Are portable EDC flashlights a good investment?
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Probably not. Commercial lights value is based solely on the technology inside them. Once that's obsolete, they will be too.
Custom lights, modified lights and the rare, occasional "classic" production lights are more likely to retain their value to collectors, but that market is very small.
Custom lights, modified lights and the rare, occasional "classic" production lights are more likely to retain their value to collectors, but that market is very small.
AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
More like a computer than a gun for holding value over time.
mcnair55
Flashlight Enthusiast
Not a chance,well and truly worthless.Look around other electronic toys.I have digi cams here which cost me hundreds,no value anymore,computers worth nothing.
Lights will advance so much the older ones will be bought by a true collector only and will have no value at all to anyone else.
Do not let anyone kid you it will be different,it really will not.
Lights will advance so much the older ones will be bought by a true collector only and will have no value at all to anyone else.
Do not let anyone kid you it will be different,it really will not.
There are a select few. The problem is picking them out. And the cost of upgrading them of possible added in makes it even less. IE some rare Leef or Arc products. They are more custom I guess, but reasonable and hold their value. But your better off buying lottery tickets unless you luck into a super buy. Like the 7c mag at a fleamarket for $5 or a bulk lot of surefires or something.
Thanks for the opinion and perspective, it's exactly what i was wondering, are good brand flashlights really like electronics, do they evolve that fast? The Fenix LD01 as an exemple, lots of people love it, will it be obsolete as fast as let's say an iphone that has a new model every year?
Perhaps not quite as fast as the computer/smartphone industry, but fast. Not to say they won't be perfectly useful in 5 yrs, but I think it's more like flashlights are probably cheap enough, and useful enough, so that you'll just want to buy the latest and greatest.
Except if TSHTF... then more like a gun.
Except if TSHTF... then more like a gun.
Think about it this way. The cutting edge flashlight built by a smaller shop (Olight, Fenix, Streamlight) today will be dim in comparison to lights sold in walmart in 15 years. My LD10/LD20 I started with back in february 2009 pales in comparison to the latest 2AA minimag. That being said, the light still puts out plenty of light, and I'll probably never get rid of it, rather it will be retired to the boat glove box or given to my son. Still a great light, but not in the same league as newer options.
mcnair55
Flashlight Enthusiast
Not sure about the US&A but over here lights from Fenix etc are mainly only available from the mail order/on line stores.Slowly things are changing, now you can go into the big shed stores and pick a mickey mouse no name light up that are 100 times better than those useless Maglites that many stores still sell.
Once the names get the marketing sorted and Joe Public realizes there is better out there the gadget market for lights will explode.
Led Lenser do well in the UK as they have no competition.
Once the names get the marketing sorted and Joe Public realizes there is better out there the gadget market for lights will explode.
Led Lenser do well in the UK as they have no competition.
I've seen a few Fenix's in a few outdoor gear shops. Though mostly independent stores, not big brands like Blacks. They carry LED Lensers.
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My car is obsolete, but I still love it. I think that even though there will be much better lights in not even 10 years, the one you just bought will still work just fine. Do you really need the most recent TV? No. Do you want it? That's the real question.
No, I think the real question was whether a light might hold its value or appreciate, hence the investment part.
Cars are a lousy investment almost always...as in buying a new one to sell it as a used car and make money later. This works only when the market conspires to create a shortage at the very top end...where the demographic has no price limit...they will buy what they want...so if they can't GET a new one, they can bid on the used ones, etc. So other than the very top end of the market, for a very small number of cars...cars generally depreciate.
If you took the dollars to buy one in say (Example) 1950, etc, and converted to 2013 dollars...you may find that you would have made far MORE $ buying a savings bond with that money...or buying a mutual fund, etc.
If you invested say $50k in a car in 1950, an enormous sum back then...with a mere 5% return on your investment, the same $50k would net over a million dollars in 2013....but at a rather average 10% return you'd have over 20 million.
How many cars will give that kind of return? Not a long list to be sure, maybe if a famous/popular enough celeb owned/drove in it, etc....and that's about it.
Now, if you see one in a barn, and the farmer says he's got some old POS he want to unload for $50, and its worth something well over that, sure, THAT'S a good investment....you can't get a Ferrari for $50 regularly though.
Its one of the reasons I wait and get MOST lights on CPFM etc, instead of new...they HAVE already depreciated...and the owners see the previously glorious XML T6, etc...and want the NEW ONE WITH THE XPG2! and sell you the T6 to buy the G2, etc.
