Newbie Needs SureFire Advice; Is 15 Lumens Enough??

I'm a bit overwhelmed by the number of Surefire models. Let me please ask your opinions.

I'm looking for an always-carry (EDC) light of similar size to the 2-AA
mini-Maglite that I always carry now.

The key features I'm looking for are:

--enough output to for tactical use (temporarily blind an attacker)

--tactical tailcap for 1-hand operation while holding firearm in the other
(I'm recently retired LEO, not a bad guy like my name would imply)

--long run time on lower but useable power (enough to light a trail in the
dark so as not to trip over rocks, roots, etc.)

From what I've managed to digest so far it seems this would be the L2, since its got high and low power LEDs (and not juice burning krypton for high output). Would you agree with this choice for my purposes?

Is 15 Lumens (the L2 low power output) enough to light a trail in the woods with no moonlight?

Is the L2's high power setting focused enough to "blind" an attacker up to about 30 feet away?

I look forward to your learned opinion(s). THANK YOU.

I would think that maybe the L2 would be a nice light for what you are looking for. I am not sure if the low (15 lumens) would be enough to light the trail though. I think that would probably be more beneficial with up close stuff. As far as blinding an attacker from 30ft? Not sure I would rely on a light to do that for you in a potentially dangerous situation.

I have the same tactical needs/wishes you do. It's difficult to come up with the perfect flashlight that covers ALL the bases equally well. I've looked carefully at the two stage SF lights (all my SF to date are one stage), and tried various lumen levels with my HDS EDC 60. Personally I've concluded that I would rather have two lights than rely on just one for these two extreme requirements. My solution is to use either AA or AAA powered Fenix for low light "find the path in the woods" (these range from 30 to 46 lumens), and then something in the 60+ lumen range for use with my .45. I've come to always have the AAA Fenix around my neck and under my shirt. I also always have an E2D with me (usually in a bag or pocket), as well as the HDS EDC 60 (but not latched to max power, so it's not a good immediate tactical light). The more I've used my HDS the more I've come to realize the value of the four levels. I can get by with just a few lumens when I first get up, then I need to raise the level as the ambient level rises and also if I do turn on a room light an my pupils dilate.

Well, being that you're retired LEO I'd guess you probably know what a light can and can't do to someone at night. L2 would be a good option, as would an L4 with a McE2S tailcap. Heck, an A2 would probably do a pretty good job for me, but I've got young eyes and could run trail all night on a single 5mm LED, so having 3 in my A2 is just plain and simple overkill. The Aleph series, albeit a little more expensive, is well worth looking into as well, IMO. Realistically, even something like a TwinTask 2L would rock your socks off comparied to a Minimag..

Welcome to CPF!!

The L2 is what we CPFers call a flood light. Instead of having a tightly focused beam that would let it throw light at distances, it has a very wide, smooth beam. At 30 feet, you'd be better off with a gun, or an air taser -- it will certainly illuminate your attacker, but likely not blind him. If you don't need a lot of throw, the L2 should be fine, otherwise I'd look at a different model

In addition, the light is longer than a 2AA Minimag -- check this review out for pictures: http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_l2.htm

As far as nighttime navigation, I haven't gotten the chance to use my A2 (don't have an L2) in the great outdoors, but as far as not tripping over things in my house, the low mode (3 lumens) works fine (but I have young eyes -- although you could ask a CPFer to replace the stock LEDs with brighter ones) -- and the high beam (advertised 50 -- actually ~80 lumens) is tightly focused for good throw, with usable spill.

I've tried playing around using the light in two "tactical" grips -- the Harries and Surefire/Rogers grips (it has the same dual-stage tailcap as the L2), and it is more difficult to squeeze the tailcap to high output than it would be on a single-stage light using the Surefire/Rogers grip. Not much of a problem with the Harries grip, though.

I was thinking A2 (white) or L2.

Probably both have comparable performance on low beam -- adequate light for walking, floody. I don't have a white A2 so I can't compare the low beam outputs.


