Sold/Expired WTB +1500 lumen torch

[hkusp9]

I think Justin Case is getting ready to sell a regulated Mag623 in a 4D mag host. It's run off of 5xIMR 26500s. I have one that he built, and it puts out a cool 6800 lumens for the full runtime, since it's regulated at 15.5v and putting out 160 watts. It's unbelievable, once you turn it on in your hand. I don't have any beamshots, since I just got it. It's basically the mother of all mag build incans.

A key advantage of this setup is that you can swap out the bulb for a 64440, which will give you a full 2700 lumens. This is much more manageable, since the light and heat of a 64623 lamp really makes it just for show. There are couple of other bulbs you can put in it for even less power, if you need more runtime. I'm going to try a Hikari JC-5033 bulb, just $2.25 each from Amazon, for a 1600 lumen, long runtime version.

This is an extremely versatile light. The regulation means that the light is constant throughout the run, with no dimming whatsoever. It has a low voltage warning, so you know when your light needs a battery change.

The 4D maglite is actually very light with 5 IMR cells in it, it feels as handy as a 3D maglite with alkaline cells in it.

-John

everything yal said was pretty much just french until this guy, Hes giving me size, runtime, and lumen specs which is something that i can understand.

Somebody mentioned my quote about how " i cant solder this stuff together and test it", hes right, shamefully I CANT!

Im very interestd in this rig though. I would love to know what the projected price and availability are. I only like LED's becuase they throw out that nice white natural light instead of the yellowish light that incans do. Its easier for my brain to discern shapes and colors and stuff while under stress when using a LED. Also, I hear that incan bulbs wear out quick if you dont let the filament warm up before you turn them off, like you have to run them 3 seconds minimum when you turn them on. That doesnt work for clearing back yards and fields and stuff when you dont want to leave the light on all the time and be standing behind it.

The 4D is a little big, but i can learn to deal with it if the thing will run at a good manageable 2500-3000 lumens.

Plus the old guys tell me they're good clubs.

 

[hkusp9]

As jaundice wrote, I have a single mode, Mag623 build that I am considering selling. PM me if interested. This is an incan, not an LED, so it may not meet your stated requirements. Note, however, that this is a regulated incandescent flashlight. It will feed constant voltage to a bulb for as long as your batteries hold out. Thus, light output will be constant, just like for a light bulb in your house that gets a constant 120V.

I can re-configure the Mag mod for a Hikari JC5607 lamp. This lamp runs at 1500 OTF lumens. It is also an inexpensive lamp, readily available on the Internet.

The Mag623 build uses a Kiu socket, JimmyM regulator, aluminum orange peel reflector, and glass window. The tail spring is cut down to easily fit 5xIMR26500 cells in the 4D host body. I also pack in alumina fiber insulation around the Kiu socket to protect everything from excess heat from the lamp. It's probably as rugged as the original, stock Mag.

that mag 623 looks absolutely identical to my blackbear borealis light that is only a 1000 lumens. The borealis has alot of light, its nice but the light isnt real durable. If you drop it the bulb get knocked out of center and you have to take the light apart to recenter the bulb. Also, my BIGGEST gripe about the blackbear borealis, is that when you drop it, the ceramic and aluminum switch gets knocked forward towards the head. That aluminum snap ring in there in the machined body isnt strong enough to hold the switch in place.

 

[hkusp9]

also, im willing to play with incans again, but if i go this route, i want to go big lumens, like +2000. I can buy a 1200 solarforce incan light for like $85 bucks, and it seems like incan lights dont appear as bright lumen for lumen when compared to LED lights.

So yeah, incans are cool, you just have to make em bang!

 

[hkusp9]

JUSTIN CASE,

I think i figured out how to PM you correctly, if not, get PM me and i will figure out how to read it. Im interested in your mega lumen light.

 

[Justin Case]

The 4D loaded with lighter weight Li-ion cells swings faster than with the heavier D alkalines. Faster bat speed, more home runs.

If you use the Hikari 5607 bulb for 1500 out the front lumens, you should be able to get close to 1 hr run time. If you use the Osram 64440 bulb for greater lumens, you still can get about 1/2 hr total run time.

PM me for more details.

 

[jaundice]

I only like LED's becuase they throw out that nice white natural light instead of the yellowish light that incans do. Its easier for my brain to discern shapes and colors and stuff while under stress when using a LED. Also, I hear that incan bulbs wear out quick if you dont let the filament warm up before you turn them off, like you have to run them 3 seconds minimum when you turn them on. That doesnt work for clearing back yards and fields and stuff when you dont want to leave the light on all the time and be standing behind it.

The 4D is a little big, but i can learn to deal with it if the thing will run at a good manageable 2500-3000 lumens.

