Not sure why it is bothering me, I said to myself that it wouldn't.

But it is now getting to me.

I been a flashlight enthusiast/ flashaholic since I was 12, I been through so many flashlights in my life. Ranging from those Eveready 2-Ds to FourSevens lights. All I ever had was AA, AAA, C and D cell lights. I was one that always argued, what if I ever need to buy some batteries at a mini-mart or grocery store, just in case, So I stuck with common batteries. But I never in the last 20 years, ever had to actually do that! Never once in my life that I thought, "Oh snaps, I forgot to charge my batteries, or bring spares or had a borrow batteries".
But one thing was for sure, I always had to bring spare batteries. Especially for my headlamps, 3 x AAA Streamlight, 1 x AA Zebralight, 1 x AA Energizer and several others. It was a big PITA to always having to have a bulk of Eneloops (or what ever rechargeable I had at the time) with me to make sure I was able to see riding my bicycle home, hiking etc... The worst is when it is very cold, raining when you need to stop in the middle of your trip to change batteries! :scowl:

At least until about year (almost 2 years?) ago, when I finally made the plunge to get a Zebralight H600w a 18650 battery along with a charger. At first I was a bit anxious, for numerous reasons. One, I wasn't sure what would happen if the battery would die when it was an emergency or if I was hiking at night and so on. After using it for while now, it has quickly become my go-to flashlight/headlamp/EDC. I even got a 17670 for my Quark, and got more 18650 batteries and even upgraded my charger. Time after time, use after use, Li-ion have not only proven its value but also exceeded all my expectations and makes my other lights feel outdated. Li-ion 18650 batteries give me more light, more run time and seem to be more reliable.

Only standard cell lights I would consider now is 4xAA now. Otherwise I am now a 18650/cr123a convert and all my lights I buy from now on. I used to be a hardcore AA/AAA/C/D battery user now I am a hardcore 18650/17670/cr123 user. With 18650 lights versus 2 and sometimes up to 4 cell AAA and AA, I don't have to change my batteries nearly as often as you do and I can carry fewer spares! That can be less weight and less bulk in my pack.

I said all that to say this, when someone asks me about my handlamp or flashlight and how I like it. I am happy to tell them about it but when they ask what battery it takes, I tell them a 18650. It is a guarantee that their knee-jerk rhetorical response will be, "Oh, that is a weird battery, what if you are in the middle of no-where and your battery dies? I prefer to stick with standard batteries just and case so if I need to run down to a 7eleven just in case"

So, I normally ignore that response because I know better, I been there, done that. but I got to get it off my chest and yes I know I am preaching to the choir here but...

Guess what people, if you have access to a 7eleven you not in the middle of no where! If you are going to go on a trip like in the middle no-where or in the back country, bring spare batteries and even a spare flashlight, you should do this anyways!!! If you are caught in any extended power outage at home, have a charger that can use an alternate power source like a car adapter or usb, you should have this planned already! You can in fact get spare 18650 batteries and carry them, so many times I hear people say that they don't want a light that has a odd battery in fear that they can't have extras! (yet they are okay to have a phone that you can't even have access to the battery which is arguably more important than a flashlight in a emergency. What if that battery dies?!)





There is another thing people say too, "When you are hiking at night with some friends or an emergency and if you do run out of battery power then your friend can't give you a spare batteries"

In my experience this will happen even with standard size batteries. One person says to the other:

Person 1 "Hey my headlamp died, can I borrow some batteries?

Person 2 "Yeah, here, some AAs"

Person 1 "Oh, mine takes AAA"

Person 2 "I don't have any of those"

This is just an example, but I hear that often enough that I never rely on someone else to have backups for me regardless how common the battery is.

Maybe I am more responsible than others, perhaps I really am a flashaholic at heart or I am just weird. But damn it, plan ahead!

Mate, I definitely agree with you. The opinions that I have received from family and friends about flashlights that used 18650 batteries are usually along the same line. Most of them seemed to think that flashlights that used AA or AAA batteries are usually more reliable as they are ubiquitous and easily bought. However, I always feel that 18650 batteries are better as they last longer, easily handled, and more cost effective in the long run. That's my personal opinion anyway. Others might feel more inclined with AA or AAA batteries. Ultimately, it's personal preference but I prefer to stick with 18650s myself.


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It cracks me up when people say 18650s are uncommon, or hard to get. Dozens of places stock them, including some local retail shops. As for ease, typically I order some online, and they show up a few days later. Can't get much easier than that.

And your point about planning is well taken. People think that in an emergency, they can just run out and grab a stockpile of AAs. But that thought is belied by real world experience...the most common battery types are often the FIRST to go out of stock, simply because so many people have devices that use them. Whereas more "exotic" batteries might still be available. In any case, depending on other people (or stores) to equip you in a emergency scenario is wishful thinking. It MIGHT happen, but you certainly can't count on it. I carry two 18650-based lights at work (since I have a daily use for them) and at least one at all times, even if I don't plan to need it. And then of course, I have a MBI HF, and a Nitecore Tube, and a Fauxton on my keychain, so even if my primary fails, I still have something to get around with.

