which is more durable Titanium or Stainless steel LED lights...

I'm just curious between Stainless steel and titanium lights.

I have several Stainless steel and ordered one titanium ITP A3.

My Stainless steel TANK007 TK-506 is quite heavy but surely will be my toughest light so far.:sweat:

Steel, barely and with a penalty of higher weight.

Get a small equal sized block of each and set to work on both with the same grit sandpaper. Time yourself on how long it takes to kill a half inch of material. Try to keep the pressure used the same for each.
After the hand cramps and wasted time you'll never wonder again!

In that case a titanium bezel for a 6P/C2 > stainless steel bezel for the same.

Steel would be heavier - and hurt more, but the benefit of bit of extra weight I'm thinking would be offset by that same teeny bit of added weight.

More likely to land on bezel & heavier but not much stronger = less protection against impact??

I haven't done physics since high school but it shouldn't matter with such little weight anyways.

Ti has higher strength to weight ratio. Very subjective. I prefer Steel for durability. 2 lights of the same size made out of Ti or steel, should be the same durability, the Ti version should just be lighter weight, toughness should be the same.

Depends on what the ratio of other metals is in them.

Both Stainless Steel and titanium has many grades, so it depends on the grade. Poor stainless steel grade may rust over time or use in salt water. Haven't used titanium in sea water before, but I think they are more resistant to rust generally. Stainless steel is harder than titanium generally, but again, depends on the grade.

Ti won't rust. If you're planning to keep your light in the Atlantic Ocean for the next 50 years, Ti will be more durable, no contest.

sfca said:

In that case a titanium bezel for a 6P/C2 > stainless steel bezel for the same.

Steel would be heavier - and hurt more, but the benefit of bit of extra weight I'm thinking would be offset by that same teeny bit of added weight.

More likely to land on bezel & heavier but not much stronger = less protection against impact??

I haven't done physics since high school but it shouldn't matter with such little weight anyways.

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Heavier bezel will make no difference whatsoever. A feather will fall at the same speed as a hammer in a vacuum. It has been tried on the moon.

The Jetbeam M Ti is supposedly made from 6al/4v Ti alloy and is a very tough customer.

Cheapskate said:

Heavier bezel will make no difference whatsoever. A feather will fall at the same speed as a hammer in a vacuum. It has been tried on the moon.

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True that mass will make no difference to the velocity that it falls at, but due to F = ma and momentum = mv, the impact from the heavier object will be greater. Consider a 100 gm ball and a 5 kg ball of the same size, which one would you prefer to have dropped on your foot?

That said, in this context regarding SS and Ti bezels, I'm pretty sure the difference will be negligible.

souptree said:

Ti won't rust. If you're planning to keep your light in the Atlantic Ocean for the next 50 years, Ti will be more durable, no contest.

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I think good SS will not rust either (thats one of the differences with just plain steel), but as I am not an expert I am not sure 100%. I just remember some pics of a barbolight that were lost a few meters deep in the sea and the SS ring was still pristine after several months. In fact my father has some SS "junk" just "stored" in the backyard that got years of rain over them (and here it rains considerably) and not a single trace of rust either.

Given a choice between Alum, Titanium, and Stainless Steel. I would purchase the S.S. light everytime. I have a LD01 S.S. light on my keychain and I am just amazed with how well it is holding up. TI and Alum doesn't compare in my opinion. In fact I would never purchase another TI light unless it was going to be a shelf queen. The ones I have purchased and used look terrible within a couple of weeks. Scratches very easily. Titanium is suppose to be hard but I think the alloys light manufacturers have been using is actually on the soft side. Now having said the above, I've never owned a McGizmo so I can't comment on his, and I would actually like to try one someday.

Bill

vali said:

I think good SS will not rust either (thats one of the differences with just plain steel), but as I am not an expert I am not sure 100%. I just remember some pics of a barbolight that were lost a few meters deep in the sea and the SS ring was still pristine after several months. In fact my father has some SS "junk" just "stored" in the backyard that got years of rain over them (and here it rains considerably) and not a single trace of rust either.

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All iron will rust -- the chrome content of stainless just makes it rust more slowly.

Hitthespot said:

Given a choice between Alum, Titanium, and Stainless Steel. I would purchase the S.S. light everytime. I have a LD01 S.S. light on my keychain and I am just amazed with how well it is holding up. TI and Alum doesn't compare in my opinion. In fact I would never purchase another TI light unless it was going to be a shelf queen. The ones I have purchased and used look terrible within a couple of weeks. Scratches very easily. Titanium is suppose to be hard but I think the alloys light manufacturers have been using is actually on the soft side. Now having said the above, I've never owned a McGizmo so I can't comment on his, and I would actually like to try one someday.

Bill

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Titanium doesn't self-polish like steel does. However, the scratches on the titanium will never go deeper than the surface, so if you just put up with the break-in process, eventually it will have a nice brushed finish.

More likely the problem is whatever titanium lights you've bought were polished instead of brushed or raw-machined to begin with, so the break-in process takes that much longer and is that much more obvious at first. There's a reason Don doesn't polish the lights he sells.

vali said:

I think good SS will not rust either (thats one of the differences with just plain steel), but as I am not an expert I am not sure 100%. I just remember some pics of a barbolight that were lost a few meters deep in the sea and the SS ring was still pristine after several months. In fact my father has some SS "junk" just "stored" in the backyard that got years of rain over them (and here it rains considerably) and not a single trace of rust either.