This light is driven pretty hard, so the light is very white, not yellow at all. Justin can set the softstart to "fast", so it'll come on quick, no worries about slow starting.

Although large, the 4D with lithium cells is lighter than a with Alkalines, so the balance is very good.

Justin can set this thing up any way you want, so talk to him about what your requirements are, and he can set up bulbs, voltages, and everything to get you squared away. He's very good to work with. I've had him build three lights for me.

-John

 

[Justin Case]

that mag 623 looks absolutely identical to my blackbear borealis light that is only a 1000 lumens. The borealis has alot of light, its nice but the light isnt real durable. If you drop it the bulb get knocked out of center and you have to take the light apart to recenter the bulb. Also, my BIGGEST gripe about the blackbear borealis, is that when you drop it, the ceramic and aluminum switch gets knocked forward towards the head. That aluminum snap ring in there in the machined body isnt strong enough to hold the switch in place.

If I understand correctly, the Borealis host is basically a D Maglite. I haven't done any torture testing on my Mag623 build. But I'm surprised that the switch in your Borealis would shift forward when the light is dropped. I can see the weight of the batteries trying to push forward. But I would have expected the c-clip to hold the switch firmly in place. Does the switch have a grub screw, like the stock Mag switch? The sharp point of the grub screw digs into the aluminum wall of the Mag body. It's hard for me to imagine that the batteries can break the grub screw free.

My build uses the grub screw. I remove the c-clip, so that you can slide the switch in/out from the top. I can put the clip back in if desired.

I'm also surprised that the Borealis bulb gets knocked loose. Perhaps the Kiu socket's grip on the smaller legs of the bi-pin lamp used in the Borealis is weaker than for the bigger legs on an Osram 64440-IRC?

 

[hkusp9]

If I understand correctly, the Borealis host is basically a D Maglite. I haven't done any torture testing on my Mag623 build. But I'm surprised that the switch in your Borealis would shift forward when the light is dropped. I can see the weight of the batteries trying to push forward. But I would have expected the c-clip to hold the switch firmly in place. Does the switch have a grub screw, like the stock Mag switch? The sharp point of the grub screw digs into the aluminum wall of the Mag body. It's hard for me to imagine that the batteries can break the grub screw free.

My build uses the grub screw. I remove the c-clip, so that you can slide the switch in/out from the top. I can put the clip back in if desired.

I'm also surprised that the Borealis bulb gets knocked loose. Perhaps the Kiu socket's grip on the smaller legs of the bi-pin lamp used in the Borealis is weaker than for the bigger legs on an Osram 64440-IRC?

Yep, it gets knocked loose, I have dropped it several times and every time i was in the 24/7 auto zone with a flathead screwdriver and a mallet trying to knock the switch assembly down again. The video on the manufacturers website shows him throwing it 30 feet in the air and the light stays on. But you drop it 3 feet from your belt and its guts get all knocked out of whack. and Yeah, that grub screw that goes through the button and the c clip still arent durable enough to hold it in place when its dropped. THere needs to be a spacer between internal switch body and the reflector or something.

Try with one of your lights, drop it on the bezel from waist high and see if anything moves. If not, then im REALLY interested.

 

[Justin Case]

I'll try it on carpet since I don't want to goober up a pristine light that I might want to sell. The impact won't be as severe as on concrete or asphalt, but that's the best I can do right now.

Did you ever insert a thick pin lamp into the Borealis, and then subsequently used a thinner pin lamp? The way the Kiu socket works, if you stick in a thick pin lamp, the socket clamps apparently take some sort of set. Thus, going back to a thin pin lamp will result in a potentially loose fit.

 

[guiri]

everything yal said was pretty much just french until this guy, Hes giving me size, runtime, and lumen specs which is something that i can understand.

Somebody mentioned my quote about how " i cant solder this stuff together and test it", hes right, shamefully I CANT!

That was me and nothing to be ashamed of. I can't do any of what these guys can do but hey, I'm thinking I've got skills they don't so I'll live with the shame

Also, I agree with you on the explanations. These guys sometimes don't realize that there are mortals out there that don't know $hit about what the hell it means to drive something at 5 amps and what that gives you in lumens.

Lumens is to me like ballistics. Foot pounds and feet per second KINDA explains things to me. Lumens kinda puts things in perspective for me too and I kinda get an idea of what's going on.

Considering what the dude just offered you, you may want to check into it and play around with the different bulbs. ESPECIALLY if there are cheapo ones out there at 1500 lumens. That's a lot of juice and especially compared to a regular MAG which is what you guys were limited to not too many years ago.

Also, if you get one of the more powerful ones, you could actually heat your lunch up with it OR cook an egg (no kidding).

Yeah, it's big but whack friendly if that matters and if the mags help up as well as they did and the guy says he thinks this is as strong, you should be good.

