Nitecore P12 broke twice on me. Need advice.

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum but I referenced some great info from here over the years. In fact it helped me decide on the purchase of a nitecore p12. I really like the flashlight and all it's features. However, I have had two flashlight break on me in less than two months. My flashlight sees everyday use but is never abused. I have dropped it from heights no more than waist high. It hit concrete as a result both times and now neither flashlight works. I sent the first one in for warranty and I am currently waiting to hear back from edisonbright. It was only a few months old. In the meantime I bought another one because I really need it for work. Well, last night I dropped it no more than two feet and when I picked it up it did not work. I made sure the threads were tight and everything. There is a small crack on the plastic part that is the rear of the led assembly. I assume this is what failed. The thing is; I had a led lenser for almost thee years that was beat to hell and it only failed because the tail switch stopped working correctly. It was dropped a hundred times. In fact the lense had a crack in it but it still worked. So my big question is....are you guys having the same problem with your P12. I have read all over the internet and I almost can't find a negative review of the p12. How did I break two of them?

RefrigerationGuy said:

It hit concrete as a result both times and now neither flashlight works.

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Concrete is always the killer. These lights are tough but not indestructible.

nobody ever claimed that P12 is a robust light. companies like Foursevens and Eagletac and zebralight traditionally do not issue any ANSI FL-1 rating for drop impact resistance but they do offer 10yrs of performance guarantee. olight has 5 yrs, zebralight 1yrs.

the only company which makes robustness claims is Armytek.

maybe try an Armytek next time? 10yrs no questions asked warranty too.

Thanks guys. The nitecore has a drop rating for 3 ft I believe. If a nitecore p12 can't stand being dropped two feet then what good is it? Who doesn't drop their flashlight every once in a while? I will have to check out that armytek. I like a compact bright light. Just need something rugged. My LED lenser took a whooping.

Not sure where you are RefrgerationGuy but in the UK we have ledco(uk distributor for lenser)lenser have a 5yr guarantee,contact them,will send tail cap out for free,no questions asked of age,where bought..........

I agree with my lenser,had t7 and it took more drops than almost days in the year,from some heights too............

As suggested armytek are tough and 10yr guarantee........

I have been looking at malkoff flashlights but they don't seem to have the features I need. I like the p12 for its 4 light settings. Malkoff appear to have only high low settings. The armytek viking v2.5 xm-l2 looks pretty good for what I need. Any other suggestions?

Sorry to hear that your lights failed after a 2-feet fall. If I were you I'd get something sturdier. Not sure where you live but you can probably get a Surefire 6PX for slightly more € - or even less $. You won't get the lumens and the fancy UI of a P12 but you'll get more realiability! The problem is they don't take 18650 but if you have lifetime warranty. If on a budget you could get a Fenix TK11, you can easily find them on sale: again only 250 lumens, 2 modes, and no clip but they can take a beating.

Still, all these lights on the market today being pushed to 1000 lumens, 5 different modes, "instant" strobes, beacons, not to mention side electronic switches which are just another piece of electronics that can fail you on impact... great lights but I have the impression manufacturers are getting caught into an insane lumen race - because after all it's what make them sell more lights - rather than focusing to improve ruggedness and reliability. Just my opinion of course and you might have just had some bad luck with your P12s but in your place I wouldn't buy another P12!

shelm said:

nobody ever claimed that P12 is a robust light. companies like Foursevens and Eagletac and zebralight traditionally do not issue any ANSI FL-1 rating for drop impact resistance but they do offer 10yrs of performance guarantee. olight has 5 yrs, zebralight 1yrs.

the only company which makes robustness claims is Armytek.

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This is just not correct. I agree that Eagletac and Zebralight generally don't issue ANSI drop ratings, but MANY other companies do. Sunwayman, Nitecore, Fenix, Four Sevens, and Supbeam (off the top of my head, there are others) all state ANSI drop ratings clearly. In fact, many of them print it prominently on the outside of their packaging, so you can very easily find it among the basic specs. Output, water resistance, drop rating, range, etc. They aren't hiding it, they are making it obvious. Don't know how you can say that Armytek is the only one...Armytek's own claims often greatly exceed the ANSI ratings, but that doesn't mean that other companies don't make any claims at all.

