Where are the Super Long-Running P60 Drop-ins?

I remain perplexed that there seems to be no niche in the Surefire-style drop-in market for battery-mizer units. I love a super-bright light as much as the next flash-a-holic, but many of my lights are backups, emergency kit lights, camping tools, etc--and when friends ask me for advice on a light, that's often what they want, too. In any of these situations, I'd like to have a low level of light for as long as possible.

With the current technology, it should be fairly easy to build a drop-in that will give you 15-30 lumens for 24-48 hours.

Maybe my problem is that I'm a single level guy (I love my L1 and Lx2, but since I seldom flash on a light for more than a few seconds at a time, multi-tap lights drive me CRAZY!). For camping or emergency use, I don't want a multi-level light with a high-drain blinding level on it. I want a solid, dependable light with a long runtime--preferably with a very nice, regulated, high-CRI beam.

I'm currently using Malkoff M61LL units in my back-up lights. These aren't my ideal, though. They are too bright, and sacrifice runtime.

My ideal would be a unit that gave me 15-20 lumens (single level) for 30-40 hours (with as long a regulated runtime as possible), had neutral color rendition and would run from 3v-9v--AND would fit in a Surefire SC1 spares carrier. I'd love to be able to carry a loaded SC1 that would let me pop out my 900 lumen torchlab dropin and convert my blinding "tactical" light to an emergency light that will last me for a week of runtime.

I imagine I could have Nailbender or someone build me something that would be close--but it wouldn't fit my spares-carrier.

Am I alone in this? Doesn't anyone else want to use our advances in emitters, drivers, and batteries to get incredible runtime...and not just incredible brightness?

theres the m61lll now,,pretty low output. i think 50 lumens??

I have not seen the LLL! It's not on Gene's site, is it?

It won't fit in my SC1s, but that's getting closer to my ideal.

Oveready's got 'em.

I realize that you said "single level" light, and I'm now going to discuss a 2-level light, but it might interest you.
The Elzetta with the Hi/Lo tailswitch can be left on the Lo setting at all times if you wish, and still have the forward clicky operation for momentary on or constant on, unaffected.
So, for all intents and purposes, you could act as if that's the only setting it has.
With the M60 that came in it, the Lo setting is about 15-20 lumens.
With a 2 cell Elzetta, it runs about 40 hours on Lo.
With a 3 cell Elzetta, it runs about 60 hours on Lo.

That's pretty close to what you say you want.

I'd like a HCRI XP-G dropin, with all but one of the AMC7135's removed. That way Max mode is 350mA, Low mode would be miniscule.

The Elzetta hi/low tail switch seems like about the perfect solution.
All lights with removable tail caps should have this basic feature. Switch out tail cap to change basic function.
Elzetta got it right. It would be an understandable shame if others were prevented from offering such common sense solutions due to patent law. Maybe it's a non issue and maybe there is a reasonable and economical licencing solution, but any good tail capped light should be able to be switched around this way.

I can vouch for the M61LLL. 40-ish lumens on 2x123 primaries, and during discussion with Gene, his guesstimate was 25 or so hours in regulation, with the slow taper we know and love... It works great on 1xRCR as well, and is a beautiful 5-10 lumens on one primary. Super versatility of cells used, it likes 2xAA as well. Oh, and it's nice in the MD2 with hi/low ring, too. I haven't done a runtime test yet, maybe this weekend...

the M61LLL was a specially requested item i think.
if you give Gene a call he might even oblige to make you a M61W LLLL.

I love the M61WLL, more than enough lumens and all night runtimes.
ive set up my family with nothing but malkoffs/surefires. best option for your non-flashaholic loved ones i feel.
simple, reliable, interchangeable.

Or get a high/low ring for the MD2.

The other option is the E2L or E1L.

Solarforce's 3 mode XP-G is said to give 30 hours in low mode - 10% or around 30 lumens...

yifu said:

This market will simply not dissappear.

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The P60 is actually two markets: 1) the P60 format and a 2) universal drop in format.

This makes for two questions: 1) do people still want P60 and 2) do people still want hosts and drop ins? One is a quick way to update outdated setups. The other is a rich, modular ecosystem.

I can see no flashlight market in which hosts and drop ins don't play a part. So the only question is whether another drop in format would make the the P60 format obsolete.

mvyrmnd said:

I'd like a HCRI XP-G dropin, with all but one of the AMC7135's removed. That way Max mode is 350mA, Low mode would be miniscule.

