Surefire 6p upgrdes - advice for newby please

I'd appreciate advice - as Machiavelli approximatly said there is nothing more valuable I can give than the expererince gained with many years toils and trouble and hardship - I would appreciate help from those with more expertise or "years" than I

The unelightened apellation with my tag is regrettably accurate at this time

I became aware of LED upgrades for my Maglights and now have those on the way - And during the search became distracted and so have a Surefire 6p on the way and wondering what upgrades should get for it. Thinking about an AA Fenix to for everyday carry but may wait till rebel 100 comes available as I assume it will

Obviously new to the space and are still getting on top of the technologies and jargon

The purpose of the Surefire 6p is a general purpose light so like multiple modes, but like the poterntial disorientation element as well as a bonus. I occasionaly have to do the manly thing when there are unexplained bumps or noises around the house or on the street.

So wondering about straight drop ins. While concerned about price to a degree are prepared to pay for quality if there is a reason and do the job right.

So wondering about

- Bulb upgrade - It sounds like a fast moving space - with the Rebel100 being best but have not seen where to get it for a 6p. They seem to match the output of the P61 bulb or am I reading that wrong? If the Crees are the best available what is the difference between the $12 versions and the $50 ones are the differences noticeable in practice - is there a significant difference in programming as well?
- Clicky upgrade ?? As I write I am a little unclear the relative benefits
- Rechargeable batteries 123's are relatively rare here so might invest in decent rechargeables and a charger (if can adjust itself to 240v). Not sure about protected/unprotected etc
- Good charger - that can adjust to 240v


Appreciate advice and opinions - and links to purchase sites too

:welcome: Davyd:

As for the P60 style drop in's there are a lot of them out there and you can get them from pirces of $5.00 up to lets say $70.00.

Depending on what you would like to spend, there are some nice ones at http://www.bugoutgearusa.com and of course there is the list of other great online places that you can find these things at. I wont list them all in here but do a CPF google search and you will see this is a much talked about topic and there is plenty of information already posted that could help you out with the online stores.

Almost forgot my favorite drop-in Malkoff P60 drop-in LED lamp assembly, run a search on that and read the reviews, great stuff.

:welcome: from a fellow Aussie

I think you will really like your 6p. As far as all the other options, I'd use your 6p for a couple of weeks or a month or so and get a feel for it. I have a couple of Surefire clickies for the 6p series as well as the standard LOTC's, and i'll be honest I prefer the standard one. Others prefer clickies, it is all preference and application...

There are numerous drop ins available for the Surefire 6p family, with the genuine Surefire P60L (L is for LED) being my preference. At the moment you can only get it by buying a G2L or 6PL. It will be at least as bright as your 6p, but instead of 1 hour on the p60 lamp you will get about 3 or 4 hours at full brightness, and it will dim until about the 12 hour mark where the batteries will be completely depleted. Cpfer Chevrofreak has done a great runtime graph in the reviews section.

As far as chargers and rechargable batteries etc go, Glen at Wolf Eyes Australia is a good source for these. Just make sure that the batteries etc will work in the specific setup you have. For example I run a Pila 168s in my Surefire L4 because it is a step up circuit. I am not sure on what setups work on the 6p led drop ins, I am sure others can help you though

Also check this thread about LED drop-ins. The many difference between the $12 and $50 versions is the quality and durability. If it's a everyday use light, the $10 drop-in will work just fine but if it is a light you depend you life on, spend more for a drop-in that you know will work every time.

Buy protected batteries. They have a circuity to prevent overcharge and overdischarge so the battery would not explode when you recharge it.

The Rebel 100 and Cree XR-E Q5 versions of the Fenix lights are both available. Check Fenix Store(Who also has a 8% off coupon for CPF users, "CPF8"). The L1D, L2D and P2D all have he same head so you could buy one light and have a body for 1AA, 2AA and 1 CR123 battery.

:welcome:

Thanks guys - Digesting this - please bear with me

Iam not sure if I am getting confused with Fenix by thinking of variable modes

Gunner
thanks - for the links to honest I am still overwhelmed. Do these dropins give a variable light mode ? The markoff sounds good if it does or is it only the Crees that do - if so what is the good one there? The bins thing is a little opaque to me. The Q5 from bugout I assume is very good but obviously pricey.
Does the voltage ratings matter ??

