LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

guggie said:

No new posts lately. I assume people are receiving their new adapters and having good experience with them?

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ValVe said:

Or maybe they're now... er.. homeless ;-)

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Is this what they mean by Yin Yang?

I must admit though, that after monitoring Lacrosse's behavior and response throughout the half-decade that the BC-9x series debacle has been ongoing, it would be difficult to characterize their motives or actions as ever leaning towards white...

I suspect that LaCrosse started out selling the BC-900 as nothing more than a gimmick, something that would catch the eye of people leafing through those in-flight shopping catalogs full of everything you never knew you wanted until now, like golf ball monogramming kits. It was supposed to be used once and then lost in the back of a drawer somewhere. I suspect nobody was more surprised than they when people actually started giving good reviews of the BC-900 and recommending it to others. They are now the bemused purveyor of a fancy gadget that unintentionally turned out to be a useful tool -- leaving them overwhelmed and unprepared for the amount of investment people have in the device.

Did anyone received the new AC adapters ?

"You should receive your replacement AC adapter about a month after submitting an order."(from LaCrosse site)

Is more than 45 days and nothing was sent.

lgflorin said:

Did anyone received the new AC adapters ?

"You should receive your replacement AC adapter about a month after submitting an order."(from LaCrosse site)

Is more than 45 days and nothing was sent.

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Yes, I received two new AC adapters for my two BC-9009s after a couple of weeks.

lgflorin said:

Did anyone received the new AC adapters ?

"You should receive your replacement AC adapter about a month after submitting an order."(from LaCrosse site)

Is more than 45 days and nothing was sent.

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I got 2 as well within a couple of weeks for each of my chargers. Everything's working great! :thumbsup:

lgflorin said:

Did anyone received the new AC adapters ?

"You should receive your replacement AC adapter about a month after submitting an order."(from LaCrosse site)

Is more than 45 days and nothing was sent.

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AFAICT, DEMAND exceeded SUPPLY...

(and "The early bird catches the worm..."). ;)

'Somewhere' I believe that I read "~2-3 months"...

And suddenly the melting stops with these new ac adapters. Did not know a slight difference in voltage can make a difference.

MarioJP said:

And suddenly the melting stops with these new ac adapters. Did not know a slight difference in voltage can make a difference.

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Well, if someone is taking your picture of you standing on the edge of a cliff, and he tells you to take just one slight step backwards, that can make a big difference when you're right on the edge!

Turbo DV8 said:

Well, if someone is taking your picture of you standing on the edge of a cliff, and he tells you to take just one slight step backwards, that can make a big difference when you're right on the edge!

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I'd even say you're not standing on the edge of a cliff but on a wall. One step forward and it's not working properly and one step backwards is a catastrophe.

It's not a very smart design to let it depend very stiffly on the supply voltage. A good design can be quite tolerant until the very last step before the critical component/functionality.
And especially in a device as the BC-900 charger there's a lot of random properties like the DC plug, the wire and such. While that won't mean more power to the charger if the power supply output voltage is just right it can easily mean the charger gets less than it optimally needs limiting charging current on max.

At least one of the KD/DX LiIon chargers is relying on the same fragile construction method :sick:

Further more such a fragile construction also means you just can't grab an of the shelf power supply and expect it to work. With a proper design like the Maha C9000, GP chargers and many other even low cost ones I have/have seen that's no problem. While the specs of those typically says 12 v I wouldn't be surprised if they would work just fine with everything from 8-15 v (and of course the power supply must be able to deliver the required current).

McAllan said:

At least one of the KD/DX LiIon chargers is relying on the same fragile construction method :sick:

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Sorry for the OT but which Li-Ion charger is that?

Conan said:

Sorry for the OT but which Li-Ion charger is that?

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This one. Of course you can use it with other power supplies. But be sure they're very strictly meeting the requirements. In fact even then I wouldn't recommend using it anyway. The others like the often recommended UltraFire is much better if you get a correctly adjusted one and preferably using that with a known quality external power supply since I wouldn't trust the internal mains supply in the long run.
And no unregulated ones with the DSD either (which is no problem with the Maha C9000 etc. - actually I mostly use an unoriginal unregulated iron core with my C9000 since it's like it whines a bit less using that).

Last night I was charging 4 Rayovac Hybrid AAs on my v35 BC-900. These are quality cells than have only been used for a few charge cycles purchased specifically for use in one light (TK40). I plugged the charger in, inserted the 4 batteries set for a standard charge with a rate of 1000mA and let them charge during dinner (within sight). I estimated that the batteries were 60% discharged before going on the charger.

I have a habit of getting up to check them every 10-20 minutes because I don't like them to trickle charge for too long at a high rate. After some time, how long I could not say, I got up to check them again and noticed something odd. First, on the charge rate display, bays 1 and 2 displayed 1000 (or there abouts) and bays 3 and 4 displayed '000'. Hmm, that's odd I thought. Maybe part of the screen was going out. So then I toggled through the menu some more and came to the accumulated capacity (mAh) display. Bays 1 and 2 displayed 1400, and bays 3 and 4 displayed 1350. So, at least according to the unit, bays 3 and 4 had stopped charging; however the voltage display was not indicating that bays 3 and 4 were "FULL". All of the batteries, including 3 and 4 felt equally very warm, nearly hot to the touch. I can calculate that bays 3 and 4 were "off" for about three minutes based on the rate of charge and the difference in accumulated capacity, but would that have been enough time for them to cool down noticeably? I guess what I'm asking is, was this a meltdown in the making that I averted? I am this close to throwing my charger in the trash and buying a Maha.

was.lost.but.now.found said:

I can calculate that bays 3 and 4 were "off" for about three minutes based on the rate of charge and the difference in accumulated capacity, but would that have been enough time for them to cool down noticeably? I guess what I'm asking is, was this a meltdown in the making that I averted?

