SC52 vs LD20 RRT0 QAA HP11 TK40

Hi, everyone.

I thought I'd pay back all the great info and
enjoyable reading with some beamshots of various flashlights.

The images were shot with a nice Canon DLSR, and white balance is set
to sunlight, so the colors should be very 'accurate'. To the eye,
the tints are less saturated, but visible as in the photos. Please
remember that the hot spots are 'blown' in some of the pics (the
camera couldn't expose higher, so the white areas are actually
brighter than they appear to be!)

Since I just got the SC52, I'll note that a ceiling comparo shows the
SC52 as marginally brighter than the RRT0, and significantly brighter
than the QAA. The SC52 appears nearly identical to the HP11 with
it's 'diff' diffuser in place.

With fresh Eneloops, the SC52 ran 55 minutes on H1, while the RRT0
was still going strong 15 minutes later, and I shut it off, too. The
SC52 was brighter up till the last 10 minutes.

You should be able to download a bigger size of the following image
from here, so you can read the text:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8927203@N02/8411946173/sizes/l/in/photostream/



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8411946173_350b81d4d4.jpg

Not seeing a larger size on flickr.

Bill

Nice shots.... But it's still a bit hard to determine relative brightness between the lights due to differences in beam patterns and tints.

More importantly, any of the photos which have lost all detail in the centers of the hotspots (ie, have gone totally white and you can no longer see the folds of the blinds) means the hotspot is overexposed and therefore you are not capturing the full brightness of the beam (it can only go so white). The Quark picture looks like its on the border of overexposure, the brighter Fenix shots are definitely.

You can continually stop it down until the details appear in the hotspot of the brightest light, but given the throwers you have in the mix, to do so, means you'll probably lose the spill on the flooders for the photos.

If you're interested in using your DSLR as an ambient lumen meter to measure any mode of any light, PM me.... it's a piece of cake and I think you'll find it quite accurate.

Bullzeyebill said:

Not seeing a larger size on flickr.

Click to expand...

There was an error with the way the first link was posted. I think this is the link to the full size photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8927203@N02/8411946173/sizes/l/in/photostream


alternate link to the full size photo:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8411946173_350b81d4d4_b.jpg

skid00skid00 said:

Since I just got the SC52, I'll note that a ceiling comparo shows the
SC52 as marginally brighter than the RRT0, and significantly brighter
than the QAA.

Click to expand...

The RRT0 S2 has a 260lm Jetbeam rating.
Which version of the LD20 is it? There are 'tens' of different LD20 versions out. The XP-G R5 has a 180lm Fenix rating.

In the picture it seems to me that the LD20 is the brightest light, which has to be wrong, so the pic isnt too useful other than tint evaluation. The SC52 has clearly the expected XM-L U2 greenish haze all over the beam pattern, which some people with bad eyes cant detect

Please in your own words, can you see if the LD20 (which version you got??) is brighter than the SC52? The size (diameter!) of the spill circle on the white ceiling projection must coincide, i.e. the SC52 must be held closer to the ceiling than the LD20. Then look at the white floor. If the SC52 were 280 Fenix lumens, i.e. 100 Fenix lumens brighter than LD20 R5, you would instantly see that it is much much brighter than the already super bright 180 Fenix lumens of LD20 R5 which i own myself. By means of fast switching between LD20-Turbo and SC52-H1 modes you could tell which one is brighter and by how much.

I have a new LD20 R5, and i am gonna have a SC52w someday too. Then i'll do the comparison on my own. If the SC52w isnt clearly brighter to my eyes than my LD20 R5, then i will return the zebra to the dealer with the reason 'false lumens claims compared with Fenix ANSI scale'.

shelm said:

The RRT0 S2 has a 260lm Jetbeam rating.
Which version of the LD20 is it? There are 'tens' of different LD20 versions out. The XP-G R5 has a 180lm Fenix rating.

In the picture it seems to me that the LD20 is the brightest light, which has to be wrong, so the pic isnt too useful other than tint evaluation. The SC52 has clearly the expected XM-L U2 greenish haze all over the beam pattern, which some people with bad eyes cant detect

Please in your own words, can you see if the LD20 (which version you got??) is brighter than the SC52? The size (diameter!) of the spill circle on the white ceiling projection must coincide, i.e. the SC52 must be held closer to the ceiling than the LD20. Then look at the white floor. If the SC52 were 280 Fenix lumens, i.e. 100 Fenix lumens brighter than LD20 R5, you would instantly see that it is much much brighter than the already super bright 180 Fenix lumens of LD20 R5 which i own myself. By means of fast switching between LD20-Turbo and SC52-H1 modes you could tell which one is brighter and by how much.

