Surefire Overview

Hi all,

I've been debating between posting one message or multiple messages. I thing it may be best to post multiple messages, as it may be easier for others to search, so you may see several similar messages under related subjects.

**MODS: I'll stop here, but perhaps it would be beneficial to do this for every major manufacturer? Perhaps one person could "own" each manufacturer, and update it on occasion?

I've been wandering the forums off and on for a few years, and there's something that has always been highly annoying. With people constantly referring to particular lights, from time to time, I check out the manufacturer's site to see what the company is about, and what they have in their product lines.

Unfortunately, I constantly run into the same problem. There seems to be NO overview of the models. Take Surefire, for instance. There's 6P, A, C, G, L, M, T, U, V, and Z series. There must be a difference between the different series, or they would just change the model numbers.

And then, of course, once you pick a series, you can't even see an overview of the differences between the different lights in a particular series. Why do I have to view the individual pages for the E1B, E1E, E1L, E2D, E2E, E2L, and E2L AA, to find out what the differences are? It gets highly frustrating, and annoying.

Could some kind, knowledgable person please give an overview of what the differences are between the different lines, at least? I would find it helpful (and hopefully others might too).

Regards,
Norman

Well Norman, I solved one of your dilemmas, I closed one of your threads. Not appropriate to double post, which in effect you are doing even though you changed the name of the flashlight. Your topic really seems to be the lack of overview on many flashlight brands. If there is a consensus from this discussion that that is so then maybe some threads can be initiated to discuss overviews of different flashlight brands, but let's start out slow here.

Bill

Well, since you asked about the E1B, E1E, E1L, E2D, E2E, E2L, and E2L AA, I'll go ahead and summarize the differences:

E1B: 1x123, LED, 2 modes, high first, reversible clip, smooth body, higher output than E1L
E1E: 1x123, incandescent, 1 mode, lower output than E1L
E1L: 1x123, LED, 2 modes, low first, lower output than E1B
E2D: 2x123, incandescent, 1 mode, crenellated bezel and tailcap, tailstands, same output as E2E
E2E: 2x123, incandescent, 1 mode, higher output than E1E
E2L: 2x123, LED, 2 modes, low first, higher output than E1L
E2L-AA: 2xAA, LED, 2 modes, low first, similar output to E2L
E2DL: 2x123, LED, 2 modes, high first, crenellated bezel and tailcap, tailstands, higher output than E1B

The L1 and LX2 are essentially twisty versions of the E1L and E2DL besides a different body shape. They are sometimes but not always considered preferable because you can more easily select the output you want rather than toggling between two levels: the further you tighten the tailcap, the brighter it gets (going from off-> low-> high) and providing easy momentary access to both (likewise, the harder you push, the brighter).

Ask more specific questions for more specific answers. It is a lot of work to provide more details than that.

Cheers.

Don't flame me, but I've never understood the intense following behind SureFire. The output is pretty low compared to other lights using the same power. Is it just because of extreme durability?

aimxplode said:

Don't flame me, but I've never understood the intense following behind SureFire. The output is pretty low compared to other lights using the same power. Is it just because of extreme durability?

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Some say, the first two fish to crawl out of the ocean got into a flame-war over Surefire vs. Other-Brands.

Point being, this is one of the oldest argument starters on the forums and nothing good ever comes of it. Just chalk it up to brand loyalty and call it a day.

Norman, I always looked at Surefire's lights like this.
E= Executive (easy to conceal especially with formal attires)
G= General
P= Personal (more expensive than the G and made with aluminum not Nitrolon)
M= Military
Z, C= More LEO friendly than the G or P
A= Aviator (2 different colors)
That's for the major series. The numbers next to them are the number of cells and the next letters are for attachments (i.e. D=defense L=LED) or just to set them apart from the others.

For Fenix:
TA = Tactical
TK = Tank (very hard)
PD = small CR123 lights
LD = Like PD only using AA and AAA
E = Executive (easy to conceal though I know some in there aren't)

Hope this helps.:welcome:

Great thread idea. It does take way more digging than it should to find out this kind of information.

aimxplode said:

Don't flame me, but I've never understood the intense following behind SureFire. The output is pretty low compared to other lights using the same power. Is it just because of extreme durability?

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Typically Surefire under-rates their lights. It was recently measured in another thread that the incandescent 6P rated at 60 lumens is actually over 100 lumens. Conversely, many other popular brands on the forums tend to over-rate the output of their lights.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in spec sheets. There is no perfect standard to compare lights across manufacturers by; you should only use the manufacturer provided specs to compare lights within a single manufacturer's lineup. Besides that, spec sheets only tell you a very small subset of information about the actual light, the kind that is measurable and presented as a single objective number, and not many other details like beam distribution, beam quality, reliability, build quality, etc, etc.

The best way to find out about lights you're interested in is to ask about them specifically here (or look for reviews already posted) or to meet up with other CPFers in your area.

Arcus Diabolus said:

Norman, I always looked at Surefire's lights like this.
E= Executive (easy to conceal especially with formal attires)
G= General
P= Personal (more expensive than the G and made with aluminum not Nitrolon)
M= Military
Z, C= More LEO friendly than the G or P
A= Aviator (2 different colors)
That's for the major series. The numbers next to them are the number of cells and the next letters are for attachments (i.e. D=defense L=LED) or just to set them apart from the others.

For Fenix:
TA = Tactical
TK = Tank (very hard)
PD = small CR123 lights
LD = Like PD only using AA and AAA
E = Executive (easy to conceal though I know some in there aren't)

Hope this helps.:welcome:

Click to expand...

Actually, it does. Looking at some of the prices, I was thinking that E stood for Expensive, and things went up from there.

