LED Power Saving Con

This post just came up on sci.engr.lighting
The original post is indent quoted with my reply interspersed:

>>>Peter Lowrie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 15 November 2003.
>
> Announcement:
>
> Light Emitting Diode (LED) Intensification Breakthrough in New Zealand
> laboratory.
>
> Using ultra-small electronic componentry to intensify (make brighter)the
> ubiquitous LED, the LED output can be increased by up to four times
without
> blowing them up as would be expected when you shove too much voltage into
> them.

Er, LEDs are current driven.....

> The Free Electron laboratory technicians in Lower Hutt, North Island,
> New Zealand have developed a device to intensify LED's by overpowering and
> cooling LED's

T1 , T1 3/4, LStar, Spider, SMD what kind of LED exactly?

How does the LED mount to the device to acheive this cooling?

>to make an otherwise mediocre LED shine furiously bright.
>
> Given the headlong rush to more Lumens per Watt and the wide range of
> applications that LED's lend themselves to, it is surprising that such
> an add-on component has not, before today, been developed.

Because using any form of active cooling loses any efficency benefits is
probably why...

>The LED
> Accelerator brings a solution to bear upon the problem of otherwise poor
LED
> luminosity performance. At an increasing rate LED's are being used in
> industry, transport, home and personal lighting, security, communications,
> toys and consumer electronics, the future is bright then, for a company
> that will manufacture and distribute the LED Accelerator.
>
> In the next few days it is expected that rights to the device will be
> auctioned by eBay and at other auction sites in Europe, and Australasia.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/ledaccelerator
>
> This press release was provided by:
>
> Peter E. Lowrie.
> Chairman,
> Free Electron.
> High St,
> Lower Hutt, 6009.
> New Zealand.
> ++64-4-9766712

Honestly would like to see good LED products given wider publicity,my living
depends on it.

However, obvious snake oil salesmen and kooks should be shunned and exposed
as speedily and thoroughly as possible.

Clearly this character belongs in this category, lines such as this expose
him as a charlatan:

"The Device interconnects a nominal 9 Volt DC supply to nominal 5 Volt Light
Emitting Diode Arrays."

Perhaps he sells previously unknown to physics 5V LED arrays.

Another `power saving` con.

Adam
<<<

If its for real, I have no problem apologising.Regretably I dont think it is.Any comments from the panel?

Adam

It's fairly easy to get more light out of any led by overdriving it. If you can cool it properly it will not burn out quite as quickly either. If you reduced the life even by as much as 3/4th thats still better than anything else.

Unfortunately, as you note, LED's get less efficient as you pump more power into them and more and more is released as heat. Thus the need for this magical cooling. If he's put a peltier or some other things on it to cool them off that will certainly help then not to die as quickly but also as you mention it will use up even more power. Potentially considerably more power. Peltier and related devices are very inefficient and use a considerably amount of power for the change in temperature they can create.

In a flashlight it is sometimes desirable to have the greatest light output possible, so you might get away with a special use flashlight that used active cooling of some kind and a ludicrously overdriven LED. We've bandied this idea around here before. But your battery life would be horrible and the life of the LED would also suffer.

Overdriving LED's doesn't make them more efficient, it makes them less. There isn't any way around this no matter how much technology you slap around them. I agree with you, I don't believe the claims of the website are realistic.

EDIT: Further reading of the site doesn't really seem to claim that it's super efficient or anything. Though it does say that it's "low power consumption" but as you note above his continual reference to the voltage of the LED's reveals that there might be some misunderstand as they are current devices and each one will differ in it's voltage a bit. Doesn't really scan with what I've learned around here.

Well it just so happens I have an idea of my own...take a naked LED die...mount it in a metel flashlight head...and fill it with fluid. Yes folks, thats right...dirrect die super cooling. Now, turn the power way, way up...brighter than hell. I am in no way responcible for burnt out eye balls.

Folks, this incredible technology can be yours to use exclusivly. And for the bargain price of only $99,999.00

Yes, your dream come true...act now...e-mail me at www.imasucker.com Have you money order ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hello,

It aint a con or snake oil, it's for real. I have made no claims as to efficiency.

1 LED = Diode = 1/2 thermocouple, how can I say much about how it works without giving the game away.

It is subject to all of the usual physical laws. Obviously heat is going to be a byproduct - and always will be in a 'driving' situation.

My claim is that it makes LEDs, at least, a little more useful and up to four times brighter. The circuit per se is not to be found in any electronics hobby project publications.

That I thought of it first, and you did not think of the idea until I posted info on it, is reason to be sceptical and curious, as opposed to judgmental and bad mannered.

