The light I want - does it exist?

Hey everyone -

Not long ago, I had decided on what I thought would be my first set up - it was going to be a Surefire 6P with warm, floody, Malkoff drop-in. The reviews for it were great, the beamshots from the Malkoff unit looked lovely...

...but then, I started to read the stories about CR123 cells exploding/venting/call it what you will. I had been willing to put up with the greater expense and scarcer everyday availability of these cells...but given the risk (however small) of them exploding...I got pretty turned by the idea of carrying a light like that around with me. I realize that many people do, everyday, but it put me right off.

So, I started to reconsider AA lights for an EDC. One
which really stood out was the EagleTac P10A2. The only thing which made me say "argh!" was its "cool white" LED.

I've heard some people say that it has a "great tint", but what makes a tint "great"? What I'm looking for (and hoping to find) in a tint is something both aesthetically pleasing (I find greenish or bluish LED light a bit revolting to my eyes) and accurate in rendering details and color, especially outdoors. I realize that incandescent fits the bill, but I hope for the sake of economy and durability to stay with LED.

The TK20 is out for me - I can't come to grips (no pun intended) with that rubber section, and great as it's warm tint sounds, it seems like it's too throwy for me. I want some throw, sure, but I like a decent amount of smooth spill, also.

Now, I just read that someone found the tint of the EagleTac "neutral". Hmm...

I have read through threads, but I would really appreciate as much input about the tint and color/detail rendering of the P10A2 as possible...and is "cool" really "neutral", or is it more blue than neutral, or...?

If there are any other suggestions for lights I may wish to consider, I would appreciate them. I think I've spent enough time here by now to know that I'd like the following:

-AA or AAA
-150+ lumens
-LED
-Durable
-Pleasing, accurate tint (no green/blue cast) with good rendering
-No PWM (I get bothered by flickering, even when others say they don't detect it)
-Multi-output
-Good throw, but not at the expense of spill/flood
-OP Reflector
-Smooth beam pattern (easy transition from hot spot to spill, little to no rings/artifacts
-Tailstands (not a deal maker/breaker)

I realize I basically described the P10A2. Again, the tint, the tint. I would happily sacrifice a bit of its tremendous output for a better tint.

Given that I'm still learning, please forgive me for asking, but - is it possible to change the LED in the P10A2 to a warmer version? Or does anyone make a suitable drop-in/offer this service?

Thanks again for putting up with my incessant questions about these things.

Cheers,

R.ticle One

alkaline batteries have a worse problem leaking than 123s will ever have exploding and that problem exsistant with good name brand batteries

R.ticle One said:

Hey everyone -


...but then, I started to read the stories about CR123 cells exploding/venting/call it what you will. I had been willing to put up with the greater expense and scarcer everyday availability of these cells...but given the risk (however small) of them exploding...I got pretty turned by the idea of carrying a light like that around with me. I realize that many people do, everyday, but it put me right off.

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Yikes! Make sure you never visit one of those medical sites or else you'll never leave the house!!

Seriously though, CR123s are safe. In each of the stories you read, if you look again you will find one or both of these things the user did in those cases:

1. They used the cheap, Chinese made cells.

2. They used one full battery and one partially depleted battery.

Avoid those two things and your safety will be as assured as it is sitting in your living room. If you have a half used battery you don't want to just throw away, label it and save it for a SINGLE cell application. Make sure the batteries you buy are from known and listed good brands/sources. Those will all be made in either the US or Japan. Surefire branded batteries are considered the best and cost a small fraction of what Wal-Mart or Walgreens sells CR123s for. A little research here and shopping where we tell you will yeild good, safe batteries around a dollar each.

CR123s are worth it!