I would carry something small and powerful on you just in case like the Quark AA, Nitecore D10 or something really small but strong enough to help out if needed.

George

 

[Popsiclestix]

Try with one of your lights, drop it on the bezel from waist high and see if anything moves. If not, then im REALLY interested.

I load up my Mag85 with my own 9xAA pack and I throw the thing and it seems to survive with nothing wrong. The C-ring should be able to withstand those kinds of loads.

If the Borealis uses the same retention method the only thing I can suggest is that your C-clip or the switch assembly is broken.

 

[hkusp9]

my blackbear borealis sounds pretty similar to the mag mods that yall are talking about, the guy soldered wires into the switch to reduce resistance and added a custom aluminum reflector and aluminum and ceramic bulb holder with a battery cassette that holds 9 rechargable AA batteries.

Is there any way that i can just add suped up batteries and a bulb to this thing or slightly modify it to make it work, or do i need to buy a whole new mag mod rig?

also, the gun guy that compared to foot pounds of energy had it right. talk to me abut bullet weights and velocities and bullet coefficients and we're good, this amps and voltage stuff isnt my game. I nearly killed myself last month trying to piece back together a faulty cheapo laptop charger

 

[hkusp9]

I'll try it on carpet since I don't want to goober up a pristine light that I might want to sell. The impact won't be as severe as on concrete or asphalt, but that's the best I can do right now.

Did you ever insert a thick pin lamp into the Borealis, and then subsequently used a thinner pin lamp? The way the Kiu socket works, if you stick in a thick pin lamp, the socket clamps apparently take some sort of set. Thus, going back to a thin pin lamp will result in a potentially loose fit.

its only ever had the two lamps in it that i bought it with. Also, that one guy said that 1500 is a lot of lumens, but for an incan it really makes a difference to me what color the light is. the borealis is a yellowish light which tints stuff really acquardly. I would love an incan but it needs to have a whitish bulb.

 

[Popsiclestix]

Sounds like you have some resistances in your setup. The bulb in a proper 85 is overdriven so hard that it'll insta-flash if you use it right off the charger. That's pretty much as white as you're going to get out of a good ole filament setup.

Either your batteries aren't charged when you're using it, the setup has some resistance, or you're one of the rare few here who prefer LED lighting to those here.

Some of the new multi-emitter lights may be more suited for your application (and as a bonus, are regulated, so they don't go dim/change colors until the batteries are beginning to approach their last leg).

 

[hkusp9]

actually the instructions that came with the borealis said that you should let the batteries sit for thirty minutes or drain off the overcharge by plugging in the carrier to a little floodlight bulb to burn off the excess charge before you put them into the mag light.

I keep the batteries fully charged for work and the incan still seems a little dim. Are yall saying that if i simply put a bigger bulb into this thing i can get more lumens?

Or do i have to buy Justin Case's modded mag? At 4,000 F'in lumens i wouldnt care if the light hue came out Sh*% brown

 

[Popsiclestix]

In my humble opinion the 64623 beam is pretty ugly and I don't like it. I am not an LEO, so I am only conjecturing here, but for spotting things, you probably want a bulb which is more of a thrower. You would probably transition to a belt carry for more close up work?

The 64440IRC (110W @ 20.5V @ 5.4A) or 64432IRC (100W @ 22V @ 4.08A) should last you longer for the same brightness. Both bulbs are also considerably more efficient than the 64623 (160W @ 15.5V @ 9.59A), at a cost of not being regulated (and thus starting to dim from the get go). If brightness is your only concern (and not run-time) look into the 64458, it outclasses all of the above bulbs.

I have not run a 64623 in a while, but I'm pretty sure most of these higher-powered bulbs will heat up Mags so fast that you can't hold onto them for more than 5-10 mins max.

Dimming is not recommended with incandescent bulbs because a 50% reduction in brightness only saves like 15% power (I forget the exact number, but it's something that's pretty horrific?)

I'd seriously look into LEDs though if I was just looking for a way to light things up. The multi-emitter mods excel at flood (lighting up a wide area close up), and the aspheric mods (spotting a far away target) definitely have got all but the most powerful incandescent beat. Incandescent just hold a place in my heart because of the colors they give things.

If you do decide to build a new incandescent flashlight, you will need to have almost new everything. Definitely different batteries and charger, a new switch (the default plastic one melts), a new reflector (if your current one doesn't have a big enough hole), and maybe new lens too (if the current one you have is UCL)

 

[mvyrmnd]

I realise there's been a lot of talk about incan lights in this thread, but it was mentioned that the OP wanted an LED light.

