LED ques for LEOs & other security professionals

hey there!

I tried to search before posting so forgive me if this has already been discussed before (and I'm guessing it has). =)

During night patrols as a security officer, I find my INCAN lights (ie. SF 6p, G2, 8AX, C3, etc) provide me better light for "threat recognition" than my LED lights. Reason being, there are countless sources of light pollution on property during a typical evening. So when I am approaching, say, a suspicious person(s) who appears to be either urinating on property, or dealing drugs, or trying to steal someone's vehicle, etc... my flashlight HAS to be able to provide us with as much information as is possible in terms of a threat assessment. And again, I find LEDs - even luxeons - lacking in this dept due to an LED light being "dilluted" by all these other light sources in the background.

Although, knowing that the bulb of an LED light will never pop IS a comforting feature.

So now to my question: What **LED flashlight(s)** have you guys (LEOs or not) used for threat recognition, on the job? I'm not talking about trying to read a map in your cruiser, or trying to write in your notebook and you needing a little light for help. I'm talking maybe doing an exterior perimeter foot patrol of a property at night, or maybe a general foot patrol at night in a downtown beat, or maybe even taking part in a night-time foot-pursuit of a fleeing suspect, you get the idea.

Have some of you guys tried the almighty EL TriStarPhazer - although it isnt the smallest light out there. Or maybe some other LED model? Or maybe most of us stick to INCANs for this type of task..?

Thanks for sharing your valuable experience with the less experienced, like me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

be safe.
CQB

Good question .. im wanting to know also... I still use the regular xenon type for throw and seek... but Im desperatly seeking a good luxeon led thrower that will not fade out and blend in to the background and is still small enough to carry on a belt ,,, Im wanting the added security of no bulb burn out also .. but no loss of light from poor led throw either..

added how do you like that Q-III? Im thinking of getting one but if it dont throw very good either maybe not....

Jefff: ah, it seems we're both waiting on that "perfect" LED light that wont diffuse in the b/ground, and will have excelent throw + penetrating power. Ah, if only. =)

Re: the QIII - I'll be honest. It's a cute light. My wife thinks it's a cute light. It's definitely a small-factor light as well. Very EDC-able. I find I use the holster it came with, it's a great holster. Kinda rigid. It can fit a SF E1e as well if desired. The QIII does not throw out a great wall of light though. I've read some posts where they claim the QIII has 70+ lumens of o/p. THAT my friend, is a wishful figure. =) Maybe more like 30 lumens, to my untrained eye. Runtime, I cant quite say. I've been using older 123's. It's definitely time to restock on 123's, heheh. Overall it's a decent light, nicely priced. It's NOT tactical in that it will NOT blind an assailant, but it WILL light up an area more so than say, an Inova X5T would. It's a nice EDC light for general use. The reflector ensures a nice hotspot and "some" throw. But the light will "dillute" as any other LED light would in the presence of other ambient light sources.

Short of an X-binned LuxV light, a GOOD multiple Lux III light would likely be your best choice. 3 Lux IIIs put out upwards of 270 Lumens (T bin Lux IIIs) driven @ spec current of 700mA, and 325 Lumens driven at 1A (right on par with an X bin). Even brighter beyond that (375 Lumens @ 1.2A - I wouldn't go much beyond that), as long as heatsinking is good.

Ask 3rd Shift what he thinks of his Inretech light that he uses for this very purpose.

As time goes on, I keep thinking, "Man, I'm going to have to break down and get one of those two-level switches for my Surefire KL1/E1E combo."

Seriously, the new SF KL1 LED head is a killer light. Amazing throw, light quality, build, etc etc. It needs a low level switch though for close up work.

Currently, I feel there is no LED based light suitable for Police work, as a duty or tactical light.

I've tried an L4 and an L5 while working, and a few different Luxeon based lights, and they don't have the concentration of lighting needed to overcome ambient lighting (i.e. streetlights, building lights, moon light, etc) and they lack sufficient throw.

-dan

[ QUOTE ]
dano said:
Currently, I feel there is no LED based light suitable for Police work, as a duty or tactical light.

I've tried an L4 and an L5 while working, and a few different Luxeon based lights, and they don't have the concentration of lighting needed to overcome ambient lighting (i.e. streetlights, building lights, moon light, etc) and they lack sufficient throw.