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I have a similar setup. The problem is it doesn't work efficient with 2 Cr123s. This is a NoGo for an emergency flashlight! If You want to run a XP-G R5 with 25 Lumen, You need something around 70mA. A linear regulator like the 7135 pulls the same current that is delivered to the LED out of the batteries. This works fine with one LiIon cell and will give You 30-40 hours of regulated runtime out of one 18650, but only 20 hours of runtime out of two Cr123s. A Malkoff M61LLL gives You the same runtime out of 2 Cr123s with 35-50 lumen, depending on the tint.
At the moment, the M61LLL in cool, neutral or warm seems to be the best solution. If somebody convinces Gene to build a M61LLLL or someone develops an efficient driver with one low level and a broad input voltage range, we will have better options.
Developing a one level driver, which works efficient from 2.8 to six volts doesn't seem too complicated for me. Manufacturing a small number will be rather expensive, If You don't produce and sell the same driver with other current levels. I guess Gene will produce drop-ins with every desired output, if some reseller takes the risk and buys the whole batch. I presume he designed the M61LLLs on Overeadys request, since they are only offered at oveready.

Here's one...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-yer-own-quot-Battery-Vampire-quot-with-a-P60

+

M61LLL & a resistored 2-stage switch would be a great way to go.

...I truly don't believe P60 drop-ins & hosts will ever be out of the picture, simply impossible to become obsolete.

//


btw, the rare 4SD has a super long runtime on its lowest setting,..easily 2~3 days strait on 18650

Thanks for your advice Brasso.

I'm specifically thinking of an interchangable option for all those power lights running on P60 drop-ins. I agree that a second, long-running light would also be an option--one that most of us practice, I think.

You guys may be right about your two-stage switch advice. Maybe I need to pack a McGizmo two-stage switch (I'm glad I bought a few of these years ago) in my emergency kit instead of a spare drop-in.

I will definitely get an M60LLL (that naming convention makes me chuckle--it's a bit like baseball's "back-to-back-to-back" homeruns). I may have to see if I can modify my spares carrier to hold it. Currently I'm carrying a Surefire P60L (which gave me around 7-8hours runtime in my one test) because it fits.

I tried the 2 stage switch approach with my collection of Malkoff dropins using an LX2 and a VME head. The M60 and M61 worked as expected. The M60L and M61L gave only a very low output on the low stage. The M61LLL would not light on the low stage at all. All tests were done with 2 fresh Surefire 123 cells. I have serious doubts that an M61LLL will light on the low stage of an LX2 switch. Switches with a lower resistor value may allow the M61LL or M61LLL to light.

As far as I know, tints go off by the drop in the current so manufacturers use PWM to keep a white led white and dim. The easiest method for long runtime lights seems to build a custom p60 dropin with only one AMC7135 driver, at 350mA. But I haven't done one yet and don't know if it would work ok with a XP-g r5 without getting that famous 4 sevens green tint. Could you please recommend a safe min for known emitters and tints?

mbw_151 said:

I tried the 2 stage switch approach with my collection of Malkoff dropins using an LX2 and a VME head. The M60 and M61 worked as expected. The M60L and M61L gave only a very low output on the low stage. The M61LLL would not light on the low stage at all. All tests were done with 2 fresh Surefire 123 cells. I have serious doubts that an M61LLL will light on the low stage of an LX2 switch. Switches with a lower resistor value may allow the M61LL or M61LLL to light.

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Doesn't the LX2 have a resistor in the tail that triggers a regulated low mode in the stock head? I wonder if you could swap it.

btw, I think the Malkoff MD2 with hi/lo ring would be good for the OP's purpose with CR123As or 2xLi-ion.
My M60WLF and M61N both pull the same current on low, which is as it should be. ~20mA for an 18650, ~70mA on 2xLi-ion.
I don't have a comparable light for the M61N, but on 2xLi-ion, the M60WLF on low is similar in output to the Zebralight SC51fw's 25 lumen M1 mode. On an 18650 it's putting out less than the SC51fw's 6.5 lumen M2 mode, but should have at least quadruple the runtime.
When I realized how long the low was going to run on an 18650, I immediately ordered another MD2 with hi/lo ring for the M60WLF, since it's my "emergency" light, and the low is plenty for use in a dark house. Oh, and the M61N low mode on 18650 looks like a CMG Ultra-G with narrower spill, and a lot better tint. Not bad!