Not too many farmers with stuff under canvas in their barns on CPFM...but it IS a community...and the stuff IS cheaper, often by a LOT.
You might love your car...but, if you could trade it for one that was just like it but faster, more fuel efficient, more reliable, better handling and brakes, more comfy ride, upholstery that you CAN get glitter out of, etc...why not?
:thinking:
(Emotional attachment can win over logic...happens all the time)
There are better lights DAILY sometimes...but, YES, as far as NEED goes....sure, if light X works for you now...and your use is the same later...it STILL works for you.
If it works for you, but because you are USED to seeing dimly...a better light might work BETTER....but, you are GUARANTEED that after you buy the latest and greatest it will be the light that USED TO BE the latest and greatest in a short while.
A perfect example is LED throw.
Saabluster modified TN31's to throw at 405k cd....that's over 1200 METERS...he's taking orders for them.
People buying them are celebrating getting the longest throwing LED light in the world....
When the DEFT-X is announced today with 900k cd, more than DOUBLE the prior record holder...which for most people, had not even been DELIVERED yet. (900k cd = OVER A MILE)
IE: You research, find that light X is Numero Uno, and order it...and before your order arrives...a newer light comes out that makes your light you didn't even get yet less than half as good as the (Current) best one.
So a light is a TOOL, and they get better with time....You just never know how MUCH time.
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Not a chance. Buy them, and use them. I recently lost one of my older lights on a job, and I'm more saddened that I lost the batteries and the GID lanyard end, than the torch itself. Sure, it cost me $60 a few years back, but it'd been beat up plenty, and at least survived until now. Today, I can get 2x or more the brightness from the same form factor, for $40-60 online, or I could spend $50 retail and get one roughly comparable (Streamlight PT 2AA).
They're cool on their own, but at the end of the day, they are just tools, and not the highest quality ones. Customs, HDS, and some discontinued SFs may hold their value well, but the rest are better off replaced by newer and better technology. Since better technology is right around the corner, and about the same cost as the current best technology, technology from years prior really has no draw to it.
OTOH, there's something about good tools. I still use my Arc-AAA (Nichia CS) regularly (I'd get a Peak or Maratac, today), along with my Rebel Inova X1 (NIMH only, of course!), and angry blue Nichia CS Inova X5 (great around the house torch, a battery vampire, and amazingly tough); and I've been stocking up on Icon Rogues and Modi, because I like them, and regret not having gotten like 10 Longbow Micras and Ecos back in the day. When you're actually using them, you don't necessarily need the latest and brightest, and much more subtle aspects of the torch can make one really nice to have around.
They're cool on their own, but at the end of the day, they are just tools, and not the highest quality ones. Customs, HDS, and some discontinued SFs may hold their value well, but the rest are better off replaced by newer and better technology. Since better technology is right around the corner, and about the same cost as the current best technology, technology from years prior really has no draw to it.
OTOH, there's something about good tools. I still use my Arc-AAA (Nichia CS) regularly (I'd get a Peak or Maratac, today), along with my Rebel Inova X1 (NIMH only, of course!), and angry blue Nichia CS Inova X5 (great around the house torch, a battery vampire, and amazingly tough); and I've been stocking up on Icon Rogues and Modi, because I like them, and regret not having gotten like 10 Longbow Micras and Ecos back in the day
. When you're actually using them, you don't necessarily need the latest and brightest, and much more subtle aspects of the torch can make one really nice to have around.
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No, I think the real question was whether a light might hold its value or appreciate, hence the investment part.
Cars are a lousy investment almost always...as in buying a new one to sell it as a used car and make money later. This works only when the market conspires to create a shortage at the very top end...where the demographic has no price limit...they will buy what they want...so if they can't GET a new one, they can bid on the used ones, etc. So other than the very top end of the market, for a very small number of cars...cars generally depreciate.
If you took the dollars to buy one in say (Example) 1950, etc, and converted to 2013 dollars...you may find that you would have made far MORE $ buying a savings bond with that money...or buying a mutual fund, etc.
If you invested say $50k in a car in 1950, an enormous sum back then...with a mere 5% return on your investment, the same $50k would net over a million dollars in 2013....but at a rather average 10% return you'd have over 20 million.
How many cars will give that kind of return? Not a long list to be sure, maybe if a famous/popular enough celeb owned/drove in it, etc....and that's about it.
Now, if you see one in a barn, and the farmer says he's got some old POS he want to unload for $50, and its worth something well over that, sure, THAT'S a good investment....you can't get a Ferrari for $50 regularly though.
