princeton tec vs surefire

ooh did really say that i'm in trouble now. dont beat me to much ok as i dont have a surefire and am going by pictures.
what i mean is that pt and sf seem equal in many ways:
+both quality
+similar beam and brightness
+pt uses common batts.
+in emergancy pt will use standard bulb but sf must have it's own speciel bulb
+pt lights arent ugly either you know
i want any and all answers possible both pt and sf owners welcome

You're not talking about the whole ranges of both brands are you?

I have yet to hear of anyone who compares the Princeton Tec range against SureFire and say they have similar beam quality!

The PTec Surge is a step towards SureFire quality, and I welcome development of such models, but as far as I know, it's one of the only examples of any serious competition from non-123A lights.

I have a respect for Princeton Tec, however, I respectfully ask you to explain yourself so I can understand. (This SureFire Freak is trying to give another brand a fair trial, so throw me a bone here! What do we have?!)

Thanks!

Al

i mean the whole range and actualy i wanted a spot here to discuss their pros and cons to the lenth the maglite article was discused. have you ever useed a tec 40 if not you should. it is a fantastic light and should be recognised but really i mean the whole line

Princeton Tec and Surefire are only competitors in the broadest meaning of the term. Other than we hobbyists, the product is targeted for two different markets.

There is something I dislike about both brands. While both being great products, the replacement bulbs are proprietary. Some PT products, such as the TEC 40 can use an off the shelf halogen replacement, but some, should the company disappear or charge unreasonable prices, do not lend themselves to continued use. Proprietary accessories produce obsolete products.

i mean the whole range

That`s like comparing apples to Mexican Jumping Beans

I don`t know enough about the two companies products to delve into a deep and meaningful discussion, neither do I have the time right now (so much to do including sleeping- well it is 2.30AM!) but I do know that they are vastly different. SureFire make specialised high performance lights for tactical situations- you know, guns and stuff. Princeton Tec make dive lights and accessories- you know, water and stuff. The two situations demand vastly different properties of lights. An M3 would not be much good at 300ft underwater. A Tec-40 wouldn`t be much good alongside a handgun in a life-or-death tactical situation.

I think you`ll have a hard time arguing the pros and cons of the two brands, they are just so vastly different. Good luck...


...btw I think `tis time you updated your signature line. The holidays are over....

Originally posted by Chris M.:
SureFire make specialised high performance lights for tactical situations- you know, guns and stuff. Princeton Tec make dive lights and accessories- you know, water and stuff. The two situations demand vastly different properties of lights. An M3 would not be much good at 300ft underwater.
**************
Sure.......but how about a Glock at 300ft underwater. Do you think it would do better or worse tham a S&W???

Clearly, the intended markets and uses are different. But they do have one thing in common: they both try to produce the best power to weight ratio. PT tries to do it for the average consumer, and SF does it for the high end or tactical users.

For cost, clearly PT has a solid beam pattern and strong performance.

For cost, SF has an outstanding beam pattern, with good performance.

It is difficult to make a direct comparison for a lot of reasons, but it is worth understanding both positions to realize that they are not so different.

Chris, it is my understanding that Dive Lights represents a fairly small part of PT business and that most of their sales are from Headlamps.

surefire advantages
I don't have any of these lights but this is what I've gathered
brightest lights in the most compact setups. nice beam quality
very tough, except for the bulbs themselves.

princeton tec lights cover everything else
attitude, surge, tec40...
cheap batteries and durable. the attitude will take a lot of abuse since it uses led's.

if I was really in a "tactical or combat" situation I need a light that runs longer than an hour.

if I do buy a surefire it will be the e2. mainly just for my collection.

I know there are some LEOs here and probably a few divers and hikers. But perhaps a lot of us (including myself) dont really have any occupational/recreational need for a flashlight. For us it doesnt matter that surefire can handle the stress of gun recoil or that princeton tec is waterproof to 1000 feet. The worst Ill do is drop the light while walking or carry it in the rain. Without any special needs I think would say princeton tec surge is probably preferable to someone who cant afford a surefire with a steady diet of 123s. I cant really speak much about princeton tec. The only tec flashlight I ever used was a TEC-20 and it sucked big time. The Streamlight propolymer 2AA was much better. Seeing as the TEC-20 isnt their flagship product it probably isnt safe to judge the whole brand on that one light.

Ive used a surefire 6P and find it to be simply awesome. Something nice about holding that anodized cold metal beauty. I like it better than plastic polymer housings.

adios

it is my understanding that Dive Lights represents a fairly small part of PT business and that most of their sales are from Headlamps.

Thanks- I stand (well, sit ) corrected.

I`ll go and take a wander round their web site later on today if there`s time, and see what else they make besides the impressive Surge (my first experience with PT lights).

I try to stay off the SureFire site, as every time I leave, I add another light to my "I want one" list. Maybe Pt will be the same though.

Anyone got a M6 or 9AN going cheap?

As many people have said, other than shining light, the two product lines are for different markets.

I am a recent "flashoholic", in that I have always been interested in flashlights, but did not discover that there is life after mag-light until recently.

I was about ready to purchase a high end light (actually Streamlight, instead of Sure Fire), but I purchased a Princeton Tec Surge first, and am very happy.

The Surge meets my needs, I am very impressed with it, it puts out almost a "floodlight" of light (as opposed to a tightly focused beam), and I saved a bunch of money.

