LOD CE Cree and 'dunkability'

Walking in the Light

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My LOD CE (purchased 2 months ago from Lighthound) went with me while snorkeling/swimming in Hawaii with no apparent problems. Depth of water ranged from 2-7 feet. As I expected, that 'dunkable' rating is way conservative. Although the latest new version has a depth rating, this version should have a depth rating, also. FYI.
 

Luminescent

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My LOD CE (purchased 2 months ago from Lighthound) went with me while snorkeling/swimming in Hawaii with no apparent problems. Depth of water ranged from 2-7 feet. As I expected, that 'dunkable' rating is way conservative. Although the latest new version has a depth rating, this version should have a depth rating, also. FYI.

This is one thing that I really like about my little L0D and Jetbeam C-LE, is that both lights use very simple 'twisty' designs without the 'clicky' switch which is the usual point were a lot of lights have leak problems, and as a result both are much more watertight than typical 'clicky' designs. With the L0D or C-LE, as long as the o-rings in the head are doing their job, the light should stay watertight.

So, I think you got away with this, because the L0D's well sealed simple twisty design, but don't make the mistake of assuming that all of Fenix's [or even Surefires] 'clicky' lights are also 'way conservative' on their watertight ratings, or you might be 'way disappointed'. If you do a search, you will find lots of cases of high end 'clicky' lights leaking at the tail switch, when subjected to too much of a dunking.

This is why I always try to EDC a twisty light rather than a 'clicky', because it's comforting to know that if my car falls into an icy river at night, and I have to signal for help, that my flashlight absolutely WILL work, even if it takes more than a slight 'dunking' while I am getting out of the car.

Even with the 'twisty' lights like the L0D, I wouldn't push the depth too far while snorkeling, because the buildup of several pounds of water pressure on the lens could cause things to shift slightly and break the lens o-ring's seal allowing the light to leak. I usually test my lights for watertightness when they are new, then try to keep the o-rings well greased, but don't normally take them diving or snorkeling, as I have special purpose lights with even better seals for that (though it's nice to know that in a pinch, a quick swim is ok). :) :) :)
 
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MikeSalt

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I was poking around in my girlfriend's pond with my P1D-CE for about 15 minutes looking for a part that had fallen off her pump. The flashlight was underwater for all that time with no problems. Being how murky the water was though, an incandescent flashlight would have proved superior for this task.
 

Walking in the Light

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Thanks 'Luminescent' for your comments:D I have gone way overboard on this waterproof assumption and nearly ruined my DRACO not too long ago. But yes I have been impressed with the LOD's water resistant quality. As I noted, the newest LOD with the latest bulb is actually rated for some 10 feet. I think the design is similar except that they have done some official testing. By the way, I never dunk lights with clickie-type switches. I know THAT would be unwise. I think the standard of an AAA EDC that's waterproof got to be the Arc flashlight. I've also been very pleased with the super-tight seals of the Pierce torch. Best!:wave:
 

Luminescent

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I was poking around in my girlfriend's pond with my P1D-CE for about 15 minutes looking for a part that had fallen off her pump. The flashlight was underwater for all that time with no problems. Being how murky the water was though, an incandescent flashlight would have proved superior for this task.

The splashing around that you did sounds like exactly the kind of limited shallow immersion that the Fenix should shrug off.

From your description the dunking you gave your P1D was below even the IPX7 limits, and Fenix claims that their lights are IPX8 water resistant.

IPX7 = Product can survive immersion in 1 Meter of water for 30 Minutes without leaking.
IPX8 = Products specified for 'continious' immersion below 1 meter, but the manufacture gets to specify how long constitutes 'continous', and how deep below 1 Meter their product is rated.

Unfortunatly, as you can see, IPX8 is pretty vague. Many manufactures list 10 Meters for 30 minutes as thier IPX8 specs (just bumping up the IPX7 depth of 1 Meter up by a factor of 10).

I am not sure what IPX8 numbers Fenix is claiming, but some time back, someone on CPF was throwing around 12 feet (or 3.6 meters) for 24 hours, but I couldn't find any confirmation anywhere on the web that those are the numbers that Fenix claims to meet.

For the record, I have seen postings from a couple of folks whose Fenix's leaked at the tail cap after a very casual dunkings that were well below the IPX7 limits, never mind whatever IPX8 specs Fenix is claiming.
 
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LukeA

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Being how murky the water was though, an incandescent flashlight would have proved superior for this task.

Let's see, "incandescents cut fog better than LEDs because LEDs diffuse more blue light (the principle wavelength refelcted by fog)", but now "LEDs diffuse more red light (the principle wavelengeth reflected by brown sediment) than incandescents?" Both can't be true.
 

mchlwise

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...both lights use very simple 'twisty' designs without the 'clicky' switch which is the usual point were a lot of lights have leak problems, and as a result both are much more watertight than typical 'clicky' designs.

I mostly don't agree with this.

Twisties like the C-LE, the L0DCE, or even the Arc AAA due to their "one piece" body construction have less points of entry making them more water tight. BUT, they are also more prone to leak than a properly-maintained clickie when operated under water.

If you're turning it on in air, then taking it underwater and not twisting again until it's back in air, it should be fine. But if you twist it under water, it's much more likely to allow water in.