Its one of the reasons I wait and get MOST lights on CPFM etc, instead of new...they HAVE already depreciated...and the owners see the previously glorious XML T6, etc...and want the NEW ONE WITH THE XPG2! and sell you the T6 to buy the G2, etc.
Not too many farmers with stuff under canvas in their barns on CPFM...but it IS a community...and the stuff IS cheaper, often by a LOT.
You might love your car...but, if you could trade it for one that was just like it but faster, more fuel efficient, more reliable, better handling and brakes, more comfy ride, upholstery that you CAN get glitter out of, etc...why not?
:thinking:
(Emotional attachment can win over logic...happens all the time)
There are better lights DAILY sometimes...but, YES, as far as NEED goes....sure, if light X works for you now...and your use is the same later...it STILL works for you.
If it works for you, but because you are USED to seeing dimly...a better light might work BETTER....but, you are GUARANTEED that after you buy the latest and greatest it will be the light that USED TO BE the latest and greatest in a short while.
A perfect example is LED throw.
Saabluster modified TN31's to throw at 405k cd....that's over 1200 METERS...he's taking orders for them.
People buying them are celebrating getting the longest throwing LED light in the world....
When the DEFT-X is announced today with 900k cd, more than DOUBLE the prior record holder...which for most people, had not even been DELIVERED yet. (900k cd = OVER A MILE)
IE: You research, find that light X is Numero Uno, and order it...and before your order arrives...a newer light comes out that makes your light you didn't even get yet less than half as good as the (Current) best one.
So a light is a TOOL, and they get better with time....You just never know how MUCH time.
If you want to think as investment only as a value increase, then almost nothing you buy qualifies, now does it? Your TV, couch, mattress, oven, tools, furniture will all loose value. Yet are these not investments in your quality of life?
Not sure what you mean by "dimly" when I have a few EDC that can light up my kitchen about as brightly as the bulbs in there.
Emotional attachment with tools comes from using them, being able to work with them naturally without thinking, but if you want to exchange a Dodge Charger S-R/T for my Saturn SC1 I'll take it. Do I need a Dodge Charger to move about? absolutely not; more fun has not much to do with the investment part unless it was made for entertainment.
LOL
What's the point of replacing it if its just as bright as the one you have?
I don't think that was the question.
I think the OP wanted to know if lights retain their value, or gain value...like an investment....and the answer is a resounding NO.
If you want to collect them, like stamps, that's fine...but, when I look at what lights sold for new, vs what they sell for used...even in mint condition...yes, you are 100% correct, they hold value like a couch.
So, correct, MOST purchases to USE every day, etc...are NOT investments. They are PURCHASES.
Am I emotionally attached to some tools? Sure...as you said, sometimes the chemistry just hits that sweet spot. Sometimes I just like the feel or the look, etc...it just resonates with me.
But they are still not investments.
What it comes down to for lights...is that as technology advances, you generally get more performance for less money.
Even a light that was the cat's meow a decade ago, say one that went for a grand even then...you can buy one just as tough or tougher for so much less its not even funny.
A lot of VERY EXPENSIVE lights devolved in value to the point where their PRIMARY value lay in the ability to CANNIBALIZE them, and use their bodies as hosts, etc.
The business end of the older lights just didn't make much LIGHT. The handles still worked though, so the light that was several hundred bucks new is worth $50 or so used.
Are there "Collectors" who WANT a 30 lumen thousand dollar light? Sure, for historical value...but they won't PAY that much for them...and they probably won't USE them, so they don't CARE if any light comes out or not....its a museum piece essentially.
If you are going into harms way, and need a flashlight you can count on....you may not WANT a 1990's era incandescent relic, even if it does come with a lifetime warranty....and even if in the '90's, it was one of the best choices, etc.
So, bottom line, you won't make much money investing in flashlights, couches, Saturn S1's, etc.
Mutual funds are typically more productive.
You buy the light to ENJOY, RIGHT NOW!
What's the point of replacing it if its just as bright as the one you have?
I don't think that was the question.
I think the OP wanted to know if lights retain their value, or gain value...like an investment....and the answer is a resounding NO.
If you want to collect them, like stamps, that's fine...but, when I look at what lights sold for new, vs what they sell for used...even in mint condition...yes, you are 100% correct, they hold value like a couch.
So, correct, MOST purchases to USE every day, etc...are NOT investments. They are PURCHASES.
Am I emotionally attached to some tools? Sure...as you said, sometimes the chemistry just hits that sweet spot. Sometimes I just like the feel or the look, etc...it just resonates with me.
