Best battery/driver configuration for a Mag SSC P7 mod?

p13m4n

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I'm planning to put a SSC P7 in a 3D Maglite; first time modding. I have a question, if you guys don't mind.

What kind of configuration (battery and driver) would have the longest run time whilst running at 3A? Li-Ion? NiMH?
I was thinking of something like:
a) a D***I emitter, this sandwiched driver (scroll down for the 3A one) and 3 NiMH D cells
b) a D***J emitter, this buck driver and 3 protected Li-Ion 32650s

Thanks in advance.
 
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Greg G

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I would buy a DSWOI from Photonfanatic in the marketplace. For a driver I would use either a Sandwiche Shoppe SharkBuck, or a Taskled Hipcc or Hipflex.

For a battery pack you could use 3 D size NiMH, but I like the Fivemega 12aa - 3D adaptor better because it won't drop out of regualation like the D cell pack will. The D size NiMH batteries take forever to charge also. The AA's charge pretty fast in my Maha 808M.

Glue the emitter down to an anodized heatsink.
 
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spencer

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If you go with your second option I can't recommend the driver or the batteries to you. I went with the same driver but only 2 of those batteries. The batteries came with a charger. The driver would cut out (probably overheated) after about 1 min on high and flicker in between high and low. Then the modes stopped working and I was stuck with low. Now the whole thing doesn't even work. There is really no option to heatsink the driver otherwise I would have. Before the driver stopped working the charger grossly overcharged my cells. The protection circuit did not cut in. Now the cells have almost no capacity. KD will not even give me anything back for it when both problems are clearly manufacturing defects because it is longer than a month since I purchased it.

If you want to know what I think about another option here it is.
The LED that Greg G recommended.
The Shark Buck from the Sandwich Shoppe
3 Saft VL34570 batteries.
The batteries are quite expensive but IMO worth the cost over the KD cells. I can't have things that I have purchased malfunctioning and then not getting a refund.
 

p13m4n

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Hmm, interesting opinions. Both of you seem to like higher voltages. It would appear that drivers are more efficient when the input voltage is closer to the output voltage... How about 12 NiMH AAs wired in parallel with the previously mentioned sandwich driver? Looks like the AMC7135 modules on the boards achieve pretty decent efficiency.
 
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spencer

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Hmm, interesting opinions. Both of you seem to like higher voltages. It would appear that drivers are more efficient when the input voltage is closer to the output voltage... How about 12 NiMH AAs wired in parallel with the previously mentioned sandwich driver? Looks like the AMC7135 modules on the boards achieve pretty decent efficiency.
I is lower voltage than J. A D***I emitter is more efficient than a D***J emitter. That is why you should use the I binned LED.
You could use 12AA batteries but you would have to get your 3D (I assume thats what your using) quad bored for a fee and 12AA would (on average) have less power than 3D NiMH cells.
 

Greg G

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Hmm, interesting opinions. Both of you seem to like higher voltages. It would appear that drivers are more efficient when the input voltage is closer to the output voltage... How about 12 NiMH AAs wired in parallel with the previously mentioned sandwich driver? Looks like the AMC7135 modules on the boards achieve pretty decent efficiency.

I don't don't how the SharkBuck is going to act when it goes into DD. I still like the FiveMega 12AA-3D battery holder scenario better.

You *could* also dual bore the tube and use 18650's, but you'd only be able to run 6 (3 per column) at the most.

AW C cells are out because they're not being mde anymore. As posted KD isn't the greatest place to deal with so crosses them out for me.
 
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Benson

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Not as good as 12AA's in series, but yeah, 12AA's in parralell would give you 4.2 volts fresh and roughly 23000 MaH. I don't don't how the SharkBuck is going to act when it goes into DD. I still like the FiveMega 12AA-3D battery holder scenario better.
I'm not sure what configuration you're discussing. 12AA in a 12p config could get 23000 mAh, if you use 1900 mAh cells, but that would only be 1.4V hot. 12AA in 3s4p would be 4.2V hot, but I'm pretty sure there's no 5700 mAh AA cells about, so you'd get more like 7600 mAh (using 1900 mAh cells).

Either way, a 1900 mAh AA has 1.9*1.2 = 2.23 Wh nominal, so you'd get 27 Wh or so.

Li-ions do get much better energy density; you can put 12x 14500s in a 12AA holder. At 900 mAh, this gets you 39 Wh.

You *could* also dual bore the tube and use 18650's, but you'd only be able to run 6 (3 per column) at the most.
For 2400 mAh, this would get you 52 Wh, but it's a little on the long side -- you'd need some sort of extension, I think. (But you can see bigger batteries are usually a bit better than lots of small ones.)

Another battery option: 5 half-D NiMH. No adapters or modifications needed in the flashlight. A shrink-wrapped stick of these is what's actually used in the mag charger, BTW. You will need to either charge the cells separately (with spacers in a regular charger), or make a series pack and use a special charger, but the great thing is they drop into a $20 off-the-shelf Mag, not a $100 or so pre-bored one, or whatever the costs & time to get your own host bored. Unfortunately, 1/2D is a niche size, and while there are some cells with truly impressive charge/discharge rates, there seem to be none optimized for capacity, so you get 24 Wh max.

