Cr123 vs AA flashlights

Hey guys, is there any real advantage to using a AA battery flashlight apart from the availability of the battery?

Along with availability is running cost. A rechargeable AA battery vs CR123 primaries and/or rechargeables. Also pure CR123 lights tend to be more expensive out of the box.

Compare for example:

Sunwayman T16R:
Low - 10 Lumens - 60 Hours
Medium - 50 Lumens - 10 Hours
High - 180 Lumens - 2 Hours
Turbo - 380 Lumens - 3 Minutes (Automatically switches to High output after 3 min. of use)
a single CR123 primary battery: ~$1.50
$50+ out of the box


Thrunite Archer 1A:
Firefly - 0.1 lumen - 408 hours
Low - 17 lumen - 22 hours
Medium - 75 lumen - 5 hours
High - 200 lumen - 1.92 hours
a single AA primary battery: ~$0.26
$36 out of the box

I would consider an 18650 light over a 2xCR123 light 10 out of 10 times.

I you need runtime, not the lumens, AA is a must: there are Fujitsu FDK HR3U (Silver) NiMH batteries capable of 2700mAh. CR123A not even close to that capacity. And if what, there are always regular AA batteries available everywhere and cheap as dirt.

BTW, I've got Thrunite Archer 1A v3 NW, and it is perfect... Except the moment it is too short to accept protected 14500 Li-Ion batteries.

These days it seems beyond size and forum factor the pros of CR123 are getting more questionable. Lithium ion 14500 are better in terms of capacity than 16340. Lithium primary AA are just as cold resistant etc etc etc compared to CR123. Advances in LED and drivers has made any differences in terms of high output less and less.

mccraggen said:

is there any real advantage to using a AA battery flashlight apart from the availability of the battery?

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the difference depends on your choice of battery chemistry

imho the ONLY advantage of AA is the option to use rechargeable NiMh (Eneloop)

IF you compare both in Primary Lithium, the AA is 46% longer and costs 22% more.. Advantage CR123


Both are available in rechargeable LiIon,
Both are available in Primary Lithium and produce the same total power
ONLY the AA is available in rechargeable NiMh (Eneloop)
ONLY the AA is available in Alkaline

calculations base on these examples:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/energizer-l91aa.html
Energizer Ultimate Lithium L91 AA 1.5 volts 3000mah = 4500 mW $1.75, 14.5 grams, 1.99" long

http://www.batteryjunction.com/energizer-cr123a.html
Energizer Ultimate Lithium CR123 3 volts 1500mah, = 4500 mW $1.43, 16.5 grams, 1.36" long

vadimax said:

I you need runtime, not the lumens, AA is a must: there are Fujitsu FDK HR3U (Silver) NiMH batteries capable of 2700mAh. CR123A not even close to that capacity.

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I'm not familiar with those NiMh batteries. But other factors are important too, such as amp draw and if they are Low Self Discharge or not. And of course the number of duty cycles.

2000mAh Eneloops are still very good on all accounts.

But lets not forget NiMh is 1.2v

So
2000mAh @ 1.2v = 2.4wh
2700mAh @ 1.2v = 3.24wh

But a 3 volt CR123a has approx 1500mAh which gives them 4.5wh, so potentially a lot more power than an AA. Hence why most CR123a lights have higher outputs than single AA ones do.

vadimax said:

And if what, there are always regular AA batteries available everywhere and cheap as dirt.

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This might be true, but if your single AA light is a high performance light, it won't run very well or for very long on an alkaline battery.

Sorry if this is just restating, but IMHO the biggest advantage of AA over CR123 is that you can use rechargeable LSD-batteries, yet still fall back to Lithium as a safety/emergency-stack, and finally down to scavenging if you'd have to.

In other words, it's not just about availability of the battery form factor, but availability of different chemistries in that form factor. There's alkaline, lithium primaries, lithium secondaries, NiMH and LSD NiMH. There's even NiCd if you should feel like it, or LiFePo4. Each of those come with a different set of advantages and disadvantages. Sure, there's RCR123, but you don't get the same selection.

Some caveats do apply, not all lights will like the higher voltage of lithiums, some might not like the middle voltage of LiFePo4 (triggering low battery?) and so on. Basically though, you can sort of have it all. In a way. Terms and conditions apply.

I think one other advantage that I think hasn't been covered is cross compatibility of AA batteries with other devices. CR123 batteries aren't used in very many non light devices and most people who buy CR123 batteries to get a decent price order a bunch of them which typically sit and wait on very few devices while you don't have to order L91s at all and can use them in other things so having extras of these around is less of an investment.

One other advantage of AA lights is many people opt for a 2AA form factor which cancels out the voltage advantage of CR123s and offers twice the power. In order for a CR123 based light to match this you get into a 2x123 based light which requires a lot more care in battery use vs a 2AA light.

The availability of LSD Nimh and L91 Energizers tip the scales in favor of AAs. Perhaps one day Energizer's patent on the chemistry of the L91 will expire and prices will drop about 1/3 from about $2-$2.50 to $1.50 or so.

Apropros of nothing, I can get L91's (either flavor) at my local grocery store for around $1.50 each, sometimes less. And that's for a four pack, not a whole bunch at once. And these are fresh cells, not something only a few years away from their expiration date.