All I needed to know was the math. Fans of AA will usually recommend Eneloop AA as the go-to main source. One 18650 has roughly the same specific energy as FOUR of those. Not only that, but the 18650 light can be smaller. And having one cell, rather than four, is superior for a variety of reasons. Cell balancing is not an issue, battery changes are quicker and easier, no worries with reverse charging, etc.

isanefried,

Here is some agreement / support for you.

1) It's good that you plan ahead. It can be frustrating when those around you aren't as responsible.
2) Per your preaching; yes, I'm sure many of us here agree with you, and have upgraded to 18650s as well.
3) Lastly, 18650s are not that uncommon. They are used in: flashlights, test equipment, long tern recording equipment, hospital equipment, and computer laptops.

there is some truth in that. if you are ready to maintain your lights and batteries like a good hobbyist/flashaholic, you will be prepared. if you are more like normal joe, they dont care about having spares at hand or available, so they GOT to go to store if the light they have been using run out of steam, this ofcourse by "suprise" because lack of care and maintenance they have given to it. and to them, it needs to be easily available battery and very cheap too. but a hobbyist will know rough state of his batteries charge when he ventures out of his house. and will not really need the over the counter batteries if things go kind of they normally do go. he has recharged the ones he uses often enough and knows where his spares are.

but i do think one needs to have spare batteries to the flashlights you yourself use. (others can care about their own lights) but i think one also needs to have more than one flashlight (one is none, two is one, three is backup) and prefer to have atleast that backup in cell type that uses the more "common" AA or AAA battery. (single cell light too, to simplify the use, dont need to find and check batteries state of charge to find matching set on that.. just use the ones you find one by one)

normally i have 2 flashlights that use the same batterytype, and one that uses different type. fourth and fifth ones i might carry are just for fun, or are spare parts for primary light, or simply just intended just for specific need/use i know to expect. so i try to choose or have with me some flashlights that are just specialists. all filling a need/niche.

i have AAA, AA and 18650 lights that i carry and use the most. (specialist batterylights like tiny keychain thingys, i have with me are basically just for kicks and hobby purposes). long time use and specialized tasks:18650, normal AA, brief small tasks: AAA or special battery types. pick right kind of "tool" for each specific task.

and btw, sometimes it makes sense to actually count how long you can shine the light with the things you have with you, the hours/days/weeks/months that you could go on might come as suprise. it has suprised me few times, and then i simply streamlined and downscaled (again) the lights and batteries i carry for them. a night/dark is only supposed to last for certain hours a day, and having something like 4 nights of full output and months of lowest mode output 24/7 with you for one days expected use is kind of overkill.

I prefer lights which use 18650 IMR batteries and yes I do bring enough spares but I do like the option to fall back on whatever battery might be in the backpack or camerabag like AA's or AAA's for my camera flash, GPS, etc when I run out of 18650s unexpectedly.

So my custom Surefire 6P with an A19 extension and a low voltage TripLED from Tana carries one 18650 and two 15mm spacers which enables me to also run it on:
- One CR123 or 16340 with two spacers
- One AA, 14500 or 18500 with one spacer
- Two AA's with the A19
- In the backpack would be a couple Oveready AAA to AA sleeves which also enables me to use one or two AAA's

I chose to standardize on AA Eneloops and AW 18650s. Why limit yourself? 18650s run high-power lights well and AAs run literally everything else in the house.

Daekar said:

I chose to standardize on AA Eneloops and AW 18650s. Why limit yourself? 18650s run high-power lights well and AAs run literally everything else in the house.

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I have done the same thing. I do have a half dozen AAA lights, and a box of alkalines left over after my son and his game controller moved out. I am slowly working my way towards a portable solar setup that can be used to recharge all my cells, as well as my tablet and phone. I have the power bank, have selected the solar cells, and have the design for a USB to 12v booster to power my Intellicharger i4. Putting the booster together should take a couple hours and about $20, and I plan on using my income tax refund to buy the solar cell, and I will be all set.

I have a few single cell 18650 lights now that I really like. Some have longer runtimes and lower output. Some have more throw and some are more floody. Some are actually pretty small. I top off the charge when they get some use and I carry a spare cell when I go out. A single 18650 in a capsule disappears in my coat pocket or backpack. Sometimes I bring along another light for different purposes. I think the single cell 18650 is a great format and there are many wonderful options out there.



I also carry a single AAA light with me. It's always in my pocket and, if I'm not using it for general tasks, it is a backup. And, being a true flashaholic, I have a little specialty (10180) light and spare cell on my key chain.