In general, I'm not looking to purchase yet, but honestly, many of these lights don't make a whole lot of sense, as I don't quite understand the relative advantages or differences of one series over another.

About the only things I did notice were a specific line of polycarbonate Surefires and that Fenix seemed to separate many of their lights based on battery size (except for the TK series)

I'm just trying to get a basic understanding before I even attempt to figure out if I can afford any of these. (although I did see a Terralux Lightstar 220 for $20 -posted about that elsewhere).

Is this what you're looking for?

A= Aviator Series; Designed with dual color/output options designed specifically for pilots.
G= More affordable Nitrolon 2 and 3 cell versions of the 2 and 3 cell 6P/9P. 1" body, 1.25" bezel for most models (D-FYL Models use the KX3, 1.36" Bezel)
C= Centurion; Kinda of a spin-off of the "M" (Millenium) Series, as the original M2 was the "M2 Centurion", but, essentially the C Series are Combat grip lights with combat grip and clips, avail. in black or HA-Nat. 1.25" bezel, body dia varies.
P= Basic 2 and 3 cell flashlights. Just a flashlight...nothing exrta. 1" Body/1.25" Bezel.
L= Started out as there only dedicated LED lights (Digital Lumamax), but now it's a bit more confusing since there whole line swallowed up LED's. Hence the reason, these models are slowing dying off. They used to be available in bigger modied lights (L6/L7), but now are pretty much limited to E-Series sized bodies. They all come with clips now.
M= Millenium Series: These are all designed for primarily Military and Police. The incan models will all have a shock isolated bezel, and they are all HA-Nat., and also include a second O-ring at the bezel (IIRC). These all also ship with both the Low Output and High Output bulbs (i.e. an M2 will ship with a P60 and a P61, where as the C2 only ships with a P60. These also cross over to their weaponlight Millenium Series models. Body dai. typically 1" with bezels ranging from 1.36" to 2.5" (M1 IR Illuminator not included)
Z= Combat grip style body with no clip. available in only Type-II Black. 1.25" non-shock isolated bezels. Body diamters are 1" and .8"
E= Slim, non-obtrusive, non-tactical looking (except the E2D). Designed for casual/civilian carry. Originally all incan, they are all available in LED models now. All E-series lights are clipped, and bodies are .8" with 1" Bezels.

whats the e2dled rated at, it says 200 lumens.

i actually came here to see what was up with surefire, the e2d led was a good price when i bought it, 150 bucks. now it seems like they are jacking up their prices (190 bucks) instead of stepping their game up.

im actually looking for another e2d led without the strike bezel.

aimxplode said:

Don't flame me, but I've never understood the intense following behind SureFire. The output is pretty low compared to other lights using the same power. Is it just because of extreme durability?

Click to expand...

My Sig Line is the best answer...Of an old never ending arguement.

aimxplode said:

Don't flame me, but I've never understood the intense following behind SureFire. The output is pretty low compared to other lights using the same power. Is it just because of extreme durability?

Click to expand...

You're not alone in that, and if "durability" means reliability, not a lot better or worse than lots of other lights out there, just look at all the threads in these forums. My thinking is (1) Surefire set the standard for bulb size, so it holds an "icon" card there. (2) 'Anything that costs that much must be good mentality', sort of the Cadillac of lights historically. (3) Large following from the days when it was almost the only light that was suitable for LEOs and military, when its primary competition was Maglite.

And yes, there is more to a light than it's output, just like there is more to a car than driving it.

den9 said:

whats the e2dled rated at, it says 200 lumens.

i actually came here to see what was up with surefire, the e2d led was a good price when i bought it, 150 bucks. now it seems like they are jacking up their prices (190 bucks) instead of stepping their game up.

im actually looking for another e2d led without the strike bezel.

Click to expand...

The "Defender" in it's name is referring to the Strike Bezel and crenelated tailcap.

To get one without the strike bezel you would have to buy a new bezel ie. the KX2-HA-BK

DimeRazorback said:

The "Defender" in it's name is referring to the Strike Bezel and crenelated tailcap.

To get one without the strike bezel you would have to buy a new bezel ie. the KX2-HA-BK

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Or cut off the teeth, which I've seen done here before.

DimeRazorback said:

The "Defender" in it's name is referring to the Strike Bezel and crenelated tailcap.

To get one without the strike bezel you would have to buy a new bezel ie. the KX2-HA-BK

Click to expand...

One of the advantages of Surefire seems to be it's ability to interchange parts. Unfortunately, it makes it hard to understand the different lines, as people have swapped parts on the basic light.

carrot said:

Or cut off the teeth, which I've seen done here before.

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LOL! or maybe use a grinder?

KX2 is only rated at 60L/3L(per SF) while the KX2C is rated at 200L(one mode). So basically, the KX2C is an un-crenulated, one mode E2DL head.

Let's say your safety or even your life depended on a flashlight. Before very long you would save up and buy a Surefire, at least if you were on the same continent as the factory. Once they get overseas they seem to lose some value, in terms of what models and versions you can actually obtain, while gaining significantly in price.

seattlite said:

KX2 is only rated at 60L/3L(per SF) while the KX2C is rated at 200L(one mode). So basically, the KX2C is an un-crenulated, one mode E2DL head.

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Woops!

I forgot the "C"!

You are correct mate, I was referring to the KX2C!

I realize that the KX2 was made for the E2L Outdoorsman and as an upgrade to the E2E, but why not just put the same driver/LED in the KX2 as what's in the E2DL? The KX2C was made for M600 weaponlight, thus the single level. A KX2C dual level head would be the perfect EDC head...legoable(one or 2 cells), 2 levels, great hotspot/throw....perfect.