Slate roof repair, condo101 continued

Hi,

Thanks for advice on heat pumps. Another issue. The condo I am considering is at the top level of a brick building which has a slate roof. While initially viewing, owner slowed me spackling on the ceiling where the roof had leaked but for whatever reason he recently had repaired himself rather then going thru the condo association. Upon house inspection, inspector showed a tiny spot next to the spackling that he said was wet and indicated a probable leak still. It was tiny and we had horrendous rains over the previous weekend. I go to call the condo association management company today only to find out that over the weekend, the board of directors changed management to a new company. I called new company who informed me that in initial walkaround, they did observe suspicious activity on the roof but it would be a week to ten days before someone could go up and take a look at it to make an assessment as to the damage.

Should this be a showstopper for me? I have to sign the purchase and sales agreement by Monday. I have asked my agent to ask the seller for an extension until after inspection but I have a feeling he will say no because he had a hard time with a previous party he gave an extension to. Any slate roof experts out there? What are the chances, it would require major repair that would require an assessment on the condo fees? A co-worker says slate roofs last forever, they just need repair and to have the slates moved around periodically but it is evidently bad enough so that they can see damage from the ground. I do like the place. It is a converted 1900 school house and has character. Most of what I have looked at in my price range are just part of big apartment complexes that were relabeled in name only, condos. Thanks again for any advice.

You are welcome to PM me for more info. I'm no slate-roof expert but I do have a house with a slate roof that I've had repaired extensively. And it's in Massachusetts too.

The "it lasts forever" bit is sorta bunk, as you can tell from your co-worker's correct assertion. Sure, most of each of the slate tiles last a hugely long time but the maintenance repairs will cost you a bunch and sometimes the tile replacement requires pulling off a bunch of a section.

My slate roof tiles are the usual grey slate things you see on houses and also public buildings. (As opposed to, say, the smaller and thicker black slate.)

My house is about 100 yrs old and the roof has quite a steep pitch. It's a Sears & Roebuck (yes, Sears it's in the 1909 catalog) kit house so there are probably zillions in the West & midwest that are similar but not many around here. It's a gable roof with a single, double-window dormer on each of the 4 sides. The previous owner said he did a bunch of roof repair too but that seems to have started more problems than it solved. The roof is super high and no tree branches or anything fall onto it. It's about 1/2mi from the ocean. I don't know if that has anything to do with longevity but I thought I'd mention it.

I have a 3 yr old separate garage that I wanted a slate roof on to match the house. Because of the tile color matching and quality trouble I decided to put on one of those Certainteed "architectural" (read: thicker-than-normal) tar shingle type. I'm not too happy with the look but the garage is relatively far from the house and neighbors, passers-by, friends, everyone else says it looks great and some thought it was slate. Duh, say I. Seems pretty obvious to me, but I sure prefer the price and there aren't any tiles cracking & falling off each winter.

When I moved into my house in about 1998 the roof needed lots of repair immediately. The problem was that lots of the tiles were broken, some probably from being walked on while the previous owner had the copper work replaced. Slate is relatively fragile and I've had 3 roofing companies tell me it can be walked on gently but only by a roofer who knows slate. These were all broken up along every seam.

I had about 1/2 of my roof tiles replaced and it required removing all of the roof. After that initial huge expense it has been an annual thing of seeing a few ones crack maybe only 1% and a couple large pieces come to the ground. Some small repairs can be done without removing large sections but it seems like in another 5 years I'm going to need some more major repairs again. BTW I have 2 types of snowstoppers and neither the pigtails nor the szelinsky (spel?) type stay in, each for their own reason. The pigtails seem like a bad hook design. The more sturdy szelinksky ones are too good at stopping the snow and seem to cause the tile to crack as they hold back so much weight. So those are I dunno like $35 each and you gotta use a zillion to stop the snow in a section (I don't want an avalanche falling on me while I grill on the porch) and sometimes they actually cause the tiles to break. Oh well. I don't have those things all around the roof just in a few places trying to keep from being hit by avalanches of snow.

My roof work may be an anomoly too. I wasn't particularly happy with the contractor who did the work. I had chosen a reputable firm but unknown to me they subcontracted my work to a group I wouldn't have chosen. I was travelling nearly 100% at the time so I couldn't be as diligent about things as I should have been. It'll be a different roofer working on my roof this fall when I need to replace a chimney.