-dan

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I designed U-09 to be a good tactical flashlight as well as the most resistant diving light ever. Not as small as Surefires, but blinding enough and more than two hours runtime. Surefire makes excellent lights, but here in Spain lith 123's can reach easily 4US$ unit, and what is more you can't find it anywhere.

Blowing incands, short runtimes , and difficult to find batteries are far from my tactical requirements.

Time ago I was in the spanish navy, and in our local traffic police too. When you are trying to help after a car crash with a Magcharger with blowing bulbs and a impresive memory effect on its NiCds you think that something needs to be done about that. A flashlight able to use on emergencies batteries that you can get on any gas station is one of that things.

So, CQB, are you saying that you do NOT think that your Elektrolumens Tri-Star Phazer is bright enough for assessing threats, or just bigger than you want for those situations?

You raise a very interesting point . Leds are great indoors and they are a good EDC or duty belt back up . For long throw in light polluted areas incans have it . I sort of know where of I speak , Im a security technician with some LEO background . In buildings , attics and crawl spaces LED's have it . For perimeter checks ( a thing I often do for my own saftey ) or poss threat I.D. I go incan. (a Surefire M3 ) . The Surefire A2 is the best of both worlds , LED backup for close work , or Incan. failure. good throw for general outdoor work . Dont even think of trying to replace an incan bulb in darkness , I can tell you a few horror stories from my Maglite days . I also carry a Streamlite Stylus in my uniform shirt as a 3rd. level back up /task lite . The only good thing about old incans. I.E. mags is that they made OK caveman type impact weapons , great if you like being sued and/or being a convict . If you are a pro. get up to speed on PPCT and get an asp. The asp and small tac lites have changed saftey equipment for ever and for better !

It doesn't provide a "wall", but an Inova T3 will outthrow all the 2X123 Surefires I have (which is 4). It will not outthrow my 3X123 2C mag mod, but it does really well for throw for an LED.

A lot of leds just aren't white enough either.
I have retired my Trilight3 for now. (my November avatar light)
I'm using a 5d magg with a very good looking, white, 160 lumen (W bin flux) Luxeon5 direct driven with 5 nimh 9000mah D cells.
When I'm carrying this, I already have a baton out and ready. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif
Oh, and yes, I now have my Baton certification. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
When I'm not using it, I'm back to using my Vector (1395) 3 million candlepower twin 100watt, handheld spotlight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Edit:
That 5d is kinda heavy though.
I will soon be getting a 4c cell and put 5 sub c's in it along with a lux5 and a red Osink.
That would be the better baton with enough runtime.

To date I've not found an LED acceptable to me in the application you've specified. I use an old Surefire 9P or my newer M3 and occasionally my old M6 when I was on perimeter rounds. I carry and use LED lights indoors or within 5-10 feet outdoors.

GregR

Pete Broccolo-

Do you have the Tri-Star? Does it work out for you?

GregR

P.S. I'm wondering if you know my cousin Amy who last I heard was posted to Carlye, she graduated from Depot in Nov 2001.

im keeping an eye out for Gladius night ops by blackhawk http://www.blackwaterusa.com/btw2004/articles/1025frank.html.. with strobe effect.. And wanting a Megaray 175 light http://www.cones.free-online.co.uk/MegaRay%20175.htm in a true hand held small edc belt form.. but for now that is just a dream ...check out those beam shots.. now thats what im talking about.. lol

hey Pete: I DO use the TSP when I work any evening shifts. For regular duty carry, I usually have my SF 8AX, either as is, or as an L7. My backup light is usually the G2. When I go for an exterior mobile patrol (checking for late-night lovers on property, would-be thieves & vandals, etc) I throw the TSP into my vehilce. As for carrying it with me - I dont have a holster that fits it - yet. I intend on getting one of the MAXpedition ones that are used for batons and ohter larger flashlights. The TSP's beam of light is an excellent one. Decent throw, decent flood, decent overall output. But a few things:

a) size - I wish it was smaller.
b) not regulated - after a few minutes of use, my eyes "tell" me tha output has already started diminishing. And I'm the type of guy who wants the highest output for the longest time. If Wayne ever comes out with a regulated TSP I would be very interested in that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

c) the switch - although I am 100% used to the switch on the tail end, the overall length of the TSP is similar to a maglite, and a button on the side would, IMHO, have been better for my smaller hands. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Side Note: Is anyone familiar with Tek Tite's TAC12L?? It looks like it has a similar bezel to the TSP, btu runs on 4 123's... checkout: http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=2089

CQB

[ QUOTE ]
barbarin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dano said:
Currently, I feel there is no LED based light suitable for Police work, as a duty or tactical light.