I have a new LD20 R5, and i am gonna have a SC52w someday too. Then i'll do the comparison on my own. If the SC52w isnt clearly brighter to my eyes than my LD20 R5, then i will return the zebra to the dealer with the reason 'false lumens claims compared with Fenix ANSI scale'.

Click to expand...

I have the XP-G R5 version. It wouldn't surprise me that the LD20 has the tightest hotspot of those lights. Ceiling bounce shows the LD20 just barely brighter *directly under the hotspot* on the floor, but both lights have the same illumination 30 degrees to the side of directly underneath the hotspot on the ceiling. So you still can't tell which light has more total flux... I have an idea, though...

MojaveMoon07, thank you for fixing my post!

reppans said:

Nice shots.... But it's still a bit hard to determine relative brightness between the lights due to differences in beam patterns and tints.

More importantly, any of the photos which have lost all detail in the centers of the hotspots (ie, have gone totally white and you can no longer see the folds of the blinds) means the hotspot is overexposed and therefore you are not capturing the full brightness of the beam (it can only go so white). The Quark picture looks like its on the border of overexposure, the brighter Fenix shots are definitely.

You can continually stop it down until the details appear in the hotspot of the brightest light, but given the throwers you have in the mix, to do so, means you'll probably lose the spill on the flooders for the photos.

If you're interested in using your DSLR as an ambient lumen meter to measure any mode of any light, PM me.... it's a piece of cake and I think you'll find it quite accurate.

Click to expand...

I agree. I took pics of these flashlights some time ago, just as a rough comparo tool. In the real world, the environment has to be considered. Certainly the LD20 is better for finding distant deer, while the SC52 is ideal for in-home use.

skid00skid00 said:

So you still can't tell which light has more total flux... I have an idea, though...

Click to expand...

You're saying that it is difficult to compare the brightness of the 2 lights because their beam pattern is so different, even when you adapt the spill size to the same diameter? I hear ya. Thanks for your efforts so far.

Tbh the first thought which crossed my mind when i was reading your post was 'nice try. please try again. this time harder' lol. Then my follow-up thought was 'if he cant tell right away by looking at the floor whether the LD20 R5 or the SC52 is brighter, then there is no way that the SC52 is 100 Fenix lumens brighter than the Turbo-mode of LD20 R5!!'.

100 Fenix lumens is a lot. It's the brightness of the LD10 R5 in Turbo-mode, for example. If you superposition the LD10 R5 beam and the LD20 R5 beam, then you get exactly 280 Fenix lumens, an exceedingly bright flux, which Klarus would probably rate as "450 ANSI lumens" on the retail box because i made the experience that Klarus always overstates their lumens specs by an impudent margin; their current model Klarus RS1A for example is rated 210 ANSI lumens by them and i tested it, compared it against my Eagletac D25A (rated 121 ANSI lumens by Eagletac) and the Fenix LD20 R5 (rated 180 ANSI lumens by Fenix). And guess what?? My D25A is brighter than the RS1A wtf!! Maybe the "121" are an understatement by ET so let's take the "180" by Fenix then as reference. If i had to guesstimate then, the RS1A is in the ballpark of maybe 135 Fenix lumens only, i.e. beating the LD12 S2 (which i dont have) by a small margin because of the newer XP-G2 bin. **** Klarus, really! :hairpull: That's OT anyway..

So again, you cant tell by your eyes whether the ceiling bounce of SC52 or of LD20 R5 is brighter in total flux? — Then it's clear: If the LD20 R5 is per definition-reference defined to have 180 Fenix lumens, then the SC52 is nowhere near 280 Fenix lumens!! :thumbsdow
Zebralight may call the SC52 "280 ANSI lumens" but it is wiser to call it "280 Zebra lumens". And clearly, 280 Zebra lumens < 280 Fenix lumens!!!!

reppans had estimated ~225 lumens on his scale (ThruSevensTac i think).

Hmm.. i have the feeling that not too many ZL buyers really care much whether the "280" are Zebra lumens only or real Fenix lumens. We established the fact that the SC52 is noticeably brighter than the D25A, that's already something impressive to start with .. because to my eyes the D25A is already a beast with the rated "121" ET lumens, which must be an understatement compared to the Fenix scale.

