Shouldn't tactical lights be non-slippery?

river251 · Jan 8, 2017

I have a Fenix E21 and Olight T-25. The knurling on the Fenix covers almost the whole body, and is very "grippy" but the Olight has practically no knurling and that which it has is about as slippery as the smooth parts. I just received a Thrunight T10. It's really slippery, no knurling except about an inch and the knurling is not grippy at all, very slippery all around. I can use it but it does not have the sure feel of the Fenix.

The knurling on the 10 year old Fenix is a true diamond checkering. The groove lines themselves are V-shaped and form diamonds where they intersect. This checkering consists of sharply pointed diamonds with the point on top of the diamond that gives a good grip.

The knurling on the Olight and Thrunight are square and diamond shapes defined by grooves but the grooves just outline the shapes, which are flat on top, thus barely better than nothing. Or I see the Thrunight has micro grooves cut laterally on the tops but it doesn't help IMO.

The satiny aluminum surface is about the slipperiest metal surface I can imagine. If it's 10 degrees out in the desert dryness I would think it hard to hold the Olight or small T10 while working on something without it slipping around. Slipperiness seems like the last thing you'd want on a tactical (or any) light. Especially the small ones. I wonder if other people think this is an obvious issue with today's lights?

The Fenix also has a great rubber clicky that protrudes out, and is not blocked by modern tabs that allow tail standing. On the T10 the tabs make the clicky hard to press by comparison, esp. if the tabs are under my thumb. Seems like "tactical" means instantly and easily reliable in tough situations, and I think the Fenix is a great (but long gone) example of that.

Just saying.....

Jim

adnj · Jan 9, 2017

I would never buy a light that is slippery and difficult to use in any high stress situation. While camping in the tropics last week, I was regularly bathed in sweat and rain while humping gear through the mountains. Your heart is pounding and you're trying to catch your breath. It was difficult to focus sometimes. Fatigue and stress will cause you to just drop stuff during use.

bykfixer · Jan 9, 2017

I think the lines have been erased between tactical lights, duty lights and tacti-cool lights.

I don't see it as a big deal that a wrist lanyard can't solve. But yeah, I see your point. Some would consider a tactical light as one with max grippy surfaces on the barrel. Or at least channels and grooves like the Elzetta and SureFire bodies. Flat spots help as well.

Good machining also helps. There are many that don't come out of the lathe very truely machined so a lot of polishing and/or thicker coating is required to remedy the blemishes. Many high volume, low priced lights are plagued with that, you just don't see it due to all of the "finish" work that took place.

It's little things like that why some lights cost more.

markr6 · Jan 9, 2017

I like cigar grips for this reason. Even when you're not holding it with 3 fingers like a cigar, the rubber ring give you plenty to keep it from slipping.

Malkoff fans will destroy me for saying it, but my MD2 is a like holding a popsicle. Sure I can add some type of grip, but I hate doing that...looks/feels trashy especially on an expensive light. I'm not saying it is or isn't a "tactical" or tacticool light, but it is cool...and shines light with plenty of tact.

mckeand13 · Jan 9, 2017

bykfixer said:
I think the lines have been erased between tactical lights, duty lights and tacti-cool lights.

Perhaps by the "tactical" lights sold on infomercials and at Walmart for 2/$19.99 plus shipping?

bykfixer · Jan 9, 2017

markr6 said:
I like cigar grips for this reason. Even when you're not holding it with 3 fingers like a cigar, the rubber ring give you plenty to keep it from slipping.

Malkoff fans will destroy me for saying it, but my MD2 is a like holding a popsicle. Sure I can add some type of grip, but I hate doing that...looks/feels trashy especially on an expensive light. I'm not saying it is or isn't a "tactical" or tacticool light, but it is cool...and shines light with plenty of tact.

Cannot speak for others but I consider Malkoffs to be duty lights. Although I don't use holsters I've talked to LEO's who say "smooth is better for quick deploy from holsters". But again, my MD2's have wrist lanyards.

mckeand13 said:
Perhaps by the "tactical" lights sold on infomercials and at Walmart for 2/$19.99 plus shipping?

Yeah those too.

lightfooted · Jan 9, 2017

BlackRiverRider said:
I have a Fenix E21 and Olight T-25. The knurling on the Fenix covers almost the whole body, and is very "grippy" but the Olight has practically no knurling and that which it has is about as slippery as the smooth parts. I just received a Thrunight T10. It's really slippery, no knurling except about an inch and the knurling is not grippy at all, very slippery all around. I can use it but it does not have the sure feel of the Fenix.