I've been told by a better roofer that good new slate is essentially gone. At least in the realm of affordability. I don't know if this is true, just passing it on for your consideration. Here's more of the story or sales pitch: The more compact the slate the better. You can tap on a tile and the resonance tells you its structural integrity. Because all slate is layered some is more flakey-like than others. The assertion this guy made is that the tiles being sold new these days is too flakey (my word; can't remember his) and can't be relied on to last nearly as long as the more solid that was used on older roofs. The recommendation is to consider installing used tiles rather than new because the used ones if chosen from a good lot will have that desired good structural integrity.

You're probably wondering dollar figures for repairs. I have to admit that while I was horrified by the prices I can't remember what they were. I just (luckily?) have a terrible memory for that sort of thing. My wife remembers it all, as she paid the bills for it but she's asleep now. Maybe $10K/side (maybe?) each of which isn't very big (it's not a particularly big house) and that's with used slate for any replacement needed.

As for the leak in the condo you're looking at... watch out. Leaks can be something small but nasty to fix. I'm currently needing to replace a chimney not only because its pointing was done poorly but I just can't stop a roof leak around it and need to have the flashing done the right way (from upward in its inside). Luckily I know where this is. For yours be aware that water can travel a very long way sometimes before showing up in the ceiling below. If you're looking at a converted school house I presume the presumably huge attic got finished off so you can't just go into there and look for the cause of the leak?

Showstopper? That's your call! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif I prefer the look of real slate, regardless of the maintenance hassle. Oh, and with the shiny light grey color I swear it keeps the house cooler by far compared to any tar shingle roof.

I hope some of this blather helps a bit.

Thanks Peter for the reply. Yes, I believe this is the old style slate, steeply pitched and also there are a couple of gables in the condo I am looking at. I am concerned about the finances. It is only a 18 condo development spread out over two buildings and I wonder if they can handle the initial and on going roof repairs. The place was converted in 1986 but only sold as condos the past two years. I guess the charm of the lesser number of units can also be it's bane of existance.

4-5 years ago my parents were having the their slate roof repaired for 10th+ time and it was the old style slate, steeply pitched and also there are several gables. The house is about 90 years old and is about 5,000 sf. The Ins. company was paying for the repairs and had a belly full of doing it. Instead of repairing it again the Ins. company elected to replace the slate roof with a tin roof. Cost of the new tin roof was $80,000. This tells me a slate is incredibly expensive to work with. On the other hand a roof that last 90 years is pretty impressive.

Best case: Minor leak easily repaired.

Worst case: Roof has major structural problems and repair requires special assesment that could cost you a lot of money.

I lived in a condo that was about 10 years old, had a combination flat roof with rubber membrane and pitched roof with wooden shingles. I had a roof leak in my unit and as it turned out, almost every building (approximately 40 buildings) had similar problems. The builder had built the flat roofs incorrectly and major repairs were needed throughout the complex. A special assesment was needed that approximately doubled the monthly dues and left everyone pretty upset about the whole situation. There was an action against the builder, too, but that was not fruitful for some reason. Of course the internal damage in my unit was repaired at my expense, but that was not such a big deal. But the leak kept happening again and again until the major repairs could be completed, and that took quite some time.

Fortunately the location and housing market was good and I sold for other reasons shortly thereafter at a profit. The higher assesment did not discourage buyers due to market conditions.

I regretted buying the place at the time, but since it sold easily, there was really no harm in the end. I guess any home will have its maintenance requirements, but it is best to avoid those you can.

As a buyer, you have the right of inspection and if I were you, I would want to know if the roof has minor or major problems. As a general rule of thumb, I try not to let anyone rush me into a major purchase. Of course they are going to tell you whatever they think will rush you into the transaction, like you have to sign by Monday or there is another nice young couple intereste in this unit and they are writing an offer, etc. If they won't give you an extension, your fallback position is to let your offer expire. Your offer has an inspection clause and you can state that you are not satisfied with the results of your inspection at this point. This should not jeopardize your deposit in any way. You can always place another offer if the roof inspection turns out OK. They are not going to turn your money away if you come back with a second offer.

Of course the risk is that another buyer shows up and takes the unit, but you have to decide how desperate you are to get this place. Maybe you really need a place and you really like this one and your interest rate is great, or maybe you have plenty of time and don't mind waiting for the perfect place.

There are slate alternatives available. There's a concrete version and other synthetics, too. Ones I've seen looked pretty good but that was as seen from the road, and while they aren't as expensive as slate, they aren't cheap either, somewhere in between a convential roof and slate.

Get an outside inspector to give you a really up close check on it. Yes, leaks can be very destructive and might not show up as much of anything at first glance. If the seller and/or the management company balks, remember, you have to live with the condo and pay for it, and you're the buyer, so that puts you in control.

Outside pressure to buy is something I would NOT tolerate!

Tell them it's off until the leak is found and how bad the problem is!