Chicken Drumstick said:

I'm not familiar with those NiMh batteries. But other factors are important too, such as amp draw and if they are Low Self Discharge or not. And of course the number of duty cycles.

2000mAh Eneloops are still very good on all accounts.

But lets not forget NiMh is 1.2v

So
2000mAh @ 1.2v = 2.4wh
2700mAh @ 1.2v = 3.24wh

But a 3 volt CR123a has approx 1500mAh which gives them 4.5wh, so potentially a lot more power than an AA. Hence why most CR123a lights have higher outputs than single AA ones do.

Click to expand...

L91 Energizer AA lithiums, if I remember right, have about 3000 mAh's so if you compare these to 1500 mAh CR123's Watt hrs. should be about the same (half the Voltage but double the Amp hrs. with the L91s). Still CR123's might have a small advantage in a single cell LED since they are closer to the drive Voltage of the LED, requiring less of a step up than a single AA.

When I can get 420 lumens from a 1x aa like I can from a 1x123, I'll say win goes to the aa. Right now a true 400+ is out there with scientists and engineers shotting for 600...
from a single 123.

For general purpose a 1xaa is tough to beat in terms of usefulness and cost to feed it. Availability of fuel is also a boon.

What AA is giving you 420 and does it give like 900 on a 14500??? Can I has please?

OnlyownEnergizer250lumen said:

What AA is giving you 420 and does it give like 900 on a 14500??? Can I has please?

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I stated "when a 1xaa can do that"... a 1x123 can, but to my knowledge no 1aa comes close.

bykfixer said:

When I can get 420 lumens from a 1x aa like I can from a 1x123, I'll say win goes to the aa. Right now a true 400+ is out there with scientists and engineers shotting for 600...
from a single 123.

Click to expand...

Zebralight SC5
Zebralight SC5w

Links only for proof of 500+ lumen specs on AA, these beauties live on backorder at the manufacturer, but are still in stock at some trusted resellers (such as Night Owl Gear <3 <3 <3 )

Eneloop AA FTW!!

chillinn said:

Zebralight SC5
Zebralight SC5w

Links only for proof of 500+ lumen specs on AA, these beauties live on backorder at the manufacturer, but are still in stock at some trusted resellers (such as Night Owl Gear <3 <3 <3 )

Eneloop AA FTW!!

Click to expand...

500 aye? How long?

The PR-1 stays at 420. No step down.

bykfixer said:

500 aye? How long?

The PR-1 stays at 420. No step down.

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420 aye? Is that constant brightness? If so, how long before it runs out of regulation and begins to dim? Immediately?

Besides, you did not specify no stepdowns. No takesy backsies... AA wins.

Oh, so step down counts, huh?

I have no idea how long the PR-1 will hold out on a cell, but do know when you turn it on high it runs on high until you switch to medium or the cell cannot put out 420 lumens anymore.

To me if it says 150 lumens that means 150 lumens until the battery can no longer drive 150 lumens. This whole 150 lumens until some switch puts it into a lower mode...
To me that means it is not a true number, but is capable of reaching said number temporarily.

Others may see it different.

Constant brightness, as a feature, is highly desired. Most flashlights, traditionally but also today, will begin dimming from their max brightness as soon as you turn them on, as the battery voltage drops, so do the lumens. If not specified, you can assume a light is not constant brightness. Without seeing a selfbuilt review on the light mentioned, I wouldn't hazard a guess. I do know from experience that the SC5w stays at 500lm until it steps down in a few minutes. After step down, the user can immediately put it back into turbo, and it is again 500lm until step down. It can handle at least several cycles like that on an eneloop pro before the voltage is too low for it to remain in regulation for 3 minutes, then the step down will occur in less than three minutes. But the light doesn't dim no matter how much voltage you have. It will even step down in lower modes once the voltage drops below 1V, but again, even at its dimmer level, the light will stay at a constant brightness and will not dim. As far as I have seen here and anywhere, the SC5 series are state of the art for flashlights, because of its max brightness, but also because of its constant brightness. Lights that dim with voltage drops do so sometimes slow enough that the user won't recognize the dimming until it gets very dim. When using rechargeable Li-ion this is problematic if the voltage drops much below 3V, as many are aware allowing the voltage to go low can damage the cell.

There are some advantages that didn't exist a few years ago.LSD NiMH are,like some others have said the biggest advantage IMHO.Quite a few CR123 and AA lights can use li-ion but they require a bit more attention than NiMH.AA does offer the widest variety of battery types alkaline,lithium,NiMH and for many lights li-ion and even 3V lithium primaries. AA also offers a common battery source for other devices. I have been trying to pick up some AA lights that are similar to my CR123 lights as back-ups not knowing how battery supplies will be down the road but for me CR123 still wins out most of the time. I have had good fortune ordering CR123s online and AA just can't compete with CR123 in compact size for single cell and 2 cell lights.

Selfbuilt also measured the SC5's turbo at higher than the manufacturer spec. It's an incredible light, though it can't take 14500 at all.
I really like the versatility of the 1xAA format and quality budget options. Small CR123A lights like the Olight S1 are impressive in their own way though.