I am trying to find a source for L1D R100 fenix by email says (rapid response too) they are available as a unit - but have not found it through Google or fenix lights yet


Light
Hi from further south - good suggestion I will follow up with wolfeyes. However for me Unless I put a drop bulb in I will not use the light - at $12 per battery from **** Smith and no rechargeables available. I might get some sent from bugout.com at around $2.5 net price each. I'll try the tail thing and see how it goes

Malkoff

Thanks. what source do you suggest for the Malkoff ?and thanks for the link to bugout.com - Ironically it might be cheaper to ship batteries from the US including postage rather than buy them here! Is the cree Q5 as good as the R100 or Malkoff??

Davyd said:

Thanks guys - Digesting this - please bear with me

Iam not sure if I am getting confused with Fenix by thinking of variable modes

Gunner
thanks - for the links to honest I am still overwhelmed. Do these dropins give a variable light mode ? The markoff sounds good if it does or is it only the Crees that do - if so what is the good one there? The bins thing is a little opaque to me. The Q5 from bugout I assume is very good but obviously pricey.
Does the voltage ratings matter ??

I am trying to find a source for L1D R100 fenix by email says (rapid response too) they are available as a unit - but have not found it through Google or fenix lights yet


Light
Hi from further south - good suggestion I will follow up with wolfeyes. However for me Unless I put a drop bulb in I will not use the light - at $12 per battery from **** Smith and no rechargeables available. I might get some sent from bugout.com at around $2.5 net price each. I'll try the tail thing and see how it goes

Malkoff

Thanks. what source do you suggest for the Malkoff ?and thanks for the link to bugout.com - Ironically it might be cheaper to ship batteries from the US including postage rather than buy them here! Is the cree Q5 as good as the R100 or Malkoff??

Click to expand...

Hi Davyd,

Welcome to CPF!

You've got a lot of good questions!

Malkoff is a custom maker of LED mods whose items are in high demand and so if you want to buy you will have to wait for him to build a batch and then buy it very quickly.


The LED (Cree, Rebel, Seoul, luxeon) does not determine whether the drop in has multimode or not. That part is left to the circuitry. The circuitry can be simple and provide a constant drive current (eg. 750ma) or it can be variable; hence multi-mode. In the thread gunner linked to: if there's only one drive current (eg. 750ma) listed then it only goes on and off. If there's more than one mode, then you have a choice, most often selected by briefly cycling the light off and on.

Basically, LEDs do not come off a production line equal - they vary in terms of forward voltage, brightness and tint. Q5 is a brightness (flux) term that Cree use. Manufacturers therefore class their LEDs into "bins". The binning of LEDs is a bit of a pain but the following thread should help you:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1903261

With regards to fenix lights, David at fenix-store.com and John at lighthound.com are the people to go to!

If you're looking for cheap CR123s, I think the two best places are batterystation.com and lighthound.com, both of whom ship cheaply to Australia. You can get good quality CR123s for US 1.25 each from batterystation; tell them you're a CPFer. Lighthound goes down to 1.30 in quantities of 50. I would not bother to mess around with the cheap chinese CR123s - they have inferior capacity and safety - CR123s can explode.

With regards to voltage: if you are using primary (non-rechargeable) cells then you need drop ins that are rated for 6.0V (ie include 6.0V in their 'working range'). That is because the 6P/G2 run 2 CR123 batteries in series (3.0x2=6.0v). The voltage a drop in is rated at only begins to matter when you are using rechargeable cells, which are a whole another thing.

Rechargeable lithium ions are another kettle of fish. Have a look in the electronics and batteries section of the forum - there is a sticky thread there to get you started

Us Melburnians are having a CPF meet at Jells Park this Saturday, if you'd like to come! You are more than welcome to! If you need some CR123s to keep you going, come along and I'll give you some to keep you going.
Here's the thread!!! https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174814

Thanks guys and Grox - it appears that I am not alone over here!