Cool means it may lean toward to colder or bluish side. But in my experience most Cree LED's seem very white unless side by side with another one. Neutral tints tend to have slightly less lumen output than cooler tints. The only light I know of that comes close to what your are looking for might be the Liteflux LF5XT but it's not quite 150 Lumens. Almost no Cree based lights except Liteflux and maybe one other have a really '-Smooth beam pattern (easy transition from hot spot to spill, little to no rings/artifacts'. And with the Liteflux if you order from LED_Cool on CPFM he can probably hand pick you a good tint that you want. If you go to 2 x AA cells you may find some other lights that fill some of your requests but probably not a smooth beam. If you go with an Seoul P4 LED you will get a smoother beam but are much more likely to get a bluish tint. Osram Golden Dragon LED's might get you what you want but they are not as common yet. The Nitecore D10 AA light has one but it's single AA and still not 150+ lumens. Eagletacs are bright for sure if you like just a 2 mode light but I'm not sure how you may fair on getting the right tint. You might also look at the Jetbeam Pro's in AA but unless you are running a AA size replacement in Li-Ion (14500 cell) you're not going to see 150+ lumens. Take a look at the Jetbeam Pro EX which is 2 x AA and about 170 claimed lumens - BOG has them for a good price right now. You've got an OP reflector but you'll still not get as good of beam as the Liteflux. And tint is probably going to be a bit of lottery.

Wattnot said:

Yikes! Make sure you never visit one of those medical sites or else you'll never leave the house!!

Seriously though, CR123s are safe. In each of the stories you read, if you look again you will find one or both of these things the user did in those cases:

1. They used the cheap, Chinese made cells.

2. They used one full battery and one partially depleted battery.

Avoid those two things and your safety will be as assured as it is sitting in your living room. If you have a half used battery you don't want to just throw away, label it and save it for a SINGLE cell application. Make sure the batteries you buy are from known and listed good brands/sources. Those will all be made in either the US or Japan. Surefire branded batteries are considered the best and cost a small fraction of what Wal-Mart or Walgreens sells CR123s for. A little research here and shopping where we tell you will yeild good, safe batteries around a dollar each.

CR123s are worth it!

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+1 - I much prefer CR123 and RCR123 based lights but do have some AA/14500 lights just for the verstality of having access to huge amounts of batteries in a worst case scenario. I've also come to like a couple lights I've got that use AA Eneloops with their low self discharge tech.

Exploding CR123s are rare and there are usually contributing factors like mixed cell brands or one dead cell.With common sense,avoiding off-brand cells and a ZTS battery tester I have no problem using CR123s.
If your set on AA or AAA the Jetbeam Element with the neutral tint CREE may be worth a look.I don't have one but it looks promising even though it is large for a single AA light and is less than 150 lumens you request.I don't think you will find many "warm" tinted lights in the 150 lumen + range.

If you are looking for perfect color rendition with LED's, look elsewhere. You aren't going to find it with high lumen output, anyway. The McGizmo SunDrop for $440 will give you the color rendition you want, but you are going to have to use CR123 cells in it, and it only puts about 40 lumens, and has 3 levels. It is a flood light with almost no throw.
If you will settle for less than perfect color rendition (most of us do who love everything else about LEDs), you can find a lot of lights that will fill the bill you suggest..

The LiteFlux LX5XT will give you multilevels, an OP reflector and about the smoothest beam you are going to find in a AA LED light. The R2 emitter gives fairly good color rendition, is bright and fairly efficient. The beam is on the cool but not blue side, with some tint variation amont different samples. The only problem is you would have to get one soon, since the manufacturer is switching LED's to the colder Q5's (EliteLED.COM still has the R2s). It tailstands. It is programmable and complex to set up, but once set up, you probably won't alter it much. There is no flickering.

Another choice might, be the NiteCore D10 GD plus. While some people don't like its troublesome PD switch, others think it is great. The beam is about as smooth as the LiteFlux, although again there is a LED tint lottery, some warmer than others.. A nice clip is available for it. It tail stands, and its interface is very simple. It is supposed to have better color rendition than a Q5 with no artifacts of the typical Q5, but IMO, its color rendition is no better. I personally think the R2 is just as good. There is no flickering with this either.

Sorry, I can't help you with Eagle Tac.


One last comment about lithiums. Primary lithiums won't explode. It is only the rechargable lithiums you need the least bit be concerned with. Even, then, it would be extremely rare for a single rechargable lithium,a protected cell, to explode in a light or even in a charger. Most reports concern 2 cell lights, where one of the rechargable lithium cells is mismatched to the other cell either in terms of capacity or voltage. If you are careful to buy quality protected R123 cells, like the AW brand, charge them in pairs and check them afterwards to see they are of the same voltage, you shouldn't have a problem with them. If you always keep the same pair together and use them together, you really don't have to check their voltages every time, either. (Perhaps, the first time or two you should, just to be sure one isn't defective.)