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Mine does this when the cells reach max threshold temperature during charge. The charger stops charging the hot cells and will read "000" on the current display, because no current is being applied to the cell. I've only had this occur with 4 cells in the charger at 1000mA. Two cells have never reached a high enough temperature to pause the charge process.

NutSAK said:

Mine does this when the cells reach max threshold temperature during charge. The charger stops charging the hot cells and will read "000" on the current display, because no current is being applied to the cell. I've only had this occur with 4 cells in the charger at 1000mA. Two cells have never reached a high enough temperature to pause the charge process.

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So in all likelihood I had a missed termination then? Why else would there be enough heat generated to cause a shutdown? I thought the higher the charge rate (up to 1C) the better off I was because they would terminate correctly and quickly following -dV or whatever it's called.

was.lost.but.now.found said:

So in all likelihood I had a missed termination then? Why else would there be enough heat generated to cause a shutdown? I thought the higher the charge rate (up to 1C) the better off I was because they would terminate correctly and quickly following -dV or whatever it's called.

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That's hard for me to determine, not knowing how much capacity you had used from the cells. In the case of mine, I had not reached a full capacity charge on my fully depleted Ray-O-Vacs when the pause occurred. Even though the chances of proper termination are greater at higher charge rates, the higher charge rate itself will cause higher cell temperatures. I don't know if the charge rate alone should be enough to reach max temp.

I do notice that my Ray-O-Vacs seem to get hotter with a 1000mA charge than my Eneloops do, but that could just be my impression. I don't recall ever seeing my BC-900 pause due to high temps when charging Eneloops, but I tend to only charge two cells at a time.

Sorry I can't be of more help. I don't think you were headed for a "meltdown" however.

was.lost.but.now.found said:

So in all likelihood I had a missed termination then?

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Not necessarily.

IMO, you experienced the PROPER operation of a BC-900 v35 as designed.

was.lost.but.now.found said:

...First, on the charge rate display, bays 1 and 2 displayed 1000 (or there abouts) and bays 3 and 4 displayed '000'... ...then I toggled through the menu some more and came to the accumulated capacity (mAh) display. Bays 1 and 2 displayed 1400, and bays 3 and 4 displayed 1350. So, at least according to the unit, bays 3 and 4 had stopped charging; however the voltage display was not indicating that bays 3 and 4 were "FULL"...

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The thermistors detected HIGH TEMP, the processor signaled the MOSFET to shut down, it complied, and the cells cooled down. On a 'Defective AC Adaptor' BC-9009, when the processor signals the MOSFET to shut down, it cannot because it's in 'Thermal Runaway'. Thus, it continues to COOK the cells, melt the plastic, etc...

was.lost.but.now.found said:

...Why else would there be enough heat generated to cause a shutdown?

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High Internal Resistance plus poor airflow / tight cell bay spacing (compared to the C9000). I always run my BC-900 v33 on top of 2 hexagonal wooden pencils. Even with my stockpile of *CRAP* cells, I rarely see an '000' overtemp condition. I do see ~120°F on my RadioShack Digital thermometer now and then.

was.lost.but.now.found said:

...I thought the higher the charge rate (up to 1C) the better off I was because they would terminate correctly and quickly following -dV or whatever it's called.

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True.

Try charging (via TEST):

1. 2 cells @ 1000mA using bays 1 & 4
   .
2. 4 cells @ 700mA using bays 1 - 4
   .
3. 2 cells @ 1500mA using bays 1 & 4

Besides monitoring the Capacity, keep track of the Voltage. The La Crosse chargers usually terminate healthy cells around 1.53VDC. Please post your results.

Also, whenever the cells get hot, if you don't have a digital thermometer handy, you can determine the temperature by using the procedure in: La Crosse BC-900 LCD Temperature Translation Table

These cells vaired between 1.41 and 1.44V when I pulled the plug.

Thanks for all the specifics and help TTA.

TakeTheActive said:

Also, whenever the cells get hot, if you don't have a digital thermometer handy, you can determine the temperature by using the procedure in: La Crosse BC-900 LCD Temperature Translation Table

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Now that's something new to me!

guggie said:

Now that's something new to me!

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CLICK on my Sig Line LINK - you may find something else new to you. ;)

NutSAK said:

Mine does this when the cells reach max threshold temperature during charge. The charger stops charging the hot cells and will read "000" on the current display, because no current is being applied to the cell. I've only had this occur with 4 cells in the charger at 1000mA. Two cells have never reached a high enough temperature to pause the charge process.

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I saw this for the first time with the POS powerex cells I have.

I've run well over 200x powerex cells through 3 chargers at work on 'refresh' and only the MAHA powerex cells give us any fits. They don't hold a charge at all- in fact, by the time I'm done refreshing them they're already back down to 0.94V. What a waste of money- we won't even deliver them to a customer because of this.

So I will probably end up purchasing more Tenergy LSD cells- they're cheap and after 2 years of running them at home I've still not had any problems with them.

That's 5x BC-900 chargers running 24/7 for the past year or so with no issues.