But they are still not investments.
What it comes down to for lights...is that as technology advances, you generally get more performance for less money.
Even a light that was the cat's meow a decade ago, say one that went for a grand even then...you can buy one just as tough or tougher for so much less its not even funny.
A lot of VERY EXPENSIVE lights devolved in value to the point where their PRIMARY value lay in the ability to CANNIBALIZE them, and use their bodies as hosts, etc.
The business end of the older lights just didn't make much LIGHT. The handles still worked though, so the light that was several hundred bucks new is worth $50 or so used.
Are there "Collectors" who WANT a 30 lumen thousand dollar light? Sure, for historical value...but they won't PAY that much for them...and they probably won't USE them, so they don't CARE if any light comes out or not....its a museum piece essentially.
If you are going into harms way, and need a flashlight you can count on....you may not WANT a 1990's era incandescent relic, even if it does come with a lifetime warranty....and even if in the '90's, it was one of the best choices, etc.
So, bottom line, you won't make much money investing in flashlights, couches, Saturn S1's, etc.
Mutual funds are typically more productive.
You buy the light to ENJOY, RIGHT NOW!
herosemblem
Enlightened
As a monetary investment: as a rule of thumb, absolutely no way. Forget about it. Don't bother.
As an investment in your well-being (insofar as you consider being able to see in the dark, such an investment): you bet!
As an investment in your well-being (insofar as you consider being able to see in the dark, such an investment): you bet!
I wasn't thinking they would gain in value, just wondering if they would hold their value better than say computers or cars. As i mentioned earlier as an example there's a new iphone every year but the LD01 is not replaced every year so maybe it can stay relevant longer so it keeps it's value.
At the same time while the advance in technology might not be as fast as other electronics there will still be better and smaller lights that come out that will make the current ones look dated i guess.
At the same time while the advance in technology might not be as fast as other electronics there will still be better and smaller lights that come out that will make the current ones look dated i guess.
LightJaguar
Enlightened
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2007
- Messages
- 321
Buying an EDC flashlight to invest in is like buying a Corolla or Civic commuter as an investment. One of the few known commercial brands that I have keep their value or even go way up in Value are Surefire flashlights. You probably missed the wave but over a year ago if you wanted an EDC to "invest" in ,a Surefire C, M or E series flashlight would have been the way to go. Right before Surefire stopped producing them they made one last batch. The prices went down (but still comparatively high compared to other brands) with the new but soon to be outdated products flooding the market. I bought a bunch of C2s for around $60 and a few E2E for around $40.
Not only did the C/M/E series hold their value but they are going up quickly. You can keep upgrading them to keep up with the times but you could sell it for the same amount if you took care of it.
However I highly doubt that they are a good investment over the long run. Some of my Surefires have gone up over twice the value since I bought them in less then a year. I doubt that they are going to double in price again anytime soon though. I think that the demand for product that is no longer available is making them go up in the short term. Also there are collectors that will but some rare stuff at a premium price. There even seem to be a few flippers making some money by buying some rare Surefires and selling them at higher prices inflating the prices even more.
I think in time though some collectors will slow down or stop collecting Surefires once it gets harder and more expensive to buy out of production and rare Surefires. Some of the flippers will probably exit the market once they are not longer able to make a quick buck.
I for one have thought about getting rid of my more expensive stuff to fund my less expensive but more practical flashlights.
When I start thinking like that I walk over to my "vault" take out my rarer Surefires look at them, play with them, then I put them back in thinking "my precious."
Not only did the C/M/E series hold their value but they are going up quickly. You can keep upgrading them to keep up with the times but you could sell it for the same amount if you took care of it.
However I highly doubt that they are a good investment over the long run. Some of my Surefires have gone up over twice the value since I bought them in less then a year. I doubt that they are going to double in price again anytime soon though. I think that the demand for product that is no longer available is making them go up in the short term. Also there are collectors that will but some rare stuff at a premium price. There even seem to be a few flippers making some money by buying some rare Surefires and selling them at higher prices inflating the prices even more.
I think in time though some collectors will slow down or stop collecting Surefires once it gets harder and more expensive to buy out of production and rare Surefires. Some of the flippers will probably exit the market once they are not longer able to make a quick buck.
I for one have thought about getting rid of my more expensive stuff to fund my less expensive but more practical flashlights.
When I start thinking like that I walk over to my "vault" take out my rarer Surefires look at them, play with them, then I put them back in thinking "my precious."
