NewBie
*Retired*
• Increase the allowable drive current to 1500mA
http://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/PR34.pdf
http://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/PR34.pdf
1500 mA Luxeon breakthrough
- Thread starter NewBie
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
I just hope that leaving out any YEAR in this "The new LUXEON emitters are scheduled for summer release in white and seven colors." statement isn´t something to worry about - at least I won´t hold my breath - I just guess we´ll have a looong summer this year.
Klaus
Klaus
IsaacHayes
Flashlight Enthusiast
Ok, so can we get a rough idea of the wattage of these new leds? Is it 5w/6w? whats gonna be the Vf?
Also, 7 colors, so that includes the reds/amber. Are the new luxIII reds/amber part of this "new" luxeon, or is there going to be even higher output R/O etc than 190lumens???
Also, 7 colors, so that includes the reds/amber. Are the new luxIII reds/amber part of this "new" luxeon, or is there going to be even higher output R/O etc than 190lumens???
This will be an exciting year with all those powerful new LEDs ...
Guys, I am counting on your expertise to make them useable as quickly as possible in my lights ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernie
Guys, I am counting on your expertise to make them useable as quickly as possible in my lights ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernie
NewBie
*Retired*
.
TORCH_BOY
Flashlight Enthusiast
Waiting patiently
Northernflame
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2004
- Messages
- 145
Hi.
Very interesting.
However i'd have to give it some thought as to if it's practical to have LED's drain as much or more than incandescents. Even a FL with 3 D cells wouldn't last patucularly long.
Very interesting.
However i'd have to give it some thought as to if it's practical to have LED's drain as much or more than incandescents. Even a FL with 3 D cells wouldn't last patucularly long.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
That's why they make buck converters and AA-D adaptors.
BayMoe
Newly Enlightened
Wow, nice to see they've up the limits, but at that drive current our desire for the brightest light wouldn't last too long.
NewBie
*Retired*
Yes, and 130 lumens from a single die...
Throw Monster when compared to a Luxeon V
Throw Monster when compared to a Luxeon V
any possibility this is simply marketing?
If you take a luxeon and drive it to 1400 milliamps with proper heatsinking. results are most simular to the new anouncements.
several luxeon mods drive at those levels with no problems. so did lumineds actually come up with a better die temp solution or are they simply acknowleging Luxeons will survive at 1400 milliamps with proper heatsinking?
If you take a luxeon and drive it to 1400 milliamps with proper heatsinking. results are most simular to the new anouncements.
several luxeon mods drive at those levels with no problems. so did lumineds actually come up with a better die temp solution or are they simply acknowleging Luxeons will survive at 1400 milliamps with proper heatsinking?
soloco
Enlightened
Well, it isn't revolutionary, just evolutionary. If you think about it, the efficacy of ALL the Luxeon products has been the same, including the NEW Luxeon. However, the increased robustness of the NEW Luxeon will be very welcome.
NewBie
*Retired*
CY
Actually, there are rather ***fundamental*** differences in the new part that make a rather substantial difference from the old Lux I and Lux III emitters.
Yes, something having to do with die, ESD diode, Slug, and how they go together, and the result of what they did is impressive to say the least.
I'm not at liberty to discuss the details.
No, definitely not running Lux I/III technology at 1500mA, that would be rather foolish.
Robustness, humm, in some ways yes, but in other ways no, depends alot on your needs and application.
Actually, there are rather ***fundamental*** differences in the new part that make a rather substantial difference from the old Lux I and Lux III emitters.
Yes, something having to do with die, ESD diode, Slug, and how they go together, and the result of what they did is impressive to say the least.
I'm not at liberty to discuss the details.
No, definitely not running Lux I/III technology at 1500mA, that would be rather foolish.
Robustness, humm, in some ways yes, but in other ways no, depends alot on your needs and application.
soloco
Enlightened
NewB~
You seem to know alot about this. Without disclosing any secrets or such, could you tell us what exactly is the drawback to the NEW Luxeon, besides the expected higher cost? From the press release and from what you've said already it looks pretty awesome to me!
You seem to know alot about this. Without disclosing any secrets or such, could you tell us what exactly is the drawback to the NEW Luxeon, besides the expected higher cost? From the press release and from what you've said already it looks pretty awesome to me!
