Why so many reverse-clickies?

Does anyone know why so many foreign-made lights as well as some American-made lights(?) use reverse-clickies? I personally do not like them, and I know many of you also don't like them. If they are so unpopular, why do the companies keep using them? Are they cheaper than standard (forward)clickies? Less complicated? Anybody know?

It's certainly not because I buy them. I had one, but gave it away as a gift.

As soon as more folks find the new site, I'm sure you'll get some answers. I think they're cheaper to make, but that's just a guess.

I'd agree that on a single mode or L1T style (twist barrel for mode) flashlight, std clickie makes sense. But on a multilevel with push button ui like L1D, P2D, Mk IIx etc, reverse clickie is the way to go for simple operation.

reverse can be made much smaller, while, at the same time, much more rugged
cheaper also

dts71 said:

I'd agree that on a single mode or L1T style (twist barrel for mode) flashlight, std clickie makes sense. But on a multilevel with push button ui like L1D, P2D, Mk IIx etc, reverse clickie is the way to go for simple operation.

Click to expand...

makes so much sense for the multi level lights. Lots of people ask for forward clicly on the fenix lights....but I wouldn't use mine if it was.

Stu

Reverse-clicky is easier for me to use at work, since I'm walking around with it in the holster. Reach down for the light and it's ready to be turned on without even pulling it out. I've always thought that this was a more convenient design.

+1 to what yellow said.

dts71 said:

I'd agree that on a single mode or L1T style (twist barrel for mode) flashlight, std clickie makes sense. But on a multilevel with push button ui like L1D, P2D, Mk IIx etc, reverse clickie is the way to go for simple operation.

Click to expand...

I completely disagree. I hate reverse clickies with a passion and will not buy them...just personal preference, however.

Both reverse and normal clickies have their advantages.

Normal:
- easy use of momentary function

Reverse:
- smaller
- cheaper
- sturdier
- better for multilevel interfaces like those on Fenix lights
- less chance of accidental activation

But I really think the whole reverse vs. normal clickie discussion is blown way out of proportions. Come on, we're talking about 2mm of finger movement!

I've only had 1 reverse clicky light. The Fenix L2D CE.
I didn't like the noise the clicky made. In order to make light... I had to make a noise. A sharp "clink-clunk" popper switch noise before light was produced.
Ok, I could have twisted the tail cap instead - but that's too slow.
I like to be able to release light pulses rapidly and silently without twisting a cap or making a sound... it just... feels right, better, intuitive etc.,
So as a result I have joined the group that does not like reverse clicky switches

All of my lights are normal Clickies except for the Fenixes

MayCooper said:

Reverse:
- smaller
- cheaper
- sturdier
- better for multilevel interfaces like those on Fenix lights
- less chance of accidental activation

Click to expand...

It really comes down to how the switch itself is made. The generalization is equivalent to saying that since true sport car platforms are RWD, a 1950s RWD Bug is sportier than a Lotus Elan.

Just take a look at an Inova T switch and you will realize that 1. it is much sturdier than any Fenix switch, 2. it can be locked to prevent any accidental activation.

PS: to answer the original question, my guess is that most of the time it is used because it is simply cheaper.

pilou said:

...my guess is that most of the time it is used because it is simply cheaper.

Click to expand...

And that's not a small thing. If you were to require a forward clicky to not compromise on ANY of the other characteristics of, say, a Fenix clicky (size, 2+A current capability, resistance, isolation, reliability and durability), I'm guessing it wouldn't cost 20% more, it could cost several times or an order of magnitude more, which is a big deal.

What I don't like is when someone uses a forward clicky and compromises on some other performance factor - like reliability - so they don't have to pay the full freight of a proper forward clicky design. I like an intermittent on as much as the next person, but that's where I get off.

I've had good luck with the forward clicky in AW's VB-16 light (although I haven't used it much - mostly I end up pushing the power level buttons). I've had 4 of the Nuwai 2611X lights which have forward clickies, and I had to return one of the 4 for a bad clicky.

So - just subjectively - it seems that manufacturers might be scrimping just a little on their forward clicky specs to keep their forward clicky costs down.

Personally the style matters less than the emphasis on dependability..

I personally prefer standard clickie but reverse clickies are fine

Why not a both-way clickie?

Pressing the button part way
always changes the state of the light temporarily,
and it returns to the prior state when you let go,
unless you press it far enough to click.

Between the two, I almost always prefer the forward clicky, simply because I can pulse light off and on, and usually end up saving battery life in the process, where otherwise I might leave a reverse-clicky light running when it wasn't really needed, or be forced to hold the button partually depressed manually.

The only time that a reverse clicky is preferable IMHO is in the case of the Fenix lights where each successive click causes a mode-switch. In that case, true momentary use wouldn't really work anyway (as it would cause the light to switch levels).

There is another option however, that is simply to use a small, cheap, durable signal-level momentary switch, and use transistors controlled by a programmed circuit to switch the light off and on. This is the way the Photon Freedom works, and it gives the user the option to have the light on in momentary mode OR in standard mode, where the light can be clicked off and on. It also opens the door for features like click and hold for dimming.

Capacitivbe signal-level switches are smaller, and more durable than either forward or reverse clicky, and with the right interface (perhaps a twisty to go between momentary and standard) can offer better usability than either one.

prof said:

I completely disagree. I hate reverse clickies with a passion and will not buy them...just personal preference, however.

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, how would a forward clicky work with the Fenix P2D, for instance, and retain the capabilities and ease of the ui... and a similar price for the light?

Take care... Quinn

I don't find it to be a big hairy deal one way or the other.

I much prefer a reverse clickie to a push/twist. But then a good forward clickie beats a reverse.

All that said, my most used light is the Fenix P1 with a twist head! Though lately I've had the 1AA River Rock with me and it's reverse.

I know this is much harder but why not use electronic clickies, like the ones on you keyboard. They never seem to wear out. Tap(less then .25 second) for constant on and hold for momentary. But then signaling won't work. They do drain power when they are not used but that is not a problem for me. It would be great for a EDC but not good for a emergency light.

I think reverse clickies are uses since they are cheaper and the general public doesn't mind. And single button UI seems easier with reverse clickies.

MayCooper said:

Both reverse and normal clickies have their advantages....But I really think the whole reverse vs. normal clickie discussion is blown way out of proportions. Come on, we're talking about 2mm of finger movement!

Click to expand...

Momentary ON capability is crucial for certain applications by cops, SWAT, soldiers, etc. They can't get by using lights without momentary ON.

I'm not in any of those lines of work, but I've used lights with momentary ON all my life and prefer them out of habit and for convenience of use.

Momentary ON is also important for incan lights to conserve batteries. However, I've come to appreciate that momentary ON is not as necessary in LED lights because of their longer runtimes.

Underwater Kinetics, Streamlight, and Mag all make lights featuring momentary ON forward clickies with very good reliability and ergonomics.

These companies manage to do this in lights that aren't terribly expensive. If these companies can do it, other companies should be able to do it too.

.