I found out that the LD20 R5 is so much brighter than my D25A .. which is no real wonder because it is powered by 2x Eneloop AA plus the world-famous Fenix optimized efficiency .. and if the SC52 reached real 180 Fenix lumens, then i'll move on and be satisfied with the SC52 purchase. And i will verify the SC52-vs-LD20 comparison results personally by myself, with my own eyes. For a 100 Fenix lumens difference, i dont need photosensors or any lightmetering equipment to tell me that two small Eneloop-powered lights have a real 100 Fenix lumens difference. If there is a 100 Fenix lumens difference, then i can report the difference right away with my own eyes. Pitch dark room, white ceiling bounce, adapting spill size projection diameter, looking down at white floor, maybe half-closing the eyes, that simple.

Hey, i am going to buy the SC52 anyway, even if it produces only 180 Fenix lumens. Any 1xAA light which is noticeably brighter than the D25A deserves a lotta respect. On Turbo-mode, the D25A draws up to 2.2A current. 2.2A at 1.50V fed to an XP-G2 emitter. You cant really feed more to an XP-G2 emitter. That's the reason why my D25A XP-G2 is so bright. Sure, XM-L emitter is brighter than XP-G2 emitter, so there you have it, the reason why the SC52 XM-L be brighter than D25A XP-G2.

In any case, for my peace of mind i need to know how many Fenix lumens (i dont care about selfbuilt lumens no offense) the 280 Zebra lumens translates to. And for this purpose, i will have to compare the SC52 repeatedly against Fenix lights with modes which are in the ballpark of 150-300 Fenix lumens.

The LD20 R5 is a great light to start with, acceptable tint, ugly dirty hotspot but so bright on Turbo-mode! And as the OP stated, he cannot readily see which light is brighter. Which means. That the flux difference aint 100 Fenix lumens but much less. Maybe 15 Fenix lumens? :nana:


Thanks skid00skid00. Very helpful so far. If your eyes cant pin it down, then we should call it a draw between LD20 and SC52

Shelm, you sure type a lot of words!

I bought my first 'real' flashlight (LED) a couple years ago. It was the LD20. I loved the light. It was amazingly better than the Mag-Lites I had used for 30 years. I was seduced by lumens, and bought the TK40. I was amazed when it could light up a house a block away. Then I bought the Quark and found out that lumens weren't needed, but beam pattern was. Then I got a couple headlamps. Then the RRT0, so I could dial-in what I needed, with a wide beam pattern. Of course, by now, I'm buying lights like potato chips, and needed another one. I was slightly intrigued by the ZL, and ended up trying the SC52. I expected to hate the interface, but hoped the wide beam would be useful.

You know what I've learned by all this? Lumens don't matter. Tint doesn't matter. Beam pattern and usability matter. The SC52 is by far my favorite light. Course, I've only had it for a week, so the crush will abate. The TK40 sits on the mantle, unused. The LD20 resides in the glovebox of my car, along with the HL21. The HP11 is used with the diffuser every time I work on my car. The RRT0 and SC52 get used, and the QAA is getting lonely.

And your 'zeal' is going to make you a very unhappy person...

skid00skid00 said:

And your 'zeal' is going to make you a very unhappy person...

Click to expand...

i know exactly what you mean and you are right.
at least i dont complain about unhappiness in life
i'll tell you what:

i am gonna get the SC52w. if it looks(!) as bright as my LD20 R5, then i will decide to be happy and stop the zeal. if i can guesstimate the flux to be 180+ Fenix lumens, that's good enough for me as knowledge and truthful info. as your posts indicate, there is no way that the LD20 R5 *is* 280 Fenix lumens.

btw to me what counts is tint. beautiful beam generates joy in life

Shelm,

I ran the SC52 against a line of 30 foot tall pine trees, 100 feet away. (I did that when the grass was NOT covered with snow, so no reflection). They were lit bright enough to see small bird type things on H1. I didn't expect that from the light. The LD20's beam would be better at that range, though. I only notice green tint at the corona. The 'hotspot' looks white in actual use. I wonder how that color would enhance perceived brightness against grass? We've got snow ATM, so I can't test that...

shelm said:

i know exactly what you mean and you are right.
at least i dont complain about unhappiness in life
i'll tell you what:

i am gonna get the SC52w. if it looks(!) as bright as my LD20 R5, then i will decide to be happy and stop the zeal. if i can guesstimate the flux to be 180+ Fenix lumens, that's good enough for me as knowledge and truthful info. as your posts indicate, there is no way that the LD20 R5 *is* 280 Fenix lumens.

btw to me what counts is tint. beautiful beam generates joy in life

Click to expand...

Are they going to release a SC52w this year?