The knurling on the 10 year old Fenix is a true diamond checkering. The groove lines themselves are V-shaped and form diamonds where they intersect. This checkering consists of sharply pointed diamonds with the point on top of the diamond that gives a good grip.

The knurling on the Olight and Thrunight are square and diamond shapes defined by grooves but the grooves just outline the shapes, which are flat on top, thus barely better than nothing. Or I see the Thrunight has micro grooves cut laterally on the tops but it doesn't help IMO.

The satiny aluminum surface is about the slipperiest metal surface I can imagine. If it's 10 degrees out in the desert dryness I would think it hard to hold the Olight or small T10 while working on something without it slipping around. Slipperiness seems like the last thing you'd want on a tactical (or any) light. Especially the small ones. I wonder if other people think this is an obvious issue with today's lights?

The Fenix also has a great rubber clicky that protrudes out, and is not blocked by modern tabs that allow tail standing. On the T10 the tabs make the clicky hard to press by comparison, esp. if the tabs are under my thumb. Seems like "tactical" means instantly and easily reliable in tough situations, and I think the Fenix is a great (but long gone) example of that.

Just saying.....

Jim

I agree Jim, a light that is going to see use in a tactical situation SHOULD be "non-slippery". I guess it could be argued effectively that many of the lights labeled as such are not truly tactical tools, I know I could. I have passed on to others the lights that did not have a suitable grippiness to them.

Nowadays I stick to my Surefires, Olights (the bigger, more tactical ones) and Eagletacs for grippy goodness. Though the Eagtac isn't as grippy in one direction, I did manage my own solution for it. Sometimes it's not absolutely needed to have knurling like a heavy file on the light if it has other means to hold onto it that don't get pulled off or removed. My Nitecore P20UV for example: It has worthless knurling on it, the cuts are shallow and the surface is flat. I'm not even sure how this is called knurling but with the steps in the body that keep the clip in place at either end of the light on top of the various mating points of the parts it has a very easy to hold body and the only thing I need to keep it from slipping is a one inch o-ring just above the tailcap separation. Sometimes I will put the combat ring on for added grip.

LeanBurn · Jan 9, 2017

Nothing about the ThruNite T10, not its looks, operation nor product description says its tactical. Not sure why you thought it would be.

The ThruNite Archer would be a better tactically usable light.

fivemega · Jan 12, 2017

BlackRiverRider said:
Shouldn't tactical lights be non-slippery?

It should but aggressive knurling flashlights are harder to remove from holster when you need it right away.

Dr Forinor · Jan 12, 2017

markr6 said:
Malkoff fans will destroy me for saying it, but my MD2 is a like holding a popsicle. Sure I can add some type of grip, but I hate doing that...looks/feels trashy especially on an expensive light. I'm not saying it is or isn't a "tactical" or tacticool light, but it is cool...and shines light with plenty of tact.

I LOVE my Malkoff, but I too found it really slippery, which was putting me off using it. So my fix? Sugru. MILES better now, and it's the first light I reach for!

Might be a decent addition to any flashlight requiring some extra purchase on the body. I've applied it to my EagleTac D25C Ti also, some may say it's ruining the looks but I say it improves the functionality.

bykfixer · Jan 12, 2017

If it works for you Doc... teee-riffic. If it saves you or your family... who cares what others think, right?

Folks trained with a particular light, weapon and other tools get used to the grip vs slip and in many cases prefer to use only one type of texture. Say they are used to the SureFire way and somebody hands 'em a Powertac Warrior... it's like handing them a rubber grip'd 38 vs their typical wood handled daily. Others get handed the wood handled daily and "DOH! Droppsies"... it just depends on tastes, and familiarity.
Tactical lights were designed around tacticians... we just get to play with 'em too.

Dr Forinor · Jan 12, 2017

bykfixer said:
If it works for you Doc... teee-riffic. If it saves you or your family... who cares what others think, right?

Spot on, my friend.