My suggestion would be to try and find a Elektrolumens MCE-III 4C Mag. I have one, and it gives a good 2100 Lumens, The heatsink is solid copper, and it has an aluminium spacer for the 3x18650's it uses. It's as solid as a rock, bright as hell, and only cost me 220AUD. Surf the MP

There's a thread around here somewhere by a LEO who has one of these and swears by it...

The original Elecktrolumens thread

 

[Justin Case]

Yep, it gets knocked loose, I have dropped it several times and every time i was in the 24/7 auto zone with a flathead screwdriver and a mallet trying to knock the switch assembly down again. The video on the manufacturers website shows him throwing it 30 feet in the air and the light stays on. But you drop it 3 feet from your belt and its guts get all knocked out of whack. and Yeah, that grub screw that goes through the button and the c clip still arent durable enough to hold it in place when its dropped. THere needs to be a spacer between internal switch body and the reflector or something.

Try with one of your lights, drop it on the bezel from waist high and see if anything moves. If not, then im REALLY interested.

Probably the c-clip doesn't hold because of the use of what is called the "Kiu base". That is an aluminum "cap" that sits on top of the Maglite switch, protecting the plastic switch body from the heat generated by these high output bulbs. The ceramic Kiu socket is attached to this base.

The Kiu base raises the effective height of the Mag switch body such that the c-clip will no longer fit in its matching groove in the Mag body. Instead, the c-clip only bears against the smooth inside wall of the Mag body. It's a friction hold only. The c-clip in the stock Mag is held in place mechanically (it sits in a deep groove).

So probably the cleanest solution is to machine a new groove. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to do that.

A crude, ugly solution would be to drill and tap holes in the Mag body to insert some screws that can act as a physical block so that the switch can't slide forward. I'd put some small o-rings under the screw heads to seal these new holes against water intrusion. I suppose if you used some cool-looking screws like stainless Allen heads, you could make this solution look sort of high-tech. Not sure how protruding Allen heads would feel in your hand, though, when you hold the light in the usual overhand grip near the head. Smoother pan head screws might be sleeker.

 

[Justin Case]

Ok, so I did a waist high drop test. The 4D Mag623 was held with the bezel down and at my waist. That means the rest of the light was actually higher up in the air. The light was loaded with a big Osram bulb and five Li-ions (IMR26500 cells).

I dropped the light bezel-first onto a carpeted concrete floor (typical office building construction). The switch slid forward about 1/8". Instead of the button "stem" being centered in the switch button hole, it was shifted upward about halfway to the edge of the hole. Thus, the light was still functional, but the beam quality would certainly suffer since the filament is now sitting too high. You probably can adjust the Mag head to regain beam focus but you might lose o-ring contact.

The lamp seemed to stay reasonably centered. I didn't try various drop angles, and this may have some effect on how well the lamp stays in place. I did only one drop -- at a slight angle.

I used the Mag switch Allen wrench to loosen the grub screw and re-position the switch back to center.

Another method to hold the switch in-place would be to use the removable cam that comes with your typical 3rd party, metal Mag reflector. The cam is going to be a little short to contact the top of the Kiu aluminum base to keep the switch from sliding forward. So you'll have to add a metal spacer (in the shape of a donut) of the appropriate height to the top of the Kiu base.

The cam will press against the metal spacer, hopefully preventing the switch from sliding forward when the light is dropped head-first. The potential downside I see is that this transfers force through the reflector to the glass window where it is clamped in-place between the reflector rim and the screw-on bezel ring. So you might be solving one problem and creating another.

Machining a new groove for the c-clip still looks to be the cleanest solution, if a machinist is available. Drilling and tapping some threaded holes into the side of the Mag body is easy. You could use several set screws to supplement the Mag grub screw to prevent the switch from sliding forward. The set screws would bear against the aluminum Kiu base. Alternatively, you could position these screw holes a little higher. Then use some regular screws. These screws would protrude through the Mag body and sit right on top of the Kiu base, blocking it from sliding forward.

 

[Justin Case]

I made two more drop tests. For these two, I added the c-clip to the top of the Mag switch. Bottom line -- the added friction from the c-clip doesn't help. It really needs to ride in a groove.

Both of these drop tests were from waist height, bezel down, onto carpeted concrete, as before. In drop #2, the light was held at a 45 degree angle from the vertical prior to the drop. In drop #3, the light was at about a 30 degree angle to the vertical.

No differences noted. The switch still slides forward by about the same as in drop #1 -- halfway upwards to the edge of the switch hole. The Osram bulb stayed centered in the reflector opening. It was fairly straightforward to remove the batteries, loosen the grub screw, re-position the switch back to center, re-insert the batteries, and drive on.

But if your waist high drop test is a hard requirement, then I can't recommend this Mag623 build for your needs, unless you implement one of the notional methods I've discussed in prior posts to help secure the switch from sliding forward.