Output vs. Thow

Is it better to have a light with a higher output and a lesser throw or a greater throw and a lesser output? Like the lines on that chart at flashlightreviews.com (the one by Quickbeam)

How would you compare the Pelican M6 against a Surefire G2 for instance?

What exactly IS the "throw"?

EDIT: Also, has anyone here used the ptec surge? From the looks of it, this light has better ouput then both the others, anyone use it?

Throw vs Output - think laser pointer vs flourescent strip light.

Only you can answer your first question. It's really a matter of personal preference, your budget, and the job at hand.

Throw is a term used to describe how far the beam of a flashlight is visible, and a light with good throw is usually characterized by a tight hotspot with little or no sidespill. As the cone of light coming out the bezel expands, the tight hotspot ends up being the only part visible from far away. Throw tends to also be a funcion of the light meter reading at the hotspot. The higher the rating, the longer throwing the light is (generally). Throw is what you use to light up that house across the street, or that cat three houses down. Lights with too much throw are often not good for walking around with, since they only illuminate a small area nearby and are often lacking in sufficient sidespill.

When talking about these things, though, it's very easy to get carried away with numbers and statistics. Remember that your eye is not very good at comparing brightnesses, and that such things are usually done on a logarithmic scale anyway. It's really quite hard for most people to tell the difference between the P60 (65 Lumens) and the P61 (120 Lumens) unless you compare them side by side, and even then, the latter doesn't really look "twice as bright".

I would say that the PM6 has quite a bit more throw than the G2, but that the G2's hotspot and spill are better for most applications. When comparing lights like that, it's really best (if possible) to get both and handle them, comparing their other attributes as well. Since they are so similar in terms of light output and throw, you should really end up making your decision on questions such as:
Which switch do you like the feel of better?
Are you willing to put up with the much heavier pelican for the small additional throw?
Which is more likely to show wear first; which is more durable?
How do the prices compare?
Is one light more readily available than the other?
How do the warranties and customer service compare?

Of course, some of us are into it purely for the numbers, and get the biggest thrill out of the highest lux reading, but if you're looking for utility, the best way to make up your mind on similar lights is to compare them in person. Don't let statistics and numbers overshadow the often more important aspects.

Hello UExplorer,

Welcome to CPF.

Others have posted excellent information that I agree with.

The best way to understand Doug's (Quickbeam) charts is to compare them with lights you already have. He has some common lights listed and you can get a feel for the numbers from them.

The choice of a Pelican M6, SureFire G2, and PT Surge is going to be a little harder. My advice is to get all three (did I mention that I am a Flashaholic?). Try them out and see what you like and don't like about them. If you find a favorite, keep it and list the others on Buy/Sell/Trade. You may come out a few dollars short, but the information you get will be worth it.

I would also suggest you do a search on these three lights. There has been a lot of information discussed here on these lights. This may help you understand the lights better. By the way, you don't have to buy all three at once. Pick the one you think is the best and get it. The others can follow later.

Good luck.

Tom

You really cant have the best of both worlds.
Choose a light that beast meats your needs.

This will help.... ALOT!
Quickbeams Throw vs. Output Chart

I just want to reitterate my warnings against spending too much time looking at charts and numbers... find the light that fits your style, feels ergonomically nice, and seems to meet your durability needs. The numberical output is often not your best measure for judging a light for your needs...

[ QUOTE ]
The numberical output is often not your best measure for judging a light for your needs...

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. The charts I provide are but a portion of the information you should look at when considering a purchase. Be sure to read reviews. Not just mine, but those of others posted here on CPF and the reviewers' websites.

i kinda prefare throw just like lighting stuff up that very far away,this is a intersting thread

This thread confused me at first. Output and Throw aren't different ends of a spectrum. The initial post makes it seem like there is some negative relationship between output and throw. Quickbeam is correct to point out on his website "DO NOT COMPARE RED TO BLUE - THEY USE DIFFERENT SCALES."