As far as "propritary" bulbs in the Princeton Tec products go, I agree in theory, and you are correct if they go out of business or start to charge outragous prices for them, the consumer suffers. However, sometimes, to make a superior product, you have to make a special bulb to meet your application. That would be great if I could go to Radio Shack and get a bulb for my Surge, but I want the brightness and quality that my Surge currently gives me.

I would have to ask the question, if there were other bulbs like the Surge, and they were readily available, wouldn't that mean that there are other products like that also?

I wish that I could go to Wal-mart or my local sporting goods store, and pick up a 20-30 $ light that is as bright and as lightweight as the Surge.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Empath:
Princeton Tec and Surefire are only competitors in the broadest meaning of the term. Other than we hobbyists, the product is targeted for two different markets.

There is something I dislike about both brands. While both being great products, the replacement bulbs are proprietary. Some PT products, such as the TEC 40 can use an off the shelf halogen replacement, but some, should the company disappear or charge unreasonable prices, do not lend themselves to continued use. Proprietary accessories produce obsolete products.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Empath:
Other than we hobbyists, the product is targeted for two different markets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No disrespect for PT (in fact, I like their light a lot for particular reason), SF is the leader in the market they're designed for. However, PT has yet achieved that goal.

For incandescent headlamp, it is too heavy especially on the front. For LED headlamp, they lose out to petzl as well. For diving lantern, I think UK is way better. Yes, Surge is exceptional case and indeed, it's very good light. I'm still waiting for its *promised-but-never-shipped Switchback headlamp.

I like PT only as a hobbyist, prefer bright and smooth light beam (SF like).

I have 7 SFs, 5 Streamlights (6 soon), 6 PTs, 4 Petzls (headlamp), 3 UKs and many others. I think I know where PT's quality stand.

PS - Quality means user expectation from the market the light is designed for.

Alan

An interesting observation, but if you look at product catagories, is there another company as diverse and that can reach the top tier of as many catagories as PT?
I don't think any other company can make this claim.
Catagories could be:
Headlamps
LED
Dive
Small Handhelds: 4AAA, 2AAA
Medium Handhelds: 4AA
Surge: whereever you wish to put it.

The only missing catagory is the large non-underwater handhelds.... maybe Surge.

Not for nothing - but there is something to be said for great diversity with quality.

Alan,

I disagree with you re: PT headlamps come up short.

Petzl doesn't have a waterproof headlamp that I'm aware of. The PT Solo, Vortex and Quest don't have to worry about water getting inside and shorting things out.

I'd much rather have my Solo (with the weight of 2AA batteries) on the front of my head than a Petzl lamp in front and a 4.5 volt battery pack on the back of my head.

Yes some of the higher up Petzls have greater run time but for the cost of AA batteries, I'd rather have the Solo. I don't do caving and for throwing a bear bag over a tree, cooking, pitching a tent at night or hiking/backpacking, PT really works well for me.

I'm not ragging on Petzl because they do make good lights. PT also makes great lights too.

I received my order of PT's from William at TTS today (great price & fast shipping). They were the Rage, TEC 40. & Surge. The Rage & the Tec 40 are excellent lights in their class & price range, but the Surge is awesome! I've been reading all the praise, but didn't really comprehend the amount of light output I'ld get for this $23 light running on AA batteries. Ya gotta see it to believe it! This is not a tactical light & I don't think PT intended it for that. But it is a great light.
Now before the SF owners jump in here to tell me how great SF's are, I already know how great SF's are. I own a 12PM, M3, M2, D2/D3, 8NX, & my favorite, E2. They are all great lights, as is the Surge. They simply have different uses & markets. TX

Jeff,

I agree with you that PT headlamp is waterproof. However, Petzl Duo is storm proof and the rest is highly water resistant. None of my Petzl headlamp has problem on heavy rain storm. Unless you use your headlamp for diving, Petzl does its work pretty well.

I also agree with you when using 2AA headlamp, the weigh might not be an issue like 4AA. I didn't own any 2AA headlamp albeit I have 4 headlamps.

Alan

Great choices. Rage, Tec 40 and Surge are hard to beat in its size/brightness/price/waterproof class, even die hard SFers might agree it. While everyone like Surge, I like the Tec 40 most. IMO, Tec 40 is the best "all around" light.

If you could have one and only one light, that would be it. I think it's the smallest 4AA light and use standard PR lamp yet provide good beam pattern. Wild range of PR lamps provide users choices of long-runtime with even low cost non-alkaline batt or high current/output (brighter than e2) with rechargeables. Wild range of AA cells (non-alkaline, alkaline, lithium and rechargeables) fit different preference of usage. It's small and light enough for even extra light backpacking and compliment tiny LED headlamp. It could be in toolbox or glove compartment when backpacking is done. Wherever you are travelling, you could get PR lamp and AA cells even in developing coutries.

Alan

Alan,
I pretty much agree with you on the Tec 40, except it needs something besides the twist head turn on. Maybe a rear intermintent button like the Streamlight Poly 4AA.
TX

SL4AA is the only 4AA light w tail switch. I used to use it due to this feature. IMO, SL4AA is better built than Tec 40. However, I really can't stand its light pattern (rings, rings, rings). The perfect 4AA will be one with SL4AA body + fully texturized reflecter + PR bulb

Alan

The Streamlight Poly 4AA has a monentary tail switch & few, if any, rings. My only complaint is the beam is a little tight, but no more than the Tec 40. TX