The A2 will throw farther on high since it has a more tightly focused incandescent beam. The L2 puts out more total light, so will light up a scene better. I suspect you could hide behind the beam of either at 30 ft.

They have identical controls. The L2 is a little bigger, but oddly easier to handle because of its better balance. The L2 is around 1/2" longer than a minimag, the A2 that much shorter.

Both are great lights. I would base the choice between these two on preference of wide or narrow angle high beam.

I think the Night-Ops Gladius is another one to consider. Its controls are a lot different than the SureFires'.

Scott

May I suggest a slightly different approach?
It sounds to me that, as a retired LEO, you'll be carrying your weapon at all times. But, you also would like to have a lower-output light available to you for those non-critical navigation situations. Right?

Bear with me for a second here. The vast majority of the time, you'll be using the low level of yout light. Eventually, you'll consume the batts to the point where *if* you encounter a critical instance where you need full output from your light... the batts won't be able to power the lamp or LED. :green: Not good.

So, may I suggest that you acquire an L4 (or the more tactically-designed L5) as your weapon-associated EDC, and also carry a smaller light for all other uses? The L4 doesn't have such a collimated beam as the L5, so if you need extra throw, the L5's your ticket.

There's a plethora of options for this second light, and you can carry on your keychain, your pocket, or on your belt depending on the size. The HDS EDC is a neat little light that you can carry on your pocket or on your belt (their kydex hoslters are nice!). The HDS has the advantage that will let you choose even more light levels, and you can use rechargeables. The Nuwai Qiii is another 1x123-based light that you can carry on your pocket, and there are lots and lots of mods you can do with them. Yet another option would be one of the newer Fenix lights. Either the L1P or the L2P, or even the keychain-sized L0P may be good for you. If you want looooong runtimes, maybe the HDS on a lower setting, or even a small 5mm LED-based light, would be better.

I dunno, I'd just hate to see you need a bright light and not be able to when you need it most. Thus, I vote for a 2 EDC combo.

Edit to add:
I just noticed we all went wild suggesting LED lights. I guess that's because you mentioned the L2. Anyway, for a weapon-associated EDC, you can also use an incandescent: C2, C2, M2, Z2 (and the Nitrolon version, which I forget the name right now - Z2G, maybe?). These are cheaper than the LED lights too.

The Gladius starts blinking every 15 seconds when it hits ~10% battery capacity for exactly that reason. Not to push the light, but that is one of its benefits.

A related consideration is how the light runs dead. The A2's incan dumps rapidly; all of a sudden you don't have the bright beam anymore (but you still have the LEDs). The L2 dies slowly, the high beam diminishing to the level of the low over 10 minutes or so. The Gladius runs dead slowly as well, gradually dimming.

Scott

Yup, the Gladius would be another good option. It doesn't behave well with li-ion rechargeables, though, in case you want to go that route at some point.

To answer your first question (if you are still considering an L2) personally I think 15 lumens is plenty for navigating a trail in the forest on a moonless night. The best comparison I can make is a Gen. 1 KL3 which was rated at 19 lumens. I never thought twice about using it for navigation, etc. while camping with it. That being said there have been many good suggestions made that may fit your needs better.

Greetings and Welcome!

The SureFire L2 LumaMax at the low setting is plenty enough light for that dark moonless night, but with my "tired-eyes" is still not bright enough. On high, it is very bright to be sure, but usefull for the short to medium range distances. There's quite a number of lights out there that are very good. There's also the SureFire L4 and if I read that right, a two-stage switching can be had from The Sandwich Shoppe.

Hope you find what you're looking for and Enjoy!

1. The thing about blinding attackers is marketing hype, don't ever rely on it unless you've got an actual weapon to back it up with. It makes no difference how powerful the flashlight is. The (non-reliable) deterrent effect comes from surprising and confusing the person. If they know what's going on (or don't care), the light will not stop them.

2. 15 lumens is about what you get from a typical 2D incandescent light so that should give you a sense of how bright it is. The typical 2D light has a much narrower beam than an L2 though.