BUT, if we DID want to be able to integrate RED (Relative throw) and BLUE (Relative overall output), you could divide RED/BLUE. This would yield a value of the collimating characterstics for that flashlight. This is theoretical of course, as some simple math of the 4DMag and 3DMag RED/BLUE ratio shows 2.76 and 3.64 respectively. These SHOULD be equal, because they have the exact same collimating characterstics. I think the problem is that the RED is an extrapolated value from a 1m lux reading of peak beam candlepower. At just 1m it is hard to determine if both Mags have been focused to the same degree. If the RED could be measured at a further but reasonable distance, something like 10m, where the light that is measured is more likely to be travelling in a parallel more truly collimated beam, then a RED/BLUE ratio might be able to be proved to be identical for the same collimator. Then we could rate collimators for all flashlights in this same way. Does this make sense to anyone or did I eat too much Taco Bell Fire sauce tonight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Hello Soloco,

Watch out for the fire sauce...

I believe the 30% difference you noticed is because of the bulb. I have noticed a lot of difference in beam characteristics in Mag bulbs.

I also use a ratio of spot to spill when evaluating lights. I like ones that are around 1.5.

The "standard" for measuring lux is 1 meter. I believe Doug is correct in measuring using a known standard. I have taken measurements at different distances and come up with very similar numbers to those take at 1 meter. The math is also easier at 1 meter. The distance (in meters) down to 1 lux is found by taking the square root of the lux reading at 1 meter.

I believe beam collimation is at its greatest at the lens of the light. At greater distances the beam gets mixed up do to reflection, dispersion, and imperfections in reflector and bulb.

Tom

I guess I'm more worried that some lux readings for adjustable focus lights may be higher than true focus if the light is focused to converge at exactly 1m. This would be much brighter than if the bulb were at the real focus of the parabola.

Hello Soloco,

Interesting thought.

I believe it was Darell that mentioned the focusable lights are really misnamed. There is only on focus position, from there the adjustable lights allow you to unfocus them a varying amount.

This prompted me to do some testing. I found that if you focus the light at 6 inches, it is good to at least 30 feet. I tried this on several Mag lights and found it to be true for all of them. I did this in two ways. The first was by looking at the beam and getting the tightest beam at 6 inches, then shining it across the house and trying to improve the spot. The second way was to use a light meter. I set the tightest focus (highest reading) at 1 foot, then took a reading at 30 feet. I then tried different focuses in an attempt to get a higher reading and was unsuccessful.

I observed similar results on my three Mag lights, 2 AA Mini Mag, 2D, and 3D.

I would go out on a limb here and say that this should hold true for other types of lights, but I have not tested them.

Have you come up with different results?

Tom

I have nothing scientific evidence, but with my higher powered Magmod lights (500+ lumens) I would focus it indoors at about 20 feet. Then I would go outside. When shined into the sky, I could tell that the beam is actually converging at some point. I would have to refocus watching the mist in the night sky until a perfectly straight beam was achieved.

Hello Soloco,

That is very interesting.

I am going to have to try that. I'll try it in a foggy night because my lights are no where close to 500 lumens.

I still think my basic premise holds true, but there may be something else going on. It is also possible that at greater distances something else happens. My testing was only done out to 30 feet.

Tom

I have a couple of lights that will touch the fieldhouse on the High School field at the end of my block. At LEAST 225-250 feet away.

I have numerous lights that will light up part of up to the whole house about 75 feet away. Or light the whole tree just a smidgen farther away.

I like the ones that light the whole house/tree the best. I guess these lights 'throw' a flood beam?

I think it is FANTASTIC that we can discuss such things here, and for the most part it doesn't deteriorate into a shouting match!

Long throw lights? Poowy on them...even my little sister has a Maxbeam Q Super Throw Light (plugs into the car too). Cool flashlights throw a wide bright short range beam. The folks who like long range ones...let em visit my sister. LOL

Ken

Soloco,

Nice idea about throw/output, seems like they should be the same (same reflector and nearly identical bulbs). I think the difference is just a little testing variance since 2.8 and 3.6 are probably closer than they seem, especially at that range of tight focusing. Simply the bulb being a little off would throw the numbers out of line.

I'm glad this isn't a shouting match. Personally, I like them both (throw and spill), and thus aircraft landing lights really serve a nice purpose here.

Its all only relevent to how far away do you NEED to see what you are doing. That is why there is no perfect or universal light. A 10 lux LED cuts for me up close (2 foot)to work on small things. But I have crappy night vision so 3200 lux does me fine outside at night to 1000 foot or so(X990 HID). Its all Subjective. That bright light(X990) is useless for up close.
NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
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Hello Nikola,

I am afraid I disagree with you.

The 990 works great up close, you just bounce it off of something... If you are inside, just put it in the next room. If you are outside, just bounce it off of a tree, or the clouds...

Tom