Swedpat · Jan 12, 2017

I hate slippery lights. In my opinion all lights should have a pretty aggressive knurling. One exception is with cigarrstyle design lights(like you markr6 says) with rubber ring/edge. An example is Surefire Z2 Combatlight, very good hold.
A good alternative to knurling is the matt anti-slip surface of Armytek lights(wish more brands offered it). Otherwise I want an aggresive knurling. It really sucks when a light slips away in the hand when I push the tail switch! Apart from when a light slips away from the fingers and I drop it...

etc · Jan 12, 2017

markr6 said:
I like cigar grips for this reason. Even when you're not holding it with 3 fingers like a cigar, the rubber ring give you plenty to keep it from slipping.

Malkoff fans will destroy me for saying it, but my MD2 is a like holding a popsicle. Sure I can add some type of grip, but I hate doing that...looks/feels trashy especially on an expensive light. I'm not saying it is or isn't a "tactical" or tacticool light, but it is cool...and shines light with plenty of tact.

Malkoff fans will not destroy you, I am a big fan but admit my MD4 with HD XML has a terrible grip. Sorely needs to be improved.

The old Leef was better. Current FiveMega is ok also through can be even more aggressive IMO. But yeah, too aggressive of a knurling can destroy a holster, I suppose.

I added a bicycle rubber grip on top of it to make it much better. Size wise it actually makes sense. Plus that huge cliky tailcap.

etc · Jan 12, 2017

fivemega said:
It should but aggressive knurling flashlights are harder to remove from holster when you need it right away.

The other side of the coin, you grip them better with more aggressive knurling. Which means easier to pull out.

etc · Jan 12, 2017

Polymer lights like Surefire G2x are the best ones to grip, they stick to your hand. But of course G2x can be further improved. nitrolon sticks to your hand better than metal IMO.

Bicycle rubber grip add-on is the best you can think of but it increases the diameter vastly and doesn't look good on anything but a 2x18650 light IMO such as Hound Dog or Wildcat.

AVService · Jan 12, 2017

It is pretty simple to use bike inner tube around a too slick light to fix that problem but then the light will not want to come out of a holster either.
Some moddle ground and/or understanding of your own needs should be something to consider before buying a light if you know you will want it to be grippy.

The PK lights are the opposite of slick in my experience with them but the knurling is so well machined that it is great looking too!
Even the little baby model which may be too small to matter has amazing surface texture but then why wouldn't it considering the designer?!

mickb · Jan 17, 2017

I think flashaholics are being a little too tacti-cool on the subject myself. I used lights in the army, contracting, and hunting for about 25 years and never had a problem with modest body design or slipperiness.

I think past a point body design becomes like toothbrush marketing. Crazier and crazier shapes and whistles backed with conversations on how 'necessary' they are for consumers.

Tactical use varies by industry but specifically military or long term field there are several points against excess styling/knurling on any equipment(unless it helps with heat dissapation etc).It attracts more dirt, muck, moisture. Makes it harder to keep clean(significant part of a soldiers routine) and you will lose the protecting coatings cleaning over these areas quicker than the rest of the item.. Complex bodyshapes do not stack as well for storage, they may require over large holsters or holding apparatus, the basic cylinder is still the easiest object to contain and withdraw quickly, complex bodies are more difficult to field repair/panel beat into respectable appearance. I would take a malkoff shape any day over something that looks like optimus primes left leg.

bykfixer · Jan 17, 2017

^^ thank you for that explanation.

Question:
What do you do to 'hang on' to your light with say... wet hands, or in faced paced tactical situations mick?

mickb · Jan 17, 2017

Bykfixer I guess the fastest pace scenarios it is weapon mounted. Less than that it just needs to be brought into use quickly, held securely and pointed but I don't see it needing the same sort of grip as hand tools, knives, batons etc which are meant to be swung or applied with force and velocity. Unless its purpose is for bludgeoning etc. For my own use i have used L shaped knurless metal body lights during army service for nightly tasks under red and white light, Dcell and maglight clones smooth or otherwise, P7 led lensers, hand held hunting spotlights in the tropics, and since I have been here high end 18650 LED's. I don't remember wishing I had better grip on any of them.

That's just me, you might get 10 cops here or 50 military guys over on AR15.com disagree. One thing I think is tactical is as usual too broad a term on the forums. There is a difference between a weapon mounted light, police general street use and searches, clearing rooms with pistols and light held, military use( which involves a lot more mundane logistics/long term forethought as above) or Swat/doorkicking stuff and it all may need a different tool.

I can see scenarios extra grip would come in very handy but I am thinking more industrial use. eg heavy search lights, fisherman on decks checking nets with slimy hands, repairmen covered in grease etc

Shouldn't tactical lights be non-slippery?

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