SureFire runtimes

quick question:

I currently own the following SF's: C3-BK, C3-HA, E1e-WN, E2e-HA, G2-BK, 6P-BK upgraded into the 6R-BK, 8AX-BK, and forthcoming, the KL7-BK-WH bezel for my 8AX. So yes, I do love my SureFires! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

My question is about the SF advertised runtimes. For instance, I read that the 6P, with the LOLA, should produce approx 65 lumens for 60 minutes. Likewise for the G2. The C3, with the LOLA, should produce approx 125 lumens for 60 minutes, etc, etc.

HOwever, I am finding that, judging from what I can see with my eyes, the output of all my SFs certainly do not reflect these runtime ads. My 6P starts off bright with a fresh pair of 123s, btu after say 10 minutes, the brightness definitely decreases, and by the time I reach say, 20-30 minutes, the brightness is nowhere near what it was originally. So in MY opinion, the runtime should read as 65 lumens for 20-30 minutes, with a gradual decrease upto 60 minutes... something to that effect.

Please dont get me wrong - I love my SF's. And I do respect that for the most part, their advertised runtimes are actually quite CONSERVATIVE when compared to other brands' advertised output and runtimes. I just wished that my lights - say my 6P for example - would REALLY produce 65 lumens for an hour. But understand it is not a regulated light and so a gradual decrease is simply the reality of things. But shouldnt the ads say that then?

Tks for reading my ventings... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

CQB

isn't the incandescent running time having something to do with the decrease to 50% of original output, since it is not regulated at all?

The Lumen rating SureFire gives for models such as the 6P is not the peak output on the runtime curve. You could find that the output is 100 Lumens or more on average over the first 10 minutes.

The output curve you have noticed is similar for most unregulated lights.

Since the vast majority of flashlights are not regulated, it is normal.

You are asking for a regulated incandescent flashlight and certainly, SureFire offer one of those - the A2.

Al

Speaking of that... my 6P's beam dimming and yellowing and I think its another battery change... If you are changing batteries when the light starts to dim noticably, the runtime is even shorter by 10 minutes plus minus I guess?

Is the M series regulated Al?

I'm not Al, but i can say that A2 is the only regulated incan from SF.

Correct. The A2 is the only regulated incandescent model SureFire have released.

Whatever happened to the much-hyped M2D/C2D series? Their 2002 catalog talks about them a lot, but my 2004 C2 Centurion ain't a Digital Centurion by any means.

SureFire decided not to release any other Digital Incandescents.

Ah! Thanks for all the replies guys!

Al - thanks for the clarification re: the output "curve".

I understand these lights are not regulated, hence the gradual decrease in output. My only gripe (and it IS a small one really, as I keep buying more and more SF's) is that on the packaging, it says, for example, 65 lumens output for 60 minutes.

So someone who isnt familiar with regulation vs non-regulation, etc... will simply EXPECT 65 lumens for 60 minutes. And really, I wouldnt blame them for expecting that.

Now if companies want to REALLY advertise accurate and realistic runtimes and output levels then, IMHO, they would either have a disclaimer explaining that the advertised figures are indeed "averages only", or they would reword the details to something like, "approx 100 lumens upto the first 10 minutes, then declining output thereafter...".

Advertising a light will have an output of 65 lumens for 60 minutes is pretty clear and leaves little room for misunderstanding... and when i really think about it, it is perhaps ultimately misleading.

Whatever the advertised runtimes are for the SF A2 is probably the ONLT figures that are closest to what is reality... eh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh2.gif

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...Now if companies want to REALLY advertise accurate and realistic runtimes and output levels then...

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I think SureFire is one of the most accurate ones when it comes to output.

Regarding the output curve and bulbs. Isn't it bad on a Surefire bulb when the light dims due to battery power being less? I remember reading that some incandescent bulbs actually don't take kindly to dimming. So, is it then advised to change batteries as soon as one notices dimming in an incandescent Surefire? Or should the batteries be changed when the output is REALLY LOW??

It's better not to run flashlights when the output is dim and yellow compared to what it was with fresh batteries.

I think any company should be wary in this day and age advertising anything misleading at all.

I'm sure Surefire would have done some testing, having said that, if their product was up to scratch they would have made that fact absolutely plain... Maybe it's a problem they don't wish to address..

$0.02

a runtime chart on the package would be almost perfect!
my KL 2 has one, but inside the package, that doesnt
really hlp if you want to buy one...

If fact, I find my 6P rather good. The dimming part comes rather late and gradual before it suddenly goes a steep downslope at the last 10 minutes. Base on my personal observation (only,) I estimate it goes something like this:

First 10 min - 65+ lumens
10 - 20 min - 65 lumens
20 - 30 min - 60 lumens
30 - 40 min - 55 lumens
40 - 50 min - 50 lumens
50 - 60 min - 50 to 20 lumens

I am not sure about others but mine appears to be like that.

SJACKAL:
your obsevation is a little better than what i got-my 6p decline around the 30-40 minute mark with the SF batteries. but in general they should have a sharp down-turn at the end, since it is lithium. Case in point: my E2E with the LOLA is still going strong about 2 housrs of operation, about 80% of its rated operatiing time, so I say that Surefire's claim is the closest that we can ever get without using a chart to explain.....