I've tried an L4 and an L5 while working, and a few different Luxeon based lights, and they don't have the concentration of lighting needed to overcome ambient lighting (i.e. streetlights, building lights, moon light, etc) and they lack sufficient throw.

-dan

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I designed U-09 to be a good tactical flashlight as well as the most resistant diving light ever. Not as small as Surefires, but blinding enough and more than two hours runtime. Surefire makes excellent lights, but here in Spain lith 123's can reach easily 4US$ unit, and what is more you can't find it anywhere.

Blowing incands, short runtimes , and difficult to find batteries are far from my tactical requirements.

Time ago I was in the spanish navy, and in our local traffic police too. When you are trying to help after a car crash with a Magcharger with blowing bulbs and a impresive memory effect on its NiCds you think that something needs to be done about that. A flashlight able to use on emergencies batteries that you can get on any gas station is one of that things.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey Barbarin: Nice website! Too bad I cant read spanish! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

I am interested in your light, the U09. Is the bezel a similar configuration to the TSP and the TAC12? (3 x LuxIII).

I agree that runtime has always been an issue for most INCAN tactical lights. Is yours regulated? What do you use to feed it? Is it rechargeable, using a batt stick? What is the overall length & weight?

I must say, judging from the pics, that is one NICE piece of kit! Good work!

CQB

I agree with dano; there's no suitable production LED light right now for the purposes you specify. I recently discovered the L4's shortcomings in this arena; wish I'd checked out CPF and seen dano's earlier comments BEFORE buying the L4.

I would think the Aleph 3 will fill your needs. I was looking into an Aleph 1 or 2, but Don says you need the 3 head to get the throw up to 6P/G2 standards- which is the threshhold I want. While just right for uniform carry, the 3 head is a bit large for EDC in plain clothes; which is what I'm working these days.

So the L4 sits on my bench. I went back to E2 and an ARC AAA for EDC. If I have to put on a uniform, it will be a 6P on the Sam Browne for back-up and an SL20 with extra charged battery stick for general purposes. I used that combo for many years when I was on the road.

And IMO, incans are still more useful outdoors where ambient light is present.

I've been using my Elektrolumens Tri-Star 4D for several months on patrol. It's always with me between the seatbelt latch and the console of my patrol car. If it's after sun down, I snatch it as I exit the vehicle and go about doing what needs to be done, whatever the incident.

It is an excellent light for patrol. It has been extremely durable. It is direct drive, so there are no regulators to malfunction. It's beam is very nice for everything from traffic stops to searching in the woods. It has very good throw. I would liken it's throw to a Streamlight Stinger or SF 8AX, but with a much larger area lit up at that distance. The color of the light is very white. The switch is on the barrel in the usual spot, not on the end like the Tri-Star Phazer.

Regarding size, well I like it. I choose to not carry it on my belt. I prefer to keep it in my off hand or tuck it under my arm for interviews. I've put a piece of bicycle inner-tube on the barrel for just that purpose. It works well. It's a 4D cell light, which is nearly perfect for me. My dept was issued 5D Mags, so I'm used to a big light.

I carry a SF 8NX on my belt for a backup light. I am becoming increasingly dissatisfied with this light. I'm getting sick of battery memory problems. I just got the Elektrolumens XM3 2AA regulated light yesterday. I haven't used it at work yet, but it may take the place of my SF. Initial impression is very good. Not quite the throw of the SF, but still pretty good with nice side spill and excellent color.

So, the answer is...yes. There are production LED lights suitable for duty use.

I use a SF during the initial start of a search warrant service. Once the scene is under our control I switch to one of my LED lights for the non tactical duties. I have not found any LED light that I would use when things could get ugly fast.

I find most of the chat here regarding "tactical" equipment amusing.

After reading alot of these post's I am tending to agree that the tactical word is being thrown around a bit loosely also... rugged would be better suited for most cases..

Hey bucket .. keep us posted on how well ya like the XM-3 and if in fact it does replace your SF.. Thanks..