3. If you want an LED light with a tactical grip you might do better with a KL5 head on a 6Z body or something like that. Some Surefire expert will know if I got the models mixed up. You could also consider the Weaponlight series (X200?) which mount directly on the gun.

I have an L2 and an A2. The low beam on the L2 is much brighter than the low on the A2 (15 vs 3 lumens). I have used the L2 for hiking on several occasions, and it works superb on low, and is plenty of light for my eyes. i think you would be very happy with the L2 personally, the only possible drawback being its relatively large size compared to other SF lights. Some think it is too long for EDC, but I have heard from Size15's that he EDC's an L2 and loves it. Also, if you're carrying a weapon with you, an L2 would be tiny by comparison.

I have a modded A2 with higher output led, so it might not be a totally fair comparison. But as far as I can remember, the stock A2 on low is actually plenty bright for a totally dark adjusted eyes on trail.(think PT Attitude or Opalec in Minimag).

I too would recommend A2 since it is quite pocketable(length similar to Minimag, but thicker body) and the cool thing is about its dual output system, which if one fails you, the other would still work. Also, I think it make quite a bit of sense when the high output can throw, where the lower output provide a flood for close range. So if you would ever consider incan such as G2Z, 6p, etc, I would totally recommend A2 for the purpose.

For the Lux V, personally I would perfer the U2 or L5 over the L2 since those two seems to be able to throw further and it is easier to EDC for me. If all you want is a two level light, then do consider a Aleph2 turnkey with lux V(shorter and still very bright, similar size to E2E) or a L5 with a C-series McGizmo two stages switch.

Good luck!

15 lumens in total night out conditons is almost too much. I can get by on a moonless night with 1 or 2 lumens (with night adapted eyes.)

I would not recommend an L2 because it will not light up a situation 30 feet away well (especially in a forest.)

paulr said 6Z, now they call it the Z2.

What weapon do you carry? Possibly put a X200 SF weapons light on there with the optic for throw, or possibly another choice for a weapons light (Streamlight/Insight Tech, a incandescent from SF) and have a night time long runtime use light.

I would say a good combo would be an HDS light for low/general use, and a weapons light for threats.

Jason

Wow! So many informed (and differing) opinions! Thanks everyone.

If funds allow I think I will get the L2 for EDC and Z2 for tactical needs.

If I didn't heed your advice, please don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player.
Perp

perpster said:

If I didn't heed your advice, please don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player.

Click to expand...

We're not like that on CPF. If you have some spare time, flashlightreviews.com and theledmuseum.org are great sites to read and learn more about lights and stuff.

Perpster,
Those here who know me well are going to think "oh God, here goes the broken record again" <he he he> but here it goes anyway.....

Might I suggest that you go to the ever popular
** Flashlight Recommendation Checklist **
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/96884
copy it to here and fill out the questions and we'll probably be able to help you find the right light for you.


Now, having gotten that mandatory bit out of the way, I use an L2 in the woods all the time and it's still one of my absolute favorite "trail lights" with one notable exception. Because it's a "floodlight" it is terrible in heavy mist or fog where it will just bounce back createing a well lit wall of fog vs punching through the fog.

These days when we are out backpacking/camping my wife and I use the following...
Her- Surefire L2 (she stole mine and won't give it back!) and Princeton Tec Aurora headlamp.

Me-Night-Ops Gladius and Princeton Tec EOS headlamp.

We've also just added the new style (reflector not optic) Inova x1 lights to our kits.

I would say 15 is enough. In real dark I find a ArcAAA to do fine (about 6-7 lumens)

As stated befor I think you might want an A2 not an L2, because the A2 has a focused beam (higher lux means you'll blind an attacker longer)

You might also want to consider a Surefire KL3 (new 2nd gen.) with a F70 beamshaper installed on the Surefire or VG body of your choice. With the beamshaper lid up you have long throw, lid down, great flood. You'll also be rewarded with 3 1/2 hours of non-dimming light output.