I suppose we could mount the LED in liquid Nitrogen, that would work. ;-)

Hey Ken, why don't you ditch windows, In linux I've never had a virus, trojan or disk corruption and I can use the PC without the slightest trepidation. Using windows turns people into nervous (unproductive) wrecks. www.u_r_a_sucker_using_windows.net

Best wishes to all
Peter Lowrie

Peter it must be aweful for you to read this thread. As for your *discovery/invention* In my opinion, if it's worth then it shoul make its' way to the consumer market. That way you have some proof. We would like to see your discovery/invention in action. Without these, I am afraid words can be anything..

Bring it on..

Vince.

Amazing how many read CPF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
It aint a con or snake oil, it's for real. I have made no claims as to efficiency.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pleased you have found your way here Mr Lowrie.
Indeed my mis-interpretation of efficiency calims, in fact increased output claims, I do apologise.

[ QUOTE ]
1 LED = Diode = 1/2 thermocouple, how can I say much about how it works without giving the game away.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well thermocouple generates a voltage in proportion to applied heat, are you confusing this with the peltier effect where the reverse is to an extent true?
Indeed, one of the difficuties you appear to have is offering protection for any potential investor.
You are seeking substantial investment.
An investor either looks for international competently drafted Patents and applications, a whole other subject in itself.

OR

A `trade secret` like Coca - Cola`s secret recipe for instance.Your reply to my question about protectable trade secrets in sci.engr.lighting on 19th November 2003,meassage i.d. [email protected] was

[ QUOTE ]
> Is there a trade secret that a competitors oscilloscope will not reveal?
>
> Adam

All WOULD be revealed!!

eter Lowrie

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My claim is that it makes LEDs, at least, a little more useful and up to four times brighter.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a bold claim, 4 times brighter would indeed be a useful gain, but at what cost, in efficiency, life, lumen maintenance and colour shift?

[ QUOTE ]
The circuit per se is not to be found in any electronics hobby project publications.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do stick with my oroginal assertion of the 20th November in sci,engr.lighting, [email protected]

[ QUOTE ]
`scope regrettably, is not a magic wand, trust that I have at times wished
that it was, it can only tell you things about voltage over time, and for
960,000 dollars I want something that isn`t in the Radio Shack LED Projects
for Beginers book......

[/ QUOTE ]

Wether explicitly or not in a hobbyist or reference electronic text, for USD $960,000 exclusive and PROTECTABLE rights to the technology are essential.

I suspect your lack of even a Patent Application is a sign that as can be a problem with Patents, you have been beaten with Prior Art and you are aware you have.

[ QUOTE ]
That I thought of it first, and you did not think of the idea until I posted info on it, is reason to be sceptical and curious, as opposed to judgmental and bad mannered.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit to still being mystified as to what your idea is and how it is supposed to work.

Unfortunately as we have previously agreed LED land is infested with dubious claims from dis-ingenuous characters.

Someone appearing claiming to boost LED brightness by 4 times, an obvious lack of knowledge of the state of the art in LEDs and absolutely no proof or demonstration to back up there claims, is likely to meet a less than rapturous reception, in a newsgroup that is dedicated to the most technical aspects of lighting.

Consistently failing to provide any backing for your claims is ill mannered and liable to encourage less than flattering judgement.

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose we could mount the LED in liquid Nitrogen, that would work. ;-)

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I remember ther are some difficulties with actually getting an LED to work at these temperatures, hopefully someone could fill in some more of the detail.

The development of blue and white LEDs was down to the determination of one man Shuji Nakamura.
New Zealand is the home of the innovative stage lighting manufacturer Selecon.
It is not impossible that you Mr Lowrie have developed a new way of driving LEDs that has evaded the resources of much larger corporations.

However until you provide proof of your invention/development actual operation that matches your claim for it, many will remain unconvinced.

This reply to your post on www.candlepowerforums.com will be crossposted to usenet sci.engr.lighting and scie.electronics.design.

To qualify your claim will you provide a working sample, on receipt of a binding non-disclosure agreement, to a member of one of these groups for independent testing?

Adam

When I applied for (and was granted) a U.S. patent ten years ago, I built a working model first. Just to prove it would function as represented, and of course it did.

But despite all that I still didn't get any investors, so with no working model nor patent that we know of for the LED Accelerator, I think the chances of getting venture capital will be daunting indeed.

Exactly.

It is highly unlikely that a manufacturer would engage in licensing agreements pertaining to the "intellectual property" of an entity not in possession of patents as there is no legally supported right to sell or lease unrecognized property.

Corporations know this and probably won't be doing business with those that don't.