If you bothered to look at Nitecore's own website, you would see the impact resistance clearly listed in the feature set. 1.5M. And then again in the specification chart. If that isn't a robustness claim, I don't know what is.

To answer the OP's question, stuff happens. Dropping onto a hard surface, like concrete, is a tough test. Seems like you got unlucky, is all. Might I suggest you use a lanyard? I have dropped a light only a couple times in the last year...and neither of them had a problem. But if you are dropping it regularly, onto concrete, you need to either get a super-tough light, like an Armytek or Elzetta, or you need to prevent the impact in the first place. That is what a lanyard is designed to do.

Rubber bumpers or sleeves might also do the trick. I'm looking for rubber grip rings to use on my lights for added bezel and tail end body impact reduction

thedoc007 said:

This is just not correct. I agree that Eagletac and Zebralight generally don't issue ANSI drop ratings, but MANY other companies do. Sunwayman, Nitecore, Fenix, Four Sevens, and Supbeam (off the top of my head, there are others) all state ANSI drop ratings clearly. In fact, many of them print it prominently on the outside of their packaging, so you can very easily find it among the basic specs. Output, water resistance, drop rating, range, etc. They aren't hiding it, they are making it obvious. Don't know how you can say that Armytek is the only one...Armytek's own claims often greatly exceed the ANSI ratings, but that doesn't mean that other companies don't make any claims at all.

If you bothered to look at Nitecore's own website, you would see the impact resistance clearly listed in the feature set. 1.5M. And then again in the specification chart. If that isn't a robustness claim, I don't know what is.

To answer the OP's question, stuff happens. Dropping onto a hard surface, like concrete, is a tough test. Seems like you got unlucky, is all. Might I suggest you use a lanyard? I have dropped a light only a couple times in the last year...and neither of them had a problem. But if you are dropping it regularly, onto concrete, you need to either get a super-tough light, like an Armytek or Elzetta, or you need to prevent the impact in the first place. That is what a lanyard is designed to do.

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good post, thanks.
1.5m is not an ANSI FL-1 rating. If you look this testing procedure up in the ANSI FL-1 documentation, then 1.5m is clearly stated as invalid number. It either has to be 1.0m or 2.0m or any other full meter number. Nietcore is NOT following any ANSI FL-1, which means that if they b*ll about the invalid number, they probably didn't even test it but simply wrote a "common number" (to match other manufacturer's numbers, all invalid btw) on the package. Just wrote. Not tested. Nietcore probably doesnt even know what ANSI FL-1 means, lol. I have the full documentation, PDF has some 60 pages (off the top of my ****) and costs some 60US$ shipped.
Foursevens didnt specify drop impact resistance in the past. They might have changed it and now specify it.
A robustness claim is in my terms when a manufacturer boasts with it and clearly points it out in wording as special feature. HDS does so, Armytek, Elzetta, Rayovac Indestructible. The mere (false and invalid) ANSI FL-1 pic of say "1.5m" isn't imho anything about robustness but just a quick indication that the light be as robust as most other typical China-made lights, or should be. Fenix correctly writes "1.0m" (instead of "1.5m") and it means that the light passed THE TEST, i.e. the testing procedure as suggested in the ANSI FL-1 pdf. Passing a test doesn't mean that it will pass the test repeatedly over and over again. The latter would mean robustness.
Apart from that, if you read the ANSI FL-1 PDF the section about the drop test conditions, you'll prolly lol. The conditions are vague, and for example the ground isn't specified. It says something like "drop it on company ground", without specifying what "company ground" should be: bathroom tiles? concrete? fresh soft concrete? asphalt? wood? carpet? carpet on wood floor? carpet on concrete? etc. What a joke. What a disaster. Sorry for the rant.

Most China-made lights are not designed with extra features for enhancing robustness. Eagletac T20C2 has a rubber cigar grip ring and a tail rubber piece for tail-standing. And a double spring system. Extremely effective against drops or shocks! And the flashlight head can be taped, yes, with padded tape, why not. Rubber .. i wouldn't know how to rubberize my flashlight heads. Show me, and i'll do too

In lieu of a lanyard, i'd suggest a wrist strap.

I have the P12. The cigar grip ring is plastic, the backside of the driver disc is plasticky, has no double springs, and inside the head has no extra features (like padding or potting) to enhance drop impact resistance, and costs what 35$ with coupon on taobao chinese sites? Can't expect more than that for the price paid.

