warm drop in for caving?

I was looking at the M91W, but of course it is out of stock.......are there any other good quality warm drop ins (im using a 9P)? Also, is Malkoff the only guy around making drop ins in the USA? I might be looking for something that is too bright, I was also considering an M61W in the same 9P host.......does anyone else cave and if so what is your experience with necessary lumens and or tint? Thanks.

For caving specifically I would be looking at a malkoff M61WLL, a M91W is way too bright for caving and has a short runtime to boot. The M61WLL will have more than enough brightness in a dark cave and will offer you very good runtime as well. If you think you might need more light then go for the M61WL.

I'm not aware of any other dropins for surefire's made in the usa. If there is none will match the quality and performence of gene malkoff's products, otherwise I would have heard about them. If I was caving and my life depended on my light, I would choose a surefire 9P with malkoff M61WLL.

Nailbender is a custom builder of drop-ins here in the states..

A second vote for the M61WLL. Not that I've been in anyting but 'tourist' caves, but I've used the M61WLL outdoors abit, and in complete darkness. it will probably be brighter than you need, much of the time, but it's a very nice beam, with a good blend of throw with useful spill.

If you want warm like an incandescent Craig over at illumination supply had Gene (Malkoff) make some Hi CRI M61s - very warm tint, they went over very well and there was alot of interest in a L and an LL version http://illuminationsupply.com/m61hcrill-p-66.html - useful runtime on 2 cr123s is 16 hours and it will take up to 9 v (3.4v to 9v) or 3 CR123s.

I don't cave and I have a hi/lo ring on my MD2s, as well as using rechargeable Li-ions so I bought the full power Hi CRI M61s. Fantastic, the first really hi CRI LED I have that is truly bright.

Incidentally since Craig had Gene make these for him he is the exclusive seller, Craig is CSSHIH on CPF http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...61HCRI-(90-)-Exclusive-at-Illumination-Supply!

A 9P with M61WLL and a spares carrier with 6 extra cells would produce light for a long time underground, and be a rock solid reliable light to boot.

Thanks for all the advice, I ended up ordering an M61W. Maybe to bright, but I always tend to overbuy. If it's too bright, I guess I'll just buy another light! I don't get how this happened, I was looking for a good flashlight for work and now I'm on this forum everyday.............and spending too much money.........

No problem on the advice, that's why were all here I just ended up trading a M61W earlier, it's a very bright dropin, I don't know what kind of caving you will be doing but your M61W more than likely will be blinding and excessively bright in a small, pitch black enviroment. They also run hot so you'll have to be careful on extended runs, depending on the temperture you may want to provide the light with a cool down period if you find the bezel getting too hot. A M61WL would have provided MORE than enough light for your needs and it's runtime, which is extremely important during caving, would have been much longer than the M61W, requiring less batteries and battery changes, and would also run much cooler. I would trust running a M61WL or LL for many hours nonstop and never give a second though about heat buildup, not so with the full bore M61W. In any case I think you will enjoy your new malkoff, post back and let us know what you think after some usage

As luck would have it, the site where I ordered my M61W from will not have them in stock until the 17th of August. I told them to cancel my order. I'm now debating on whether to order another M61W or the M61HCRIL....................

Many people here poopoo the idea but if you're going with a low level light caving light I would suggest a direct drive resistored design. The reason is reliability. It may have no regulation but it'll stay on when others won't namely if the light was flooded with water.

I'm sure Nailbender would be glad to whip up such a board as it's really just a resistor connected to the positive and perhaps potted for further water, impact resistance, and thermal conductivity.

qwertyydude said:

Many people here poopoo the idea but if you're going with a low level light caving light I would suggest a direct drive resistored design. The reason is reliability. It may have no regulation but it'll stay on when others won't namely if the light was flooded with water.

I'm sure Nailbender would be glad to whip up such a board as it's really just a resistor connected to the positive and perhaps potted for further water, impact resistance, and thermal conductivity.

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What direct drive resistored drop in would you suggest? Malkoff dropins are the toughest most reliable dropins on the planet that money can buy. Not sure why you are suggesting this type of dropin, as regulation would have no effect on a light flooded in water as long as it's water tight and no water is leaking in, not to mention that almost all up to date high quality drop ins are regulated. I'm not sure I fully understand your "if the light was flooded with water" comment.

Stroked, The malkoff M61WL HCRI would be a good choice, lots more runtime than a M61W and will still provide more than enough light for you needs as I have already mentioned before.

Although not a drop-in, of course, I think that the HDS lights were originally designed for caving and have been available with High-CRI emitters.

No personal caving experience here, but the Malkoff drop-ins seem overbuilt by design and very robust. I have a M61HCRI in a stock Surefire C2 host, which is probably the toughest light I own.

ebow86 said:

What direct drive resistored drop in would you suggest? Malkoff dropins are the toughest most reliable dropins on the planet that money can buy. Not sure why you are suggesting this type of dropin, as regulation would have no effect on a light flooded in water as long as it's water tight and no water is leaking in, not to mention that almost all up to date high quality drop ins are regulated. I'm not sure I fully understand your "if the light was flooded with water" comment.

Stroked, The malkoff M61WL HCRI would be a good choice, lots more runtime than a M61W and will still provide more than enough light for you needs as I have already mentioned before.

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Imagine worst case scenario. What happens if your lights seals become compromised? Or the front lens is shattered? Even with potting, you're not guaranteed 100% waterproofing in the pill's electronics. Water ingress can still render most transistorized circuits ineffective. I know for a fact that a resistored led will run submerged even without potting.

As for the regulation part, if you're using 18650 or single cell li-ion in general, once you get below the vf of the led plus the driver overhead you'll be running direct drive anyways, so you'll still have declining output. It's actually a good thing because you know when you're battery is dying instead of it immediately cutting out when voltage protection kicks in.

qwertyydude said:

Imagine worst case scenario. What happens if your lights seals become compromised? Or the front lens is shattered? Even with potting, you're not guaranteed 100% waterproofing in the pill's electronics. Water ingress can still render most transistorized circuits ineffective. I know for a fact that a resistored led will run submerged even without potting.

As for the regulation part, if you're using 18650 or single cell li-ion in general, once you get below the vf of the led plus the driver overhead you'll be running direct drive anyways, so you'll still have declining output. It's actually a good thing because you know when you're battery is dying instead of it immediately cutting out when voltage protection kicks in.

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I still don't understand, what kind of flashlight with an LED drop in, regardless of whether it's direct drive or regulated, resistored or not, could operate if the seal's or lens has been comprimosed and water is flooding in? Could you point out of an example of a drop in you would recommend? Also, even if a resistored LED could function in a flashlight full of water wouldn't the batteries short out?

Believe it or not those cheapo 3xAAA lights barring mechanical damage can run underwater completely flooded. I can't point out a specific drop-in because it's not made. But just because it's not made and on the market does not mean it doesn't have a use. But like I said Nailbender could easily make one for you. I suppose the battery could short out if it had a protection circuit, but I generally would run unprotected batteries if anything had to be mission critical. Protected batteries can fail, the positive sense lead can break, the board could malfunction if it gets flooded. But unless you were swimming in liquid mercury the battery itself could actually short out. Try it yourself get a cheapy 3xAAA 99 cent flashlight and run it underwater and get a cheap non water-proof regulated light and see which one survives the flooding. I've done it myself already before. I was left with one perfectly functioning cheapo light and one paperweight.