A properly-maintained clicky can be operated (as in turned on and off) under water much more reliably than a twisty can. By "properly-maintained", I mean lubed o-rings (which applies to both) tight tailswitch boot, etc.

If your tailswitch is installed loosely and not pressing on the boot properly, it will leak... which I suspect was the problem from previous reports. Fenix tailswitches are somewhat notorious for loosening up.
 

Luminescent

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I mostly don't agree with this.

Twisties like the C-LE, the L0DCE, or even the Arc AAA due to their "one piece" body construction have less points of entry making them more water tight. BUT, they are also more prone to leak than a properly-maintained clickie when operated under water.

If you're turning it on in air, then taking it underwater and not twisting again until it's back in air, it should be fine. But if you twist it under water, it's much more likely to allow water in.

A properly-maintained clicky can be operated (as in turned on and off) under water much more reliably than a twisty can. By "properly-maintained", I mean lubed o-rings (which applies to both) tight tailswitch boot, etc.

If your tailswitch is installed loosely and not pressing on the boot properly, it will leak... which I suspect was the problem from previous reports. Fenix tailswitches are somewhat notorious for loosening up.


Sorry, no offense, but your impressions are simply wrong in this area.

I am a scuba diver with hundreds of dives logged, and have owned several dive lights, as well as a high end Nikonos underwater camera with underwater flash and underwater light meter housings. All this equipment is rated to operate at maximum depths ranging from 30 meters to well over 100 meters, and every single one of them uses o-ring seals for ALL control inputs. NONE use 'rubber boots' like the one on the tail switch of your flashlight for anything .

There is a reason for this. An o-ring is designed such that when it is under high pressure it will wedge it's way to an even tighter seal rather than leaking. Even if it is disturbed by rotation as you turn on a twisty light, it normally won't leak a bit if properly lubricated, because the pressure on it is holding it in a tightly sealed condition.

On the other hand, the flat rubber edges of the typical tail switch boot, are pretty much the WORST way to try to maintain a seal at high pressure, because as water pressure pushes on the surface, it distorts in a way that lets water flow instead of cutting it off like an o-ring. Flexing the thing around by mashing on the button while underwater would just make this worse.

The best 'boot' design will have a thickened perfectly circular rounded edge (like an o-ring has been molded into the edge), so the edge of the boot can be trapped in a seal gap and work like an o-ring. By using this integral edge o-ring seal, and filling the void under the switch with non-conducting and non-compressible silicone oil, it is possible to make a membrane switch that will maintain a seal and work properly at more than 100 meters depth, but unfortunately I have NEVER seen such a sophisticated boot design on a flashlight. Even with that type of edge seal, the tail boot on a flashlight is subject to a lot of wear, and the rubber can develop porosity and tiny cracks over time, and these defects can be so small as to be completely unnoticeable UNTIL YOUR LIGHT LEAKS.
 

Khaytsus

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I really want to test my P2D CE that's been slightly modified for dunkability but I'm afraid to at the same time..

I think that clean water would be safe enough to test in.. ie: Fill up a sink or put it in the toilet reservoir for 10 minutes then check..

I've thought about putting something like a light tissue inside the light to easily see if it leaks.. I'd probably dunk it, then take it out, dry it, let it sit drying for a few minutes, then open it up and check the inside.
 

Daniel_sk

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I really want to test my P2D CE that's been slightly modified for dunkability but I'm afraid to at the same time..

I think that clean water would be safe enough to test in.. ie: Fill up a sink or put it in the toilet reservoir for 10 minutes then check..
What about destilled water? It doesn't conduct electricity, so maybe it would cause less or no harm in case the P2DCE leaks. (also it won't leave stains on the inside of the reflector and glass - if that happens).
Fenix flashlights are pretty waterproof, if you lube the o-rings.
Just a thought...
 

piney12

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As Mike Salt mentioned in another thread the Fenix lights are tested to IPX8.

Gary (Fenixstore) confirmed this to me in a post last
week. 30 minutes at 3 meters is what he mentioned.
(Not that I did not trust Mike)


That is pretty "dunkable" in my estimation.:p

Joe
 

Luminescent

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As Mike Salt mentioned in another thread the Fenix lights are tested to IPX8.

Gary (Fenixstore) confirmed this to me in a post last
week. 30 minutes at 3 meters is what he mentioned.
(Not that I did not trust Mike)


That is pretty "dunkable" in my estimation.:p

Joe

If the rubber tail-cap boot is in good shape, and everything is snugged down tight, I think the 3 Meter rating is probably accurate, but I don't think that Fenix individually tests this specification.

It is important to understand the difference between the DESIGN being tested to these specifications, vs. EACH UNIT being tested.

Fenix has reasonably good quality control compared to some other flashlights from that region of the world, but there have been quite a few reports of clicky switch problems (most because of a loose assembly at the tail switch).

I think these kinds of loose assembly QC issues may also account for some complaints of leaks.

It doesn't do any good to have a design which is IPX8 rated at 3 meters, if a loose retaining ring cuts that down to less than even the IPX7 1 meter limit, so that the light can leak even after only a quick dunk (which has happened to a few people).
 
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