BOBBYBOB
Newly Enlightened
Why did I have to use a drop-in Q5 to upgrade my Surefire? Why don't
they just start producing a light with the newest technology? Thanks
they just start producing a light with the newest technology? Thanks
Surefire and Cree
- Thread starter BOBBYBOB
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The Porcupine
Enlightened
Unless Surefire steps in and answers that question, most answers will just be guesswork.
There has been a lot of speculation here as to why Surefire didn't produce lights with the "latest and greatest" emitters and (again just guessing) they seem to focus more on well tested products with a balance of output and runtime, than on output alone.
There has been a lot of speculation here as to why Surefire didn't produce lights with the "latest and greatest" emitters and (again just guessing) they seem to focus more on well tested products with a balance of output and runtime, than on output alone.
:wave:
stitch_paradox
Enlightened
I think this thread might end up with SF bashing again. IMO, why don't the OP just email Surefire directly and ask them, THEN share the answer to us. Instead of asking a us people who don't work for Surefire for answers. Unless of course this is a trolling post.
I think you might be right.
Surefire is more interested in proven technology. Technology with a track record. "Latest & Greatest" is the exact opposite of that. Surefire's main customers is the military. Not the sort of client who wants the latest fad. Surefire is likely just catering to their Bread & Butter client.
kramer5150
Flashaholic
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
My guess...
The 6PL has been around for what... 18-24 months now? So that means design conception was probably being done over 2 years ago. What was the status of Cree LEDs back then? Were they the rock solid stable products they are today? or were they more of a risk from a quality standpoint? What was Crees business stability back then? Were they as financially stable as they are today? Were they a stable company to partner businesses with? How about part availabilty? Were there unreasonably long lead times for parts?... or were they as easily obtainable as they are today.
I think as long as the current rendition 6PL sells, there will be no financial gain/incentive to re-design. Although they are working on the P61L for fall release (AFAIK), not sure if it uses a Cree though.
Please don't degenerate this thread into a jeer session, use the marketplace for that... this could be an interesting discussion if kept on topic. I find the business side of CPF just as interesting as the products themselves.
My guess...
The 6PL has been around for what... 18-24 months now? So that means design conception was probably being done over 2 years ago. What was the status of Cree LEDs back then? Were they the rock solid stable products they are today? or were they more of a risk from a quality standpoint? What was Crees business stability back then? Were they as financially stable as they are today? Were they a stable company to partner businesses with? How about part availabilty? Were there unreasonably long lead times for parts?... or were they as easily obtainable as they are today.
I think as long as the current rendition 6PL sells, there will be no financial gain/incentive to re-design. Although they are working on the P61L for fall release (AFAIK), not sure if it uses a Cree though.
Please don't degenerate this thread into a jeer session, use the marketplace for that... this could be an interesting discussion if kept on topic. I find the business side of CPF just as interesting as the products themselves.
There is the L1 cree 
im guessing they dont push them LEDs to hard, because doing that reduces the lifespan of the LED...and increases chances of it failing, and also brings heat up to levels that become a real problem.
and the difference between Q5s and, say maybe Q2s they might be using, isnt big enough to warrent a whole change
Cree rings may also be an issue with surefire, because they have always advertised to have ring-free beams.
Crenshaw
im guessing they dont push them LEDs to hard, because doing that reduces the lifespan of the LED...and increases chances of it failing, and also brings heat up to levels that become a real problem.
and the difference between Q5s and, say maybe Q2s they might be using, isnt big enough to warrent a whole change
Cree rings may also be an issue with surefire, because they have always advertised to have ring-free beams.
Crenshaw
I think he genuinely was just curious. It doesn't sound like a trolling post to me anyhow.
I think if he asked SF, they'd just give him some generic answer which I suppose it ok....since they're Surefire. Their lights speak for themselves.
Caligvla
Newly Enlightened
SureFire's primary customers are not consumers... SureFire will always be slow to the punch because of all the testing and quality control required by their bread and butter customers, govt. military, LE, etc...
If you want proven quality and durability buy SureFire... if you want fairly current technology and not have life and death demands out of your flashlight buy Fenix...
Edit: Sorry Monocrom, I didn't see your earlier post... we are on the same page here...
PAB
Enlightened
I thought the current 6PLED and G2LED came out last fall and that they do use Crees. The P60L uses the same Cree XR-E. 80 lumens and something like 3.5 hours to 50% in the 6PLED.
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PAB
Enlightened
Many of the larger companies take around 2 years to bring new innovations to the general market. Surefire seems to respond in under a year which seems pretty good. Smaller companies that have smaller inventories and shorter supply lines can change much more quickly. That's why you see them make after market upgrades so quickly. But you mostly can only find them on the internet as opposed to a retail store.
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
they actually SSC P4s for the P60L, good call since the Seouls use same emitting pattern as the Luxeons and work better with reflectors. Crees are best utilized with optics.
any company with a lath can produce a poorly designed "module" with poor heat transfer with little concern with life span of the light, if their goal were to drive the LED as hard as possible, and claim the highest number that's theoretically possible. To top it off a cheap reflector that was at best somewhat focused with the Cree LED.