I need to admit that the P12 feels good, feels robust .. but when people begin to report about 0.5m drops, cracks and failures, i will not wonder a second.

I am waiting myself for the Armytek announced SMART-series, now withdrawn

EDIT: if quoting full passages out of the ANSI FL-1 documentation is permitted by law without fear of legal infraction/infringement i will do so and type out the passages. Anyone knows??

Guys, great information. This is why I joined the forum. Thank you very much. I am starting to see why this flashlight would fail so easily. I did wonder why there are no springs for the battery. It would seem that this would provide shock protection. The other thing is if you loosen the threads just a hair, it stops making contact and turns off. My LED lenser had springs and that's probably a big reason why it lasted so many drops on concrete. I realize a lanyard would avoid most of these falls but I'm not about to use one. I am always putting my flashlight in and out of its holster and balancing on my shoulder or on another object. I use the tail cap to project light in the general area I'm working. It's really like a portable drop light without the extension cords and so on. Plus I always have it on my person. I like the 950 lumens because when I need light, it's glorious. I never use the lowest setting but I do use the other three. Both P12s appear to have failed from a crack that I noticed on the back side of the driver disk. The battery these flashlights use is heavy and I feel a simple spring would reduce this failure. This whole thing is amusing to me because at the end of the day it's just a flashlight but yet it's quite a complex tool and really requires a lot of effort through investigating and testing in order to find what you need. I will pay for a good light but I expect it to last a few years of hard use. I'm leaning towards that armytek viking v2.5 xm-l2. My only concern is its size. The p12 is quite compact for what it can do.

Shelm, what is the armytek smart series?

RefrigerationGuy said:

I'm leaning towards that armytek viking v2.5 xm-l2. My only concern is its size. The p12 is quite compact for what it can do.

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Or take a look at the Fenix PD35. Same size as the P12, but does have a spring at the head.

SMART is out of stock

http://www.armytek.com/products/flashlights/outdoor-and-camping/armytek-smart-a1-xm-l.html

shelm said:

good post, thanks.
1.5m is not an ANSI FL-1 rating. If you look this testing procedure up in the ANSI FL-1 documentation, then 1.5m is clearly stated as invalid number. It either has to be 1.0m or 2.0m or any other full meter number.

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Does ANSI FL1 state whether the device needs to be in operational state" I.e. power source in, flashlight on, impact angles, etc etc..

shelm said:

1.5m is not an ANSI FL-1 rating. If you look this testing procedure up in the ANSI FL-1 documentation, then 1.5m is clearly stated as invalid number. It either has to be 1.0m or 2.0m or any other full meter number.

A robustness claim is in my terms when a manufacturer boasts with it and clearly points it out in wording as special feature...The mere (false and invalid) ANSI FL-1 pic of say "1.5m" isn't imho anything about robustness but just a quick indication that the light be as robust as most other typical China-made lights, or should be.

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I guess we are just looking at it differently. I do insist that an ANSI FL-1 rating, prominently printed on the spec chart and the feature set, is a robustness claim. Whether or not you can actually believe the claim is a different story, and there your points are very well taken. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Exaggeration or outright lies are not out of the realm of possibility...these things have been known to happen before. And if you are correct about 1.5M being an invalid claim, that does introduces doubt as to whether or not Nitecore tested it at all. The entire reason for standards to exist is violated if companies don't understand and follow the standard.

shelm said:

Apart from that, if you read the ANSI FL-1 PDF the section about the drop test conditions, you'll prolly lol. The conditions are vague, and for example the ground isn't specified. It says something like "drop it on company ground", without specifying what "company ground" should be: bathroom tiles? concrete? fresh soft concrete? asphalt? wood? carpet? carpet on wood floor? carpet on concrete? etc. What a joke. What a disaster. Sorry for the rant.

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This is disheartening, and I can hardly blame you for the rant. At least we are learning something here! Obviously the surface is just as important as the drop height...knowing one without knowing the other renders any meaningful comparison useless.

