Peter, please tell us about the 4x's super LED

Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

I, like many others on the CPF, am attempting to make up my mind whether I want to spend the time and money trying to get one of the next to be announced ARC 4x.

Obviously, there is some great mystery surrounding the new super LED that would justify all the fuss and costs. I think that as wise consumers, we need to know what we are buying rather than going in with simple raw emotions.

Peter, you have always been forward with us on your products. Please enlighten us with the specific details of the ARC 4x.

Are there others out in CPF land with the same thoughts? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Same thoughts here...
When the Arc4x gets above the range of an Arc5 or Surefire U2 (variable intensity controlled 5 watt) it causes one to ponder.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

i just want to know if my guess is corect lol

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

I'm no expert in the field of electronics or anything else like that. All I can say is the only difference I see between the Arc4 and the Arc4x is the X is brighter. From the non-technical aspect that I have, it looks like the same light that has more juice flowing to the LED, period.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

iirc the 4x just has a rare freak luxeon that is a very rare overachiever.a maybe 1 in 5000 or so.
the good side of the luxeon lottery.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

If it is a lux I, then it probably is better than R bin since those have been out for a while.

I would suspect that if it is a lux III, there would be a physical difference that Nascar could tell by visual examination. Since he stated that there was no discernable difference between the + and x, I would say that the 4x has a higher than R bin emitter?

All speculation of course. Peter please correct me.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

It's pointless to speculate on what the LED is. Peter, obviously knows what LED it is. I think we all are not only curious what the LED is, but also why you're not divulging to us what it is. We're not asking for the source. We're just interested to know if it's a 1-watt and what bin, or is it a LuxIII and what bin, etc.? For $275, i hope we'll get a reasonable response. You've always been very open and professional about this and i look forward to an appropriate response.

I thank you in advance.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Since the 4x is already in the hands of CPFers, it should not be a secret any more about the LED. Someone out there will let the masses know exactly what type of LED is behind that lens.

It would make it a lot easier on all of us if Peter would just share with us this information rather than someone disassembling their 4x.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

[ QUOTE ]
this_is_nascar said:
I'm no expert in the field of electronics or anything else like that. All I can say is the only difference I see between the Arc4 and the Arc4x is the X is brighter. From the non-technical aspect that I have, it looks like the same light that has more juice flowing to the LED, period.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The color of my X seems the same as my 4+. The X is just brighter.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Disassembly of the light to try to reveal the type of LED (bin, LuxIII or 1W) will not tell you anything.

Suppose Peter said it was a P flux 1W that he used. Would you guys return the light because it was not an R 1W or T flux LuxIII? Of course not. Knowing the type of LED used in the X is of no value other than the knowledge itself which is intrinsically useless. The fact it made the X designation does not materially affect the type of LED in there. Granted, it's human nature to be curious but I believe that revealing the type of LED used will just be a letdown for some. Now, go enjoy your Ar4X and forget about P,Q,R, XYZ etc.

OK, OK, I may not be getting the point across. A little bird told me Gransee used N flux 1W high dome LED's in the Arc4x. Therefore, I'll offer anyone with the Arc4x $100 to take the light with the substandard LED off their hands. No need to thank me, I'm doing this as a favor /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CM

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Ahahahaha CM...

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Heheh, good one, CM!

Guys, just rest assured that if you're going to spend the money for the 4x, you're going to get a light with an emitter that is brighter than a regular Q...and not just a little brighter. These suckers are bright, aren't they?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It probably won't make a whole lot of difference in real world use. A regular 4+ or 4 should do just fine....

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

I will top CM's offer.

$101.

How about it Nascar, this amount is more than you would ask for when you dump the 4x for the new 4x.1.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Nascar must have three of the four trying to decide which one to keep hehe. I outbid MY--$110.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Nope, just the one Arc4x. It would be interesting to see the variances between a few different units.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Again, light output is based on the WATTS you put in.

Watts = Voltage * Current

If you increase current, the Watts goes up.

If you increase voltage, the Watts goes up.

If you choose a higher forward voltage binned LED (Vf), then the amount of Voltage is higher at the same current
level, and you again have more WATTS.

Thats why if you use constant current supplies, and you
stick in a higher Vf Luxeon, your flashlight is brighter,
because you consume more WATTS. You'll also note your
runtime drops.

Otherwise, your runtime would be *EXACTLY* the same, if you had the same current and same Vf binned LED, but you'd get more light out with the same run time with a more efficient LED.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

TIN's chart was edited, comment deleted.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

I'm hoping my next test will shed some more light on the effeciency questions. I'll be taking the Arc4x and run it thru on Level-3. Level-3 seems to be the closest to my Arc4+ in initial brightness.

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

[ QUOTE ]
Jarhead said:
Thats why if you use constant current supplies, and you
stick in a higher Vf Luxeon, your flashlight is brighter,
because you consume more WATTS. You'll also note your
runtime drops.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am not an expert on this, but I suspect that there is more than meets the eye here. It has been a loooong time since I took my solid-state class, but LED's are quantum devices. I think that each photon is emitted as a result of a "recombination" near the PN junction. In N-type material, the majority carriers are electrons, while in P-type material the majority carriers are "holes" (a missing electron). When a hole meets an electron, a photon is created.


This should be independent of the forward voltage, but then again the forward voltage might affect the recombination rate. Does anybody know???

Is any light emitted outside of the depletion region???

Re: Peter, please tell us about the 4x\'s super LED

Jarhead- (Perfect name)

You condradict yourself:

"Otherwise, your runtime would be *EXACTLY* the same, if you had the same current and same Vf binned LED, but you'd get more light out with the same run time with a more efficient LED."

"Note how in TIN's plots, on the special ARC4, how the runtime drops with the higher light level. It is NOT more efficient. There is more WATTs being drawn by the LED and the run time is SHORTER.
Sorry folks, ain't nothing special here.

In the ARC LSH series the premium is brighter than the standard. Both use the same circuit, the only difference is the LED. Wouldn't you say that the LED in the P is more efficient than the one used in the ST?

Comparing apples to apples, if two LEDs are powered the same and one is brighter than the other, it is more efficient. If two LEDs are independently powered (using the same 123 cells) to produce the same output and one runs longer than the other, the longer running one is more efficient. That's not rocket science, just common sense.

I'll go out on a limb and say that in THIS APPLICATION (ARC 4) a LEDs ability for it to produce more light also means that it is a more efficient LED.

TINs run time chart shows the comparative performance of the light, not the efficiency. You have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges and that hasn't been done yet.

The LED used in the 4x is more efficient than the one in the 4+.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.