THe P60Ls are nothing short of state of the art in its heatsinking and temperature-sensitive regulation. of course if one were just looking to use the "throw" to wow his drinking buddies then the Surefires are not for you.
COmpare a high quality module like the P60L with other drop ins, the only one that I can say is better is the Malkoff modules. The rest, well, are good for impressing the buddies, I'm sure.
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gottawearshades
Enlightened
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2007
- Messages
- 986
Howdy. It's my understanding that the latest in the L1/E1L/E2L/E1B/etc all use Cree Q5s.
It seems that Surefire designed an optic around the Cree--which is very popular here on CPF, and I love the beam myself. And they have decided that they will use Seoul P4s--also pretty close to the latest technology--are best with a reflector.
Cheers.
It seems that Surefire designed an optic around the Cree--which is very popular here on CPF, and I love the beam myself. And they have decided that they will use Seoul P4s--also pretty close to the latest technology--are best with a reflector.
Cheers.
Federal LG
Flashlight Enthusiast
BOBBYBOB looks like sincere in his post. I think he´s not trying to start a SF bash thread.
Well, about the question, I think that right now there might be tons of Cree Q5 LEDs being tested, day after day, night after night, time after time, in someplace over Surefire factory.
I think they will only launch the latest LED when they would be absolutely certain that the latest LED itself can provide the quality that SF is notorius for.
In the meanwhile, they´ll keep testing, testing, testing.
The problem is that the LED tech evolution is too fast, and doesn´t combine with a long time (years) of testing... While they´re testing, new LEDs are being released.
But, my opinion, I agree with this SF way.
Well, about the question, I think that right now there might be tons of Cree Q5 LEDs being tested, day after day, night after night, time after time, in someplace over Surefire factory.
I think they will only launch the latest LED when they would be absolutely certain that the latest LED itself can provide the quality that SF is notorius for.
In the meanwhile, they´ll keep testing, testing, testing.
The problem is that the LED tech evolution is too fast, and doesn´t combine with a long time (years) of testing... While they´re testing, new LEDs are being released.
But, my opinion, I agree with this SF way.
Brownstone
Enlightened
I have no connection with SureFire, and the following is just conjecture, but here is my guess.
SureFire sells flashlights in tremendous volume, and they have a reputation for quality that they need to maintain.
Part of that reputation comes from the consistency of their products. When two SureFire owners compare the same model flashlight side-by-side, they should expect the two flashlights to perform the same. That means that SureFire needs LEDs that are binned very close in brightness and color.
I suspect that SureFire's need for consistency AND their need for high volumes is what leads them to reject the "latest greatest" thing. There is no way that CREE could commit to providing that supply given the variability in their production output.
Size15's
Flashaholic
I understand Brownstone's perspective but I would not underestimate SureFire's ability to secure both quality and quantity when it comes to purchasing LEDs.
SureFire has never been one to get into the bin naming game of LED one-upmanship, just as SureFire has sometimes very different ideas of what makes an LED ideal for use in its flashlights compared to some CPF members.
When "technology" is mentioned in the context of flashlights I don't tend to consider the LED first as the most important piece of technology. That's far too crude IMHO not to acknowledge that a gemstone needs a well designed piece of jewellery to ensure it sparkles.
SureFire has never been one to get into the bin naming game of LED one-upmanship, just as SureFire has sometimes very different ideas of what makes an LED ideal for use in its flashlights compared to some CPF members.
When "technology" is mentioned in the context of flashlights I don't tend to consider the LED first as the most important piece of technology. That's far too crude IMHO not to acknowledge that a gemstone needs a well designed piece of jewellery to ensure it sparkles.
Brownstone
Enlightened
Hi Size15's,
I'm certain you know far more about SureFire than I do, so I don't want to contradict you.
I just want to clarify that my point was that I doubted Cree could supply the upper bins in the quantity and quality that SureFire would require, and I wasn't trying to cast aspersions on SureFire's procurement abilities.
I agree with you; there is more to the light than the emitter, and SureFire has many requirements to balance in making their decisions.
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Size15's
Flashaholic
I agree it must be a challenge for companies that are growing to secure premium components in ever increasing numbers. It is certainly worth considering this when deciding to compare manufacturers
O.K. I've now since changed my attitude regarding this topic. I didn't realize the logistics involved in bringing a new product/upgrade to the market. Surefire does test their products very harshly in the field to ensure that the product will perform as intended.
I stand corrected (although I would like Surefire to hurry & invent a 500 Lumen 6P LED Upgrade...)
:shakehead:huh:
I didn't realize the logistics involved in bringing a new product/upgrade to the market. Surefire does test their products very harshly in the field to ensure that the product will perform as intended.I stand corrected (although I would like Surefire to hurry & invent a 500 Lumen 6P LED Upgrade...)
:shakehead:huh:
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