Keep the setup you have. If explosions bother you maybe you could try the IMR "safe" chemistry AW cells. You get less capacity but no Kb!

I have never had a Kb. Primary CR123's are very safe.

1 Measure of protection is getting a cheap ZTS mini tester and make sure when you feed your light you use batteries that read the same. It is simple and quick to have all the peace of mind you require.

Sorry my advice does not give you a reason to go buy another light!

Fenix L1D CE Q5 fits all of your criteria, except it is 120 lumens instead of 150

Thanks for the replies thus far, everyone. I will look at some of these. Regarding the Fenix L1D CE Q5, I checked it out on Light-Reviews, and it appears to have a rather green-hued tint to me...according to the review there, as well.

Now, maybe this has something to do with how the circuitry of a light works that I don't understand, but - what's to stop someone from simply replacing the cool white emitter of the P10A2 with a "neutral" or "warm" one? Surely this can be done, or not?

Cheers,

R.ticle One

R.ticle One said:

Not long ago, I had decided on what I thought would be my first set up - it was going to be a Surefire 6P with warm, floody, Malkoff drop-in. The reviews for it were great, the beamshots from the Malkoff unit looked lovely...

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I'd stick with your first instinct; great set-up! Plus you can always change the module to anything you want, including ones that haven't been made (yet!).

R.ticle One said:

...but then, I started to read the stories about CR123 cells exploding/venting/call it what you will.

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If you carry a cell phone in your pocket every day, then you carry a rechargeable LiIon battery pack in your pocket- every day! Primary Lithium cells are considered even safer than rechargeable ones, which can be quite safe when used properly.

Off topic (sort of): Has anyone ever heard of a cell phone battery exploding?

Nope.

Me neither.

CR123 batteries are very safe. As long as you don't ignore the warnings on the packaging, there's almost no risk of anything bad happening. People will tell you to use American or Japanese made cells, rather than Chinese. I've personally gone through hundreds of $1/pc Titanium cells (made in China) without any sort of malfunction. I've run them in my M3 with HOLA until the light is too hot to hold and they didn't explode. I've since switched to Panasonic, mainly for their higher capacity, but I feel a bit better buying batteries that are made in America (not just for safety).

Seriously, just look at the lights I have. I've been carrying a CR123 powered light in my pocket for several years. I don't know what all of the fuss is about.

My cells say: "...Do not recharge, disassemble, heat above 212°F (100°C) or incinerate. Do not mix with used or other battery types..." People around here will tell you much the same thing, and it's not hard to follow those rules.

Never heard of a cell phone battery exploding. I even charged mine with a bench power supply in a pinch. I've had a LiPoly puff up, but I just threw it away, and I didn't hear about any garbage trucks exploding soon thereafter. I know that LiPolys (which most cell phones and mp3 players use) can be quite dangerous if abused, but that's just like anything else, really.

I have an LD01 SS and compared to an R bin lux it looks pink but alone it is like a vanilla yellow. I don't think you will ever get a perfect neutral white and know you have it because you will compare it to something almost neutral and then it will seem to have a tint too.

I have two Eagletac lights. THe T10C2, and the P10A2. Both are just excellent lights. What is so good about them, in my opinion, is the total power and how well the strong spill blends into the center spot. THey do this with an OP reflector. I don't care for a super bright hot spot, then dark, than spill.

These are the best of any lights I have seen at blending a strong center spot into a very powerful spill. There is no dark in between area that has you moving the light around to find something. Tints don't bother me- but I understand your preference. It should be possible to have the Led swapped at some time if you love the light, but not the tint.

naked2 said:

Off topic (sort of): Has anyone ever heard of a cell phone battery exploding?

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Exploding no, but catching fire during recharging once.

Lighthouse one said:

These are the best of any lights I have seen at blending a strong center spot into a very powerful spill.

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Have you seen the Fenix TK10? Don't get me wrong, I have two EagleTacs as well; a P10C and T10L. They're both excellent lights, and although the TK10 has a slightly larger hotspot, it's brighter overall, and IMO accomplishes much better what you describe above, and has a more pleasing tint (to me).

baterija said:

Exploding no, but catching fire during recharging once.

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First hand experience, or Urban Legend?