adjustable someday:-(
2) have a way to TRIM or even discard the blue, with a trim of the blue you could get better white than EITHER white leds or incandescents, with an ability to discard the blue entirly (without wasting it on filters) you can get the bust through the water reflection going better.

a RED-GREEN combo in the bright stuff , puts out a yellow light, that isnt TERRIBLE yellow, the blues are discarded when trying to light it, but just like a cyan light its still usable for illumination.

Which leaves, then how Efficient will a RGB LED light be without phosphors.
SO, add in the phosphors , i think they can have phosphors in many different frequencies, if a rgb was created that triggered colored phosphors efficientally (even if you have to start with ir or uv).
then you get 2X efficiency, incadescent coloration.

 

[jayflash]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

My experience is similar to NeonLights regarding LEDs. I used to feel that incans were unreliable but have found that LEDs haven't held up any better to hard knocks or age.

It seems that if an incan doesn't blow shortly after it's new that it will, generally, last a decent amount of time.

My theory is that the LED drive circuitry is the weak link and is what fails. You have to admit that LED lights are more complex and are impossible to "relamp" in the field.

Most of us aren't relying on our lights in the heat of a gun battle and, therefore, have time to easily replace a bum incan lamp.

My flashlight preference is...BOTH. My pocket EDC is still the Arc AAA, but my work EDC varies between incan & LED. They both have certain advantages and I'm not ready to say: "never" to owning a particular type of light engine. Of course, this is only what I've experienced so far and I will probably change my opinion as flashlights evolve and LEDs (hopefully) become even more efficient and rugged.

 

[NeonLights]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

I wasn't trying to bash LED's in general, I still EDC LED's and own and use quite a few, to reiterate though, LED's can't be counted on anymore than incans for durability in my experience (if you absolutely have to have a light for the task at hand, always carry a backup), and for some tasks incans are definitely far superior (just as for some tasks LED's are superior). The complexity and electronics used in most LED lights seem to be their big weakness. Most incans I have are very simple in design and use.

Lately my non-work EDC has been an ARC AAA and a SF E2e, although the the E2e is sometimes replaced by an E1L (for a more compact carry), or an A2 (for more versatility). I've never had a SF LED light fail though, and I've owned them all at one time or another, except the U2.

-Keith

 

[nightshade]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

Totally agree with Neons post. I believe there is no fail proof light. I have seen failures and quality control issues in every major brand I have purchased in quantity with very few exceptions. Waiting on returns of a defective SF KL1 and a Pelican M6 Incan as I type.
You want that warm, secure feeling? As Neonlights stated -carry a back-up. Also, don't be totally shocked when all of your equipment fails. Murphy is always waiting.

 

[cslinger]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

[ QUOTE ]
-carry a back-up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two is one, one is none. Learn it, Know it, Live it.

Chris

 

[NikolaTesla]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

Jayflash mentions drivers failing and other problems.
Just make the light industructable direct drive LED Luxeon III multi emitter. Even if a few die, they are direct wired in different circuits so SOME of them will light. Gee and these all have passed several drop tests. 6 bright LED's can give some healthy amount of light (432 lumens) too. No electronics or tricky stuff= Reliability. They light up a LOT longer on near dead batteries than Incan too.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[idleprocess]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

Heat kills solid-state electronics - LEDs included. Design your stuff with ample margins even under worst-case conditions, and you'll be allright. It's like the old rule with resistors - if you use a half-watt resistor, design the circuit so the resistor will never see more than a quarter-watt under any defined operating condition.

In the case of LEDs, there are 2 killers. Either the LED accumulates too much heat, or is overdriven (a variant on too much heat). Too much heat can kill the die or melt a bond wire. Overdrive can do the same things or degrade the phosphor in white LEDs.

5mm LED lights are notorious for failing - usually because the electronics design sucks. Parallel arrays of 5mm LEDs driven directly will invariably fail early. Direct-drive is usually a bad idea unless you're damn-sure of the LED's Vf (which is impossible due to the effects of Vf shift after "burn in"). There's also the issue of the 5mm package's poor thermal management.

Simple voltage boost circuits with no real current regulation have problems. If battery voltage is a touch high and/or the emitter Vf is lower than expected, overdrive can result, complete with unwanted release of the magic smoke.

As for LEDs vs incandescent - whatever works for you. My Legend LX has better output than most of my LED lights (and cost less), but certainly doesn't throw any better. On the other hand, the bulbs are tough to locate and the battery life sucks.

 

[LightObsession]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

I have yet to see an LED flashlight with color rendering which I prefer to that of my Brinkman Maxfire rechargeable. Of course, I haven't had the opportunity to compare it with any of the 3w or 5w LED lights. I'd consider laying out the cash for a brighter & whiter LED light if the color rendering was as good as the Maxfire.

Durability? My Costco 2AA 1w died the first time it was dropped just 2.5' onto my sidewalk. The problem was somewhere inside the "pill" and was inaccessible, thus not repairable.

 

[lamperich]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

i think led´s are the future too

but When i compare it to the Krypton hotwires there is one thing i really don´t like
It´s the bad color rendering outside.

Example When i walk thru gras with my Xm3 Clone and my other LUXeon1 torch than i have to look twice if there is mud.

Also when i light up a tree.

With a hotwire i don´t have problems to see the old death branch.


I don´t know why this is so.

maybe a lower Color temp. (more Yellow) will solve this (my) problem.
But unfortunately i don´t have any practical experinece with that ;-/

 

[Donovan]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonWrangler said:
... the incredibly better color rendering. ... LED flashlight makes an amazing difference in the vividness of the colors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting! I find LEDs to have MUCH Worse color rendering than incans! Incans are so much better at showing true colors than any LED light I have seen...

 

[cognitivefun]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

Yes, incans have great color and contrast compared to LEDs. LEDs are "ghost light", washed out without the warmth and contrast of incans. No comparison and something I don't like about LEDs.

 

[JanCPF]

Re: Why I love LED\'s, And Won\'t Use Incandescent.

It's quite interesting how we disagree on this color rendering matter. I think luxeon LED's do a far better job of color rendering than incans when it's dark. Especially in the great outdoors. I've used lots of incans including a SF-C2 (which is supposed to have a good white beam) but find that everything in the forest looks like it has a brownish cast to it. The leaves looks much to yellow/green (like when it's springtime) than they do in daylight. With LED (Luxeon that is) lights however everything looks more balanced like it looks in daytime. I have no problem with red colors either using a Luxeon light. Red and orange colors stand out in vivid contrast, whereas with an incan everything more or less looks orange, thus making it more difficult to distinguish true red or orange. Same thing at the other end of the spectrum. Blue looks downright black (no reflection) with an incan, whereas with a Luxeon light it shows lots color. This is one of the resons I have stopped using incans altogether.

Anyone have an explanation on why our opinions differ so much in this aspect? - Interesting.

5 mm. LEDs however is *not* good for color rendition IMHO.

Jan