Your 26650 suggestion would probably fit with a cutdown tailspring, but it'd be close (I'm not certain you wouldn't have to shorten the tailcap threads as well, or add a magring). If you do that, you get 54 Wh -- just ahead of the 18650 pack, and no extender or boring should be needed. But I'd be skeptical that KD is accurately rating the capacity there, so this may be somewhat behind.

Other options for a stock battery compartment, and keeping the voltage up so a buck driver doesn't lose regulation:
  • 6xA NiMH, 3800mAh, 27Wh. This won't fit with all "A" cells, but if you pick the right ones, it should. (Needs a special holder; haven't seen one.)
  • 9xAA(14500) NiMH, 20.5 Wh; Li-ion, 29 Wh. (In 3x3 holder)
  • 4xC NiMH, 6000mAh, 29Wh. Needs a sleeve, and redo the tailcap spring. (I think this might be my pick for this project; actually, the voltage here is close enough you could use a linear regulator, like 8xAMC7135.)

A couple reference points, since I started slinging numbers around:
  • A stock load, 3xD NiMH, 12000 mAh, gets you 43 Wh -- only some of the Li-ion configs can beat that for total energy, but its disadvantage is the low voltage, which means you have to use a full buck-boost driver, or tolerate low output through much of its runtime. A 3.6v Li-ion pack (1s?p) has the same trouble.
  • Runtime: My 4D P7 uses a 48Wh pack and gets 3 hours 20 minutes before it loses regulation, and maybe 45-60 minutes after that till it falls to half-brightness. My P7 is a 4D mag, running on 4xD NiMH 10000mAh (48Wh), and using 2 4xAMC1735 drivers, so this would scale directly for a 4xC NiMH pack using the same regulator, but you may get better or worse runtime depending on your driver's efficiency, and the drive current used. (e.g., the sandwich you linked has 9xAMC7135 for 3.15 A, instead of the 2.8 A I'm using now.) And using a linear regulator for 1 LED from any pack higher more than 5V is horribly inefficient!

As a side note, 4xD KOH do fine at first in my light, but drop out of regulation almost immediately because they can't maintain the voltage under load (too much internal resistance). So a 4xC config still depends on your driver's out-of-regulation behavior if you want to keep primaries as a backup option; since the AMC7135s act as a (nearly-)direct drive, it still works out OK.
 

jasonsmaglites

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I is lower voltage than J. A D***I emitter is more efficient than a D***J emitter. That is why you should use the I binned LED.
You could use 12AA batteries but you would have to get your 3D (I assume thats what your using) quad bored for a fee and 12AA would (on average) have less power than 3D NiMH cells.

lower vf does not always mean more efficent led. just lower drive voltage. some of the higher vf leds get brighter, but can draw more watts. its about proportionate though. the d bin is the luminous flux, or total perceved human visible light. they're both the same so lower vf COULD be more efficent, but doesnt mean it has to be. use to be a q5 vs a q4, the q4 vf's were lower when q5 bin came out, but q5 had better efficency. q5 was the "efficency" bin, not the output bin. plus sethbuilt did a review of the rebel 100 vs q5 l2d ce q5. the rebel with its low vf did better on single aa but q5 did better on 2aa. going with over 3.6volts like you're planning, a high vf wont hurt you in efficency i dont believe.
 

Greg G

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I'm not sure what configuration you're discussing. 12AA in a 12p config could get 23000 mAh, if you use 1900 mAh cells, but that would only be 1.4V hot. 12AA in 3s4p would be 4.2V hot, but I'm pretty sure there's no 5700 mAh AA cells about, so you'd get more like 7600 mAh (using 1900 mAh cells).

Foot in mouth disease! I should not post without fully thinking. Thanks for the correction.
:thumbsup:
 

StefanFS

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If you are using a 3D Mag my recommendation is to go with option a) with one slight change. I would use 4 C-size NiMH cells an a piece of plastic tube to support the cells and a cut down spring pushed down into a deanodized tailcap. That's an economical and very efficient solution that will get you good results over time. I use that in my remaining 3D with SSC P7. I'll post a pic on the tailcap later.

I'm planning to put a SSC P7 in a 3D Maglite; first time modding. I have a question, if you guys don't mind.

What kind of configuration (battery and driver) would have the longest run time whilst running at 3A? Li-Ion? NiMH?
I was thinking of something like:
a) a D***I emitter, this sandwiched driver (scroll down for the 3A one) and 3 NiMH D cells
b) a D***J emitter, this buck driver and 3 protected Li-Ion 32650s

Thanks in advance.
 

p13m4n

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Wow, you guys really know your stuff. But yeah, I was just thinking of 12 NiMH AAs in 3 4AA-D parallel converters. I can't seem to find a retailer that sells NiMH D cells and has decent shipping rates to Canada. Probably more expensive at first, but easier to charge and I can use them in other electronics. A versatile solution. However, I've been browsing around, and it looks like as long as I reduce resistance as much as possible (modding the tailcap, mostly), 3 NiMH D cells will work with a linear driver (i.e. 9 AMC7135). Would the 4AA-D converters add too much resistance to the circuit to work? Common sense tells me yes, but I can't be sure.

Should I decide to go with 3 10,000mAh NiMH D cells, how much runtime should I expect? Would there be voltage sag? With the D***I bin emitter and the AMC7135 linear regulator, I need input voltages of at least 3.37-3.62V (3.25-3.50V vf + 0.12V more to stay in regulation). Would I be better off with 4D?
 
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