After hours of looking at Led dropins I am still not on top of it, particularly if thinking of disposable or rechargeable batteries?

I assume that the voltage range .i.e. 3.7-4.2 specifies a maximum - but then why are there refernces to 6p here which is a 6v light? http://www.supertactical.com/unlimitshop/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=68

would this one work? It says 4.2v but indicates it is for 6p
http://www.supertactical.com/unlimitshop/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=68

Does it really have a higher percieved maximum than this
http://www.supertactical.com/unlimitshop/product_info.php?cPath=1_28&products_id=94

batteries - relieved that there are cheaper options and that rechargeables are an option - can somone give a link to their favourite cr123 protected and charger if possible? USB charger might alos be good - if slow.Are any 123 rechargeables more shelf stable like Sanyo enerloops?

Grox I think I am already out on Saturday but if you get around southbank happy to buy you a drink

Appreciate the help

Cheers Davyd

Bad luck about Saturday. I don't see myself being in the city this week but if I am I'll give you a tingle alright?

You're right about the voltage range being maximums and minimums. Some lights will respond more gracefully than others if you run them outside their specifications. For example, if you run some circuits at voltages higher than their maximum you may damage the circuitry, in others you may just drive the LED harder.

I would stick to a voltage within range if I were you.

This voltage thing is a little confusing to start off with.

Primary (non-rechargeable) batteries are designated CR123 and are rated at a 'nominal' 3.0V. Using two cells as in the 6p will give you 6.0V.

The majority of lithium ion rechargeable batteries are rated at a nominal 4.2V. Lithium ion rechargeables come in a variety of shapes and sizes. They also have different capacities. For example, you can buy a single lithium rechargeable which is the size of 2 CR123 cells stuck end to end which will slide into your 6p/G2 nicely. Say you wanted to go down this path - you want 1 cell to fit into your 6P and you want that 1 cell to work with your desired drop-in. That single cell will be rated at 4.2V nominal so need to find a drop-in that is rated for 4.2V - which are what you've linked to above!

The short story of rechargeables is basically to only buy AW *PROTECTED* rechargeables ONLY. Lithium ion rechargeables have the potential to be dangerous, even more so than primary cells. There is no but about this. AW cells have a number of safety features which help to lessen this risk. He also sells good chargers. (AW is a member here who sells his own privately made and branded cells; see the dealer's corner for more information)

Lithium ion rechargables are 'named' after their dimensions. For example an 18650 cell (commonly found in laptops) is 18mm in diameter by 650mm long. Generally, the larger the cell, the higher the capacity. There is also the confusing convention of naming CR123-sized rechargeables R123 or RCR123 cells (in dimension nomenclature, these cells are also called 16340).

There's really no substitute for sitting down and reading about the rechargeable cells; the flashlight electronics forum sticky thread is a good place to start.

If you were to ask me for recommendations for a rechargeable setup, I would say buy a 17670 or 17500 from AW (I'm not sure which fit the new 6Ps; the 17670 certainly used to fit) and a Cree drop-in from dealextreme.com.

Sanyo Eneloop batteries are low self discharge NiMh batteries which are rated at 1.2V - you can't use them in your surefire lights. Lithium ion rechargeables don't really suffer from a high discharge rate, unlike the normal NiMh batteries you might be familiar with, which discharge themselves fairly quickly.

PS: I am not familiar with the supertactical modules so I can't comment on them.
PPS. Have you looked at the reviews section? There are reviews with runtimes of some P60 LED drop-in modules over there

Grox explained the voltage thing pretty well(except that a 18650 battery is 65mm long, not 650 mm long, I think the 0 means cylindrical shape). You could buy cheaper Li-ion batteries but make sure thy are protected and be more careful with them. The 17670 ones are supposed to fit almost all 2 CR123 lights.

If you need a wide voltage range, the best I've seen is this one.

There aren't any L1D-Rebel 100 or L1D-CE Q5 available but you could make one by buying the L2D-CE Q5(brighter) or the L2D-Rebel 100(Better color rendering) and the L1D body. Then you have the option of 1AA or 2AA.