One reason I suspect there is no patent on this idea is because of these conflicting statements:

"At an increasing rate LED's are being used in industry, transport, home and personal lighting, security, communications, toys and consumer electronics, the future is bright then, for a company that will manufacture and distribute the LED Accelerator."

Then, "In the next few days it is expected that rights to the device will be auctioned by eBay and at other auction sites in Europe, and Australasia."

If it is patented and it is a great idea, auctioning it on ebay would surely result in disasater. No one will bid on it unless it is revealed and unveiled. Doing so opens the idea up to theft. Also, this would just about insure that no manufacturer would want anything to do with it.

This approach would seem to indicate Peter Lowrie's lack of experience.

It's possible that Peter Lowrie is a well meaning individual that discovered something, had a ureka moment, and like millions of people simply would like to be rewarded for his intellect. There is some question of this discovery as, has been pointed out by LedFX, Peter Lowrie's terminology does not correctly speak to LED technology.

Announcing an unproven discovery pertaining to an industry can hurt and otherwise hinder that industry. Hence, LedFX's displeasure with Peter Lowrie's efforts.

"...the device will be auctioned by eBay and at other auction sites in Europe, and Australasia."


Whether they exist or not, can the same set of intellectual property rights be auctioned off at Several auction sites?

I saw that too. I'm certainly not an authority on this but I'll take a stab at it.

With the assumption this is all on the up-and-up, it could be that "rights" are in reference to licensing agreements. The patent owner can lease the property through these agreements allowing manufacturers to develope a product while the inventor retains ownership of the intellectual property. That can become complicated but I think it can be solved through the license agreements or extended agreements.

Let's say an inventor has patents in the US and several other countries. A licensee in Australia agrees to only develope/manufacture and sell in an agreed upon territory. A licensee in the US agrees to do the same but in a different territory. In this way they are not competitors...sort of. There would need to be some agreements on pricing. The license, of course, disallows any party from disclosing details of the art, intellect, process, manufacture or engineering of the product.

Hope I didn't sound like an international legal/finance/marketing expert. Of course, I'm not; otherwise I would own many more flashlights...quite a few of which would be non-continental, U.S. hybrids.

Ah! Kinda like the protections granted in U.S. vs. foreign patents...

Usual disclaimers about not being a lawyer or playing one on TV.

Would recommend reading Don Lancaster`s take on the patent system:

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/casagpat.pdf

There is a lot of help around for the inventor out there nowadays:

http://www.patentcafe.com

http://www.invent.org

http://www.inventorfraud.com

Adam

I read Don Lancaster's piece very carefully and with great interest. I think it is good that he speaks a cautionary school of thought...very experienced fellow. The part I may disagree with is avoiding patents all together. I have some second hand knowledge of license agreements that were successful. They could never have been negotiated without the developers owning patents.

I wish I knew more about patents and your links opened up some resources so, thanks.

Back on topic: I hope I reflected your concerns with Mr. Lowrie's announcement in a helpful way.

Gidday Koala

Thanks for your thoughtful sentiment. I have broad shoulders and so I don't take abusive criticism seriously at all. That people cannot elucidate their thoughts and feelings resorting to put-downs, insults and personal attacks indicates lack of intelligence, poor judgment and literary incompetence - they are poor buggers indeed. You and I, on the other hand are careful, considerate, erudite, charming, intelligent and competent - we are to be congratulated and we will always find favour because of our courtesy and gracious consideration of others' thoughts and feelings.

I hate the guy's that criticise and minimise,
the guys that enterprise and maximise,
that rise above the guys,
who criticise and minimise.

Best wishes
Peter Lowrie

You can say that again. 14% of the hits to:

LED Illumination Breakthrough

Are generated from this forum - Thank you Candlepowerforums!

Kind regards
Peter Lowrie

[ QUOTE ]
Peter_Lowrie said:
I hate the guy's that criticise and minimise,
the guys that enterprise and maximise,
that rise above the guys,
who criticise and minimise.

Best wishes
Peter Lowrie

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif You hate guys "that enterprise..."? How come?

BC

I didn't understand it at first either.

I believe that was due to a misplaced comma within an attempt at prose, used to facilitate a delusional enjoyment of some non-existent favor by exuding forth some misplaced feelings while using a sophomoric, circuitous tool for effect in an effort to make the theme more clearly understood...the theme being hatred of verbose phantom attackers known for their use of abusive criticism.

I suppose a misused comma, a misused apostrophe and five misspelled words can happen to even the most literarily competent technicians.

EXACTLY!

In UK English an "S" is commonly replaced by a "Z" in US English and therefore not a speling miskate.

Best wishes
Peter Lowrie

I'm glad that got cleared up.

It's been a few days. How is the ebay auction going? Would you post a link to it? I couldn't seem to find it.