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There are a lot of different grades of SS and Titanium out there. With very different alloy and heat treat, there is always some compromise between a range of material properties depending on the intended use, such as hardness, strength, machinability, workability, weldability, corrosion resistance, electrical/thermal properties... (it goes on and on).

It's hard to justify any grade as simply "better" than another grade, as an engineer is always going to be making compromises between the different properties, as well as the price point. The designation "stainless" just means steel with a content of over 10% chromium, and not much else.

That being said, some grades of stainless are much more stainless than others. 316 stainless for example contains a high percentage of nickel and chromium, and is extremely difficult to rust, and will stand up fine to seawater. 316 also suffers from work hardening during machining and is not heat treatable to be as tough as other alloys. As a counterexample, a lot of pocket knives use 440C or similar stainless alloys, which can be treated to a very high hardness, but will rust noticeably when exposed to salt water or unfriendly environments.

In terms of the toughest material for a flashlight (ti vs ss), there is definitely a huge range. Most titanium grades have a good hardness that will beat softer steels, but in the end the a good heat-treated stainless steel can easily win in terms of hardness and wear resistance, and will never display any signs of rust in normal use. Neither material really has great thermal properties in general, but titanium will always win in the weight contest as well as the coolness factor.

I seriously doubt the electronics outlast any metal flashlight, be it stainless, titanium or even aluminum, unless you are REALLY tough on your lights, in which case the electronics will likely fail first anyways.

That being said, titanium is harder than steel. Harder metals actually break easier. For example, glass is one of the hardest components in our every day life, but look at how it breaks. Steel is softer, so will dent more easily from impact, but is not as prone to breaking in pieces. (you do need an exagerated force, however, to break good titanium)

My conclusion is, it really depends on the use. On impact, one might difform (dent), while the other will take it until it cracks (read real-heavy abuse you should use a hammer for, not a flashlight). Corrosion-wise, titanium would outlast stainless.

Cataract said:

I seriously doubt the electronics outlast any metal flashlight, be it stainless, titanium or even aluminum, unless you are REALLY tough on your lights, in which case the electronics will likely fail first anyways.

That being said, titanium is harder than steel. Harder metals actually break easier. For example, glass is one of the hardest components in our every day life, but look at how it breaks. Steel is softer, so will dent more easily from impact, but is not as prone to breaking in pieces. (you do need an exagerated force, however, to break good titanium)

My conclusion is, it really depends on the use. On impact, one might difform (dent), while the other will take it until it cracks (read real-heavy abuse you should use a hammer for, not a flashlight). Corrosion-wise, titanium would outlast stainless.

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I haven't seen that Titanium Alloys are harder than all steel alloys. Most hard titanium alloys worth having for their hardness are in the Rockwell C scale at around 45. Most of the better steels are in the 55 to 62 C scale hardness range. There are many steel alloys and some of the stainless steels aren't all that hard. the ones they use for SS knife blades are very hard and typically better than 55 on the C scale.

Dentability is also a function of total wall thicknesses. Titanium being more expensive they are definitely not going to be overly generous with it. to me it would totally suck to have an expensive Ti light that dents when it hits the ground (even when it falls at the exact same speed as a feather on the moon) whereas the SS might not.

Personally I am not wasting my money on a tightanium flashlight as its counterproductive to the number one and 2 uses of thermal transfer and electrical conductivity to that of Aluminum. The bigger and more powerful lights especially. But my guess is this debate will go on and on for at least 3 more pages.

fyrstormer said:

the scratches on the titanium will never go deeper than the surface,

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I've heard this comment more than once and I'm not sure what this means? Is the surface softer for some reason? Why would the surface scratch any easier than say 1/64 of an inch down? As was said well by MrGman, I also believe the Titanium alloys the light industry uses is much softer than at least the S.S. lights I've seen.

Now I'm sure there are other reasons for using Titanium than just its hardness or looks. Like effective use in or around Saltwater. There may be thermal and weight reasons also, I'm no expert for sure. I only know I like tuff tools and S.S. in my opinion is the superior material for tuff use.

Where's Don when you need him? I'm sure he can tell me I'm full of myself. lol

Bill

Lets not forget about material thickness because a thin walled Ti or SS light will deform easier than one of greater thickness. There are so many variables that one easy answer isn't easily arrived at IMHO.

The assumption that Ti lights will have thin wall thicknesses because of the high cost of Ti, and will therefore be likely to be dentable/deformable, is questionable.

This previous thread went into the pros and cons of Ti for flashlights quite a bit:https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140414&highlight=titanium+electrical

Cheapskate said:

The assumption that Ti lights will have thin wall thicknesses because of the high cost of Ti, and will therefore be likely to be dentable/deformable, is questionable.

This previous thread went into the pros and cons of Ti for flashlights quite a bit:https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140414&highlight=titanium+electrical

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Its not an assumption that some people have already complained that they have "dented" their Titanium flashlights by dropping them. Certainly the walls could not have been all that thick that an object dropping and building up enough momentum from its own mass times good ole gravitational acceleration of our favorite planet (star trek fans don't answer that with Riza okay) caused it to deform. Had it been as thick as the walls of say my Malkoff MD2 I doubt that it could have or would have dented from a mere "drop". Surface scratching not relevant to that issue.

As to scratch resistance and corrosion resistance. hard anodize level III certainly beats SS or Titanium hands down. Cerakote is even better and still cheaper than equivalent sized and featured flashlights of Titanium.