I completely agree about being prepared as well. I used to do the same thing and only buy AA-powered lights so I could use eneloops. But over time I ventured into the world of 18650-powered lights, and I don't want to go back to using eneloops for my personal lights. However, I think the AA lights are still great for family members who aren't so interested in lights and batteries. That way you don't have to worry about the batteries and they won't have too many problems.

I used to worry about not being able to find spare batteries, but now I carry a Pelican case of 18650s in my backpack every day, so that would give me plenty of juice for a long time if necessary. It's all about being prepared just like you guys have said.

thedoc007 said:

And your point about planning is well taken. People think that in an emergency, they can just run out and grab a stockpile of AAs. But that thought is belied by real world experience...the most common battery types are often the FIRST to go out of stock, simply because so many people have devices that use them. Whereas more "exotic" batteries might still be available. In any case, depending on other people (or stores) to equip you in a emergency scenario is wishful thinking. It MIGHT happen, but you certainly can't count on it. I carry two 18650-based lights at work (since I have a daily use for them) and at least one at all times, even if I don't plan to need it. And then of course, I have a MBI HF, and a Nitecore Tube, and a Fauxton on my keychain, so even if my primary fails, I still have something to get around with.

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My experience with Li-ons isn't as great as NiMHs so that would be the reason i prefer AA/AAA's versus a 18650. I'm still trying to get the hang of using that technology in proper maintenance for those batteries, while NiMHs are more robust and cheap to replace. In all i still plan on getting a 18650 powered flashlight to debunk my bad experience with Li-ons but the other reason why i prefer AA/AAA's is because they are so common. Not because if the end of the world was to happen AA/AAA's would be the first thing i'd stock up on at the store (really it would be food though lol). I EDC a 2AA Mini Maglite and work at a retail store so right off the bat i can pick up a set of Energizers (the Duracell rechargeables won't fit in the flashlight) rechargeables if the batteries in my light went dead and i needed it. I think that's the kind of scenario most AA fanatics play out in their head. Even if you were to drive somewhere or is just out and you happened to drain your set of batteries, it's easy to go to Walgreens, Target, or any gas station to pick up a set of AA batteries, alkalines work too in these types of emergencies, not just rechargeables. Even me as a green, "for a clean planet" kind of person who prefers utilizing resources wisely, in an emergency i'll take whatever is available to get the job done .

Plus you could EDC both a 18650 light and a AA light. That way double your chances for lighting survival!

I EDC an AAA and a single cell 18650. I top off the charge in the 18650 frequently (when it gets below 3.9V) so i have a fully charged cell. Li-ions don't have memory and the partial charge cycle doesn't impair the useful life (total number of complete charge cycles). My experience with 18650 has been very positive. What made your experience less than great?

I consider every light I own as a system that includes spare batteries/charger, a means to carry it, and plan to maintain it. It's one reason I avoid one-off or exotic batteries.

Otherwise, it'd be like owning a car and only getting gas when you ran out.

yoyoman said:

I EDC an AAA and a single cell 18650. I top off the charge in the 18650 frequently (when it gets below 3.9V) so i have a fully charged cell. Li-ions don't have memory and the partial charge cycle doesn't impair the useful life (total number of complete charge cycles). My experience with 18650 has been very positive. What made your experience less than great?

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Li-ons in general. 3 laptop batteries all have shortened battery life and the same for my cellphone. After reading the forums here often though and realizing that keeping Li-ons around 40-80% helps keep Li-ons happy and healthy. Before reading up on different battery technology i had always thought that draining the batteries (back during the Ni-Cad days) was the same for all batteries. As i said though whenever i get the money i'm going to get a flashlight that runs on 18650 batteries .

insanefred said:

Otherwise I am now a 18650/cr123a convert and all my lights I buy from now on. I used to be a hardcore AA/AAA/C/D battery user now I am a hardcore 18650/17670/cr123 user. With 18650 lights versus 2 and sometimes up to 4 cell AAA and AA, I don't have to change my batteries nearly as often as you do and I can carry fewer spares! That can be less weight and less bulk in my pack.

I said all that to say this, when someone asks me about my handlamp or flashlight and how I like it. I am happy to tell them about it but when they ask what battery it takes, I tell them a 18650. It is a guarantee that their knee-jerk rhetorical response will be, "Oh, that is a weird battery, what if you are in the middle of no-where and your battery dies? I prefer to stick with standard batteries just and case so if I need to run down to a 7eleven just in case"

Click to expand...

I've been wanting to respond to this thread, but didn't know what I wanted to say.

I don't know why it bothers you so much. Could it be that each time someone makes a comment like that, it reminds you that YOU ONCE THOUGHT LIKE THAT, and it bothers you because you now believe that it is foolish to think so? Who likes to be reminded that they were once a fool? Certainly not me

Now though, perhaps you can relish in the thought that you NOW HAVE WISDOM that they have yet to attain? :thumbsup: