What happened??

I remember when the Arc forum was the most posted in place on CPF. Now, I hardly see any new posts. As of right now, 2 new posts today, 3 yesterday, come on!!!!! Peter, you gotta leak some news so we can get to typin over here Do it purposely but claim it was an inside informant and you had nothing to do with it, kinda like politicians do. This place needs some ACTION!! PM me with the info and I'll do it for you, and, I'll take the CPF oath and never say from whom I got the info Doug

Good things come to those who wait. With all the new lights on the market I'm sure Peter wants something special and that to me looks like a mind boggling undertaking. I think in the end it will be a extremely durable and versatile product that true users and abusers will be happy with.

still have yet to hear about a aa lux

TIP AND RING said:

Good things come to those who wait. .

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Very well said

Hey, for me it has been exciting.. Summer is a good time for R&D.

Peter

So... did you happen to test out any of your prototypes when you were doing the recent lumen testing ??

Anything you'd care to mention ??? :naughty:

Gransee said:

Hey, for me it has been exciting.. Summer is a good time for R&D.

Peter

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Hehe...what about the winter power-outs?

D@rk Messenger said:

still have yet to hear about a aa lux

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Hehe... ...uh, Fenix?

How much will the next Arc ¢o$t? What features? Something to rival the HDS60GXTR? :huh2:

GopherithinkistilllikethepeakglacierbaythatnobodyhasGopher

icecube said:

Hehe...what about the winter power-outs?



Hehe...

...uh, Fenix?

How much will the next Arc ¢o$t? What features? Something to rival the HDS60GXTR? :huh2:

GopherithinkistilllikethepeakglacierbaythatnobodyhasGopher

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no offense to fenix, but the finish really sucks (HA nat all the way!!), besides, it's not bright enough for my liking, and i wanted something smaller for my edc, arc also probably comes with a clip

Fenix finish really does suck. I've heard other say otherwise but mine just rubs off like its a spray paint coating. So some parts are still like it was new but others are rubbing off.

Cmon Peter, how hard can something like this be??

what he said

I remember those days, too. My very first LED flashlight was an Arc AAA in September 2001. Back then, the best EDC was the Arc AAA and Surefire E2 combo. I used to enjoy reading everbody's posts on how they liked and disliked features of the Arc AAA and the Arc LS. I think Gransee was the only flashlight manufacturer who interacted regularly with CPF members to improve his products. I bet his pioneering efforts with the Luxeon Star helped pave the way for many of the flashlights on the market today.

Yes,Yes, the Arc LS. I've had quite a few of those and loved em. Unfortunately, most lights and I part ways rather quickly. I am a buy and sell type guy It's fun though!!!! I hope a newly designed LS is on the way from Peter, although it would be tough to beat the old design IMO. I'd also like to see a AA. Half the fun of these lights is the speculation from you guys!!! I love reading the threads when a new light is due out shortly!! Just plain interesting!!! Doug ps, Randyo that AA is sueeet!!

I'm just the guy with the willing wallet. MillerMods is the Jedi Master.

Some of you already know some of this:

I am developing a new Arc-LS. This will be the 5th major production revision since Arc first introduced the market to Luxeon LED flashlights back in 2002. It will cost more, utilize a high power led, single 123 type cell (rechargeable or non-rechargeable), compact form factor, multiple brightness levels, temperature protected, simpler interface, more durable construction, a little easier to mod, etc.

The most popular questions I receive are then how much and when. Of course I have a rough idea of what it will cost and when it will be ready. However, I don't think now is the time for me to share those projections. Even when I say, "projection" some people hear "promise". So, my mind is my own. Anyways, my real focus is on meeting the goals for output, features, durability, etc. As a result, it will cost whatever it ends up costing and it will take whatever amount of time it takes.

Another factor in my being more tight lipped on this project compared to the original LS is that back when I released the original LS, it had no competitors. There were no other production LED flashlights with a Luxeon or even driving a single LED over 100mA. Most were using the 5mm LED varieties. Now, there are over 50 companies (many of them Chinese) making a wide variety of high power LED products. Some using luxeon, others using osrams, crees, jupiters, etc.

Back then I could come on the CPF and say, "I am going to build a high power flashlight and it is going to do x and y". And so what if other companies read my posts, they were still shipping variations on the 5mm LED at the time. The cool thing about that period was everyone could participate in the development.

But that was then. Of course, the market eventually fills new territory. There are now many high power LED products available and some are pretty decent. The customer now has all sorts of options of price, output, size, battery types, user interface, optics, etc. My recent market study catalogues some of the progress the market has made since 2002.

There is still progress to be made of course. As usual, I am focusing on the overall utility of a design. I now have access to materials I didn't have access to in 2002, which will make this LS the best LS to date.

Peter

Wahooooooooo! I love the LS, always have!! Doug

Peter,

I'm sure you are alot more in tune with the market than am I , however, while the cr123 market does have a very substantial niche carved out for it , it sure seems that alot of folks are slipping back over to the AA side of things. Leds are somewhat responsible for this as well.

Depending on when the next Arc is available , I'd imagine that there will be very sophisticated , multilevel, high output AA lights that will directly compete with it. If I'm not mistaken surefire practically created the cr123 market and did so to feed voltage/current hungry incandescent bulbs. Leds are increasing in output and dropping in VF so the requirements of power are dropping to the point that lights that can only use 123's are going to begin to look like remnants of the incandescent market.

Surefire has already teased with the pocket rocket and vows to release a AA light in 2006. I'm sure many others are aiming at huge sales by mainstreaming a AA led light, some will certainly be high end and microprocessor controlled with multiple power options.

I'd really like to see arc around for a long time to come so maybe consider having a AA option available .

xochi,

You make some good points. The whole AA/123 issue was discussed awhile back. I argued for the lithium if you recall. Like I said at the time, I am not ruling out future Arc 1xAA designs but I do favor the 123 form factor and to a lesser extent the CR2 form factor. The CR2 is to the 123 as the AAA is to the AA.

You guys should know that we are now planning for the military market more than before. Each design is now evaluated with the criteria, "is this a good design for the military as well as for the civilian market?" The military needs more power than a single AA can provide, even with the type of LED we should have available in 2 years. Although probably the most readily available cell in their procurement system is the AA cell, the 123 cell is fairly common as well. A 123 cell can provide more power and do so with less weight and bulk than a AA cell. That translates into some real numbers for a modern soldier who has increasing demands placed on them.

btw, the cost of a 123 cell is similiar to or superior to an AA cell when you factor in light output watts delivered per dollar, transportation costs, cell leakage, etc. Operational costs are definately a factor in equipment procurement.

The modern warfighter now carries over 100 lbs of gear for some missions and the average walking speed and range has been reduced as a result. Combine this with the propensity for conflicts to be in hot climates which tax both man and equipment. Asymetric warfare tends to be located in urban areas. These areas put increasing demands on reducing the size of gear while increasing its capabilities.

Although the first market will be civilian, the new Arc-LS is designed for various military applications. In some cases, the design will be customized for a particular set of tasks.

As a result of this new focus, the 123 cell is going to continue to be preferred by us.

Peter

One thing I should tell you guys fairly soon is the new LS is designed to be simpler to operate than the Arc4 but not dumber. The switch is a 2-stage push button/twisty (like the McLux PD) with a little bit of software sprinkled in. As a result, you can access 2 levels with one press from off. No double clicking required, no jumping up and down on one foot while holding your breath and thumbing through a manual, etc.

A multi-stage switch is essential for a making a simple multi-level light. Without a multi-stage, the multi-levels require a nested menu system. "Click to turn on, double click to change", etc. Since I wanted it to be simpler (still paying my penance for unleasing the complex Arc4 on the public), the user interface needed more channels. Not only is this simpler, but it is faster as well. A good 2-stage can provide fast, single handed operation. Faster than a single stage and only one hand is required. Not everyone will find it as useful as I do of course.

Now, that being said, you should also know the new LS has a microprocessor. Almost a bad word in some camps I know. I love 'em however. The big thing a microprocessor buys is less electronic components required to provide such useful features as temp protect, R123 protect, fall back, etc. Tempurature protection should be standard on a light in this class. Without it, you are either damaging the LED or not getting all you can from it. Scary, but there are high power single 123 lights on the market that either have no temperature protection or they rely on the internal breakers of the switching chips. By the time those trip, the LED is already damaged.

Ok, a lot of stuff in that paragraph. Why can't we just all get along and go back to using a battery, resistor and an LED? The answer: durable high power. And how complicated is this: push a little for low power, push harder for high power. Or twist to latch in either. If you want a software assist, you can make it latch when the button is pressed. Single handed, latching, fast response. Ok, not everyone is going to love this but I think it is an improvement over anything else I have seen.

btw, last year we developed a pc interface for configuring the LS. It was developed for our own use only. The plan was for it to be used on the assembly line and for our contractors. It is a good thing for each contractor to have a comprehensive internal QC loop. The software is written in C and runs on windows XP. It uses the usb interface and can set levels, read tempurature, battery voltage, configure various modes, etc.

Now the quandry, I am tempted to add the necessary finishing touches to make it a retail product. However, I doubt there is much demand for something like this and I don't want to become a computer tech support company. The flashlight is what it is all about. I am also worried that some people might think the light is some complicated thing that has a 30 page manual. It is designed to be simpler than the Arc4. It just happens to have this pc inteface but I have been afraid to mention it. Still worried that some people are already forming misconceptions about the LS right now.

The Arc4 also had a PC interface for internal use, but it was not as powerful as this current build. I added more features because, well, it was easy and fun and something I have wanted for awhile. And I have found that the window into the device is actually quite handy. More than I expected. I find I use it all the time now for testing, setting the light up for a particular mode, etc. It is so second nature in my testing to use the PC interface to quickly configure the various systems. Not using it makes as much sense as not using a DMM or lab supply. if you can't tell, I am actually quite fond of the PC interface. Ok, it is not pretty in its current iteration; a board with some cables hanging off of it. And don't expect me to make it much prettier. You should know by now I don't do pretty.

Any rate, the interface is not what I would classify as ready for the public. It wasn't designed primarily for that mission anyways. It would need to be ported to other systems, more verbose error messages, easier dialogues, some stuff to help reduce our tech support, etc. Not worth it for just 10 guys in my opinion. But maybe those 10 guys would like the current version without any tech support? Here it is, figure it out. Oh, btw be carefull of this setting combination, you break it you pay for it.

Peter

I am probably going to regret that post. The LS is designed to be a tool, not a hobby toy. The user interface is really simpler than the Arc4 to use. And the PC interface.. that is something I did for our own use. And it is very usefull to us. I wish I had an interface this useful when we were making the Arc4.

But that is for me to use, the problem is when I share it with others.

I am asking for your opinion about the pc interface. Does the fact you now know it exists make the light seem more complicated to use or less than a tool? Will you be afraid to get the light dirty and bang it around and use it like a solid tool?

Compared to the Arc4, the new LS is more water proof, more drop resistant and more durable under different operating conditions.

I know the tool is tough, but sometimes good products fail simply because of perception. Frankly, sharing a fun feature with you is not worth biting the hand that pays for my R&D. If it looks like this PC interface is scaring people off, I am going to move it off to the side.

Peter