Edit: checked Wikipedia. "Impact resistance is measured by dropping the flashlight in six different orientations and observing that it still functions and has no large cracks or breaks in it; the height used in the test is reported." So there are multiple drops - but I agree this is no guarantee that drop number seven won't be a problem. At least with water resistance, once tested, you can be fairly sure it will perform.

shelm said:

Most China-made lights are not designed with extra features for enhancing robustness. Eagletac T20C2 has a rubber cigar grip ring and a tail rubber piece for tail-standing. And a double spring system. Extremely effective against drops or shocks! And the flashlight head can be taped, yes, with padded tape, why not. Rubber .. i wouldn't know how to rubberize my flashlight heads. Show me, and i'll do too

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I think there is some sprayable rubber coating commercially available...if not, you can always get some Rhino skin

dc38 said:

Does ANSI FL1 state whether the device needs to be in operational state" I.e. power source in, flashlight on, impact angles, etc etc..

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The light is to be switched off and have battery (or batteries) installed for the drop testing. It is dropped 6 times from the designated height onto cured concrete (Shelm, you might want to check section 2.6.3). The light is oriented differently each drop to approximate a cube (i.e. bezel down, tail down, each "side" down).

In order to pass, the light must remain fully functional. Some reassembly is allowed so long as it doesn't require tools. Obviously no components can be replaced.

i don't know Rhino skin .. i'll look for it on the Amazonas

maybe a full quote is copyright so lemme censor and paraphrase to give the relevant technical bits of info:

- The "test apparatus" shall consist of an impact surface made out of cured concrete > 4cm thickness, with > 1m×1m impact area
- Lights must be dropped with all intended typical additions like batteries, elastic, tethers, lanyards, a.o.
- Lights shall be in the "off" position with batteries in place.
- Test samples must pass a drop test from a minimum of 1.0 m in order for the impact resistance claim to be made. Higher drop heights can be used for testing and product claims (like 2.0m, 10.0m, 15.0m); however, ratings in excess of 1 m shall be reported with values rounded down to the nearest whole meter.
- All five test samples must pass the rated height.
- A cube has 6 flat faces; each flashlight sample is dropped 1x time using impact orientations that approximate a cube, for a total of 6 drops in a manner that all 6 drop orientations are tested once.
- The test sample is examined after each drop and the dropped samples must not exhibit any cracks or breaks visible with normal vision.
- The product must remain fully functional. Some reassembly is allowed provided that it is done without any tool or replacement components. Cosmetic defects such as scuffs, scratches, rubs, or abrasions will not be considered reasons for failure.

Okay, my memory didn't serve me too well i guess. The ground material is specified not as "company ground" but vaguely as "cured concrete". However, nothing is said about the actual physical properties of the impact ground, e.g. its Rockwell hardness, inclination angle, degree of roughness/smoothness, surface texture, mass density, molar density, color, tint, etc

Just ask a specialist in concrete engineering or material science and he'll tell you that there are thousands of different "cured concrete" types with hundreds of differing relevant physical properties and that it really makes a difference if you use this 1m² concrete plate for your drop tests or that.

Luckily, the Chinese light makers don't fiddle with the rating much and it's become common practice to slap the same number on the retail package (1.0m, or falsely 1.2m/1.5m) which is seen typically on the competitors' packages. ANSI FL-1 demands that you do a total of 30 drops on a total of 5 brand-new samples loaded with batteries. No P12 survives, without visible cracks or breaks, such a thing: the electronics yes, but not the glass lens and the plasticky parts, after one or five 1.5m drops 100% bezel down.

The following for example is harmless, throwing a light along an asphalt-lapilli-padded inclined soft street ground at an harmless impacting angle omfg lmao:

Armytek is saying they are replacing Smart with a Model called Prime. Prime Pro is said to release approx. end of May. This is from the Armytek section on CPFmarketplace.com

The dark plastic piece inside the Nitecore P12 that prevents contact with a backwards inserted battery (reverse polarity) is very brittle. I removed mine after breaking it trying to modify it. I am wondering if RefrigerationGuy is talking about that dark plastic part. If so, it would be easy to remove it. If it is the circuit board that is cracked then...

For walking the dog, a lanyard equipped light will suffice, but if I am working, I always use a headlamp setup. The lightweight torch is mounted on the side or the top strap. It can fall off but it can be held fairly securely by the headstrap in hand as well. Springs at positive and negative end of battery seem like a good idea for the OP's use.