David, Grox has given you some great information. A quick clarification to be added: the 17670 is designed to replace 2 of the 123-sized lithium batteries and will work in your 6P, but NOT with the original bulb (the bulb is designed for 6.0V, while a single 17670 is listed at 3.6 or 3.7 volts--but freshly charged will actually be more like 4.2 volts). A single 17670 does not produce enough voltage to run your stock P60 bulb (or the P61, for that matter).

The 17500 is designed to be used in pairs, and replaces 3 of the 123-sized lithium batteries. This would be for the 9-volt Surefire flashlights, such as the 9P or G3.

As already noted, it is important to make sure that your LED drop-in is able to handle the voltage that you plan to use.

1x17670 = REPLACES: 2x123-sized lithiums -- VOLTAGE: 3.7-4.2

2x17500 = REPLACES: 3x123-sized lithiums -- VOLTAGE: 7.2-8.4

2x16340 = REPLACES: 2x123-sized lithiums -- VOLTAGE: 7.2-8.4

I just received one of the Deal Extreme sku 6090 LED modules, and put it in one of my 6P's today. I'm pleasantly surprised. Enough so that I ordered three more for my other d26 lights.

I want to try one of the Malkoff or BugOutGear USA drop-ins, to see the difference.

I'm also using the AW RCR123 rechargeable cells, and I'm very pleased with the run time with an LED. They work well with an incandescant, also, but I'm really becoming a huge fan of the new LED's.

ETA: Go to dealextreme.com and enter "6090" as a search term.

Here is another big welcome from another aussie

lightemup said:

As far as chargers and rechargable batteries etc go, Glen at Wolf Eyes Australia is a good source for these.

Click to expand...

I second lightemup on this, further to this Glen also sells WE LED drop ins that will fit into your 6P along with Lumens Factory Incan drop ins and any batteries necessary to make them work. Postage from Sydney is much cheaper (and faster) than from the US, plus if there is a problem Glen is very helpful.

His website is
www.quarterflash.com.au
drop him an email, he will happily talk it over with you

Gunner12 said:

Grox explained the voltage thing pretty well(except that a 18650 battery is 65mm long, not 650 mm long, I think the 0 means cylindrical shape).

Click to expand...

Yep.

With regards to the dangers of lithium ion rechargeables: it would be well worth your time to research them!

Davyd, I hope that you're learning a lot and that in the future we'll see you around on CPF a lot more

Please let us know how you go and what you choose :thumbsup:

:twothumbsThanks - rather than being opaque it is now just a heavy fog!

Having read and examined all your posts (a number of times) I decided on some Forward momentum (partially so I get sleep rather than huddling over the internet at night)

It seems a decent drop in, of reasonable performance (I could not find a multimode dropin with better performance) Ideally it would have been a Q5 or a reble100 but they do not seem to be available

Ultrafire 4-Mode 3.7V~6V Cree P4 Drop-in Module $12.48 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7162

Also from deal extreme bought a battery charger (the reccomended one) and some protected CR123a's - (as well as some cheap mosquito repellers) I know I can't use the rechargeables with the incandescent bulb but I iented to remove that as soon as the package arrives

For when rechargeables are not around, I have ordered 20 CR123's from batterystation.com

The Austalian suppliers have been good and I will look closely at themfor a Fenix L1D around christmas hopefuly wehn the next generation LEDs have come out for them



Thanks all

NB Also the Dr.Led copy of the P6 that I ordered before this web searching arrived today _ I assume that it is likely to be highly superseded technology and that the Surefire with its upgrades will surpass it noticeably. It does not sepcify which Cree it has so I asume it is very much a base version

NNB Thanks to the welcomes, Including the Aussies - I shan't see you on Saturday as I have a day at the Spring Carnival Races with my family. I really don't enjoy wearing suits outside especially on the weekend! A Tie - talk about outdated technology:shrug:

How did that Dr. LED 6P copy turn out? Looks like a very solid light.

Garnece

Actually I am pleasantly surprised it works quite well. The simple high low system works quite well in comparison to some of the complex multimode systems I have now tried.

I havent done a big comparison to the surefire with its dropins but it is quite reasonable. It is a nice enough unit at the price - just watch out for the shipping charges if buying off ebay

Cheers

David