NewBie
*Retired*
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/TP43.pdf
- 15-30% higher efficiency
- 9 C/W
- Maximum Junction temp raised 50C, to 185C
- improved alignment
- better datum reference features
- 15-30% higher efficiency
- 9 C/W
- Maximum Junction temp raised 50C, to 185C
- improved alignment
- better datum reference features
NewBie
*Retired*
[ QUOTE ]
Kiessling said:
The MR-X is a LuxV though
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite true.
[ QUOTE ]
cy said:
ok, thanks, good to hear improvements VS marketing.
MR-X X3T has been running aprox. 1.5amps with no problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure why you decided to pull this out. You have 4 die in the Luxeon V, in a series parallel hookup inside the emitter such that each die is only getting 750mA, instead of the 1500mA, as in the new Luxeon part.
The significance of the new part is it is a single "point die", instead of four big die, which makes it behave much better in a reflector or optic, and thus it is alot easier to focus, and turn it into a tighter beam, that throws alot better than your Luxeon V.
The Luxeon V X3T in your Mr. Bulk has always had a rapid degredation mechanism ~500 hours common to all Lux V emitters/stars, instead of the 10's of thousands to 100 thousand hours of the 1 and 3W devices. It is well documented in the datasheet on page 1, both in the write-up and in the side bar. It is also emphasized by being repeated no less than 8 times in the datasheet.
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/protected/DS40.PDF
Further details show more specifics the rapid degredation on page 8 at 700mA, and your X3T is blasting 1.5A into the poor little sucker, leading to a much accellerated decrease in light output over time, just due to the massive amounts of current, which is pushing it even harder than what is shown there on the datasheet.
Then you add in the additional heat factor due to the total power of the 1500mA * ~7.2V = 11 Watts, 2X beyond it's design, which causes the whole flashlight temperature to rise, and the degredation over time mechanism is much accelerated from what is even found on the datasheet.
I never realized fools were pushing their stuff that bad.
I guess if you don't mind the highly accelerated loss of output, and just want something that is absolutely bright as possible, running everything on the bleeding edge of things, it's really no biggie.
Anyhow, lets go back to the Luxeon IV
Now there is the additional increase in light output efficiency of the Luxeon IV, 15-30% higher, which means you need less input power to reach the same brightness, and also more of the power goes into the photons, and less into producing heat, so you get a double whammy, more output due to efficiency, and less heat generated in the first place, also increasing efficiency of the output.
Significance?
Higher efficiency means you'll have 15-30% longer runtimes at the same light output level.
Less heat generated, humm, so with the same cooling that you had before, you'll produce 15-30% less heat in the first place, which means the flashlight body will be cooler, so the LED will be cooler, and you'll see even more output just due to the LED running cooler.
And on top of all of this...
The new Luxeon IV emitter can be soldered by design directly to the heatsink, which even further reduces the Luxeon IV temperature, increasing the efficiency of the LED, yet again. (yes, I know some folks solder their Luxeon emitter slugs to the heatsink right now, but it is not common in manufactured lights).
With specific features to aid in centering the emitter in the flashlight, and more accurate placement of the die in the emitter, you end up with more precise alignment in the flashlight, which helps produce a more perfect beam (for our throw aficionados).
These factors (efficiency, less heat, lower thermal resistance, longer runtimes, higher accuracy, and precise placement features) add up to a awful lot, most especially stacked together.
There are even further improvements in the new Luxeon IV (that haven't been announced which add even further significant pluses) which equates for me (so imho), most definitely anxiously waiting for this new awesome part to hit the shelves, and certainly waiting to purchase any LED based flashlights, if I am at all concerned at all about performance. Basically any high dollar flashlight for me, I consider a performance flashlight.
I guess you could get assurances that the flashlight producer will retrofit the part into their design if you return the light, but some of the advantages, such as soldering it down, won't allow them to take full advantage of the part in existing designs. Some of the physical characteristics might preclude use due to the obvious mechanical aspects, without replacing or modifying the existing parts. To be safe, I'd get the maker to agree to some dollar amount to do the retrofit, ahead of time.
If I absolutely needed or must have the light -today- for a specific use where I couldn't wait, I'd personally just buy a low cost light, unless I was just buying it for a collection or something. But if you have way more money than you know what to do with, spend away.
Of course, on the other hand, collectors might want to gather up flashlights based on the old technology parts.
Rumor has it that these new Luxeon IV parts will be available for purchase shortly.
Kiessling said:
The MR-X is a LuxV though
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite true.
[ QUOTE ]
cy said:
ok, thanks, good to hear improvements VS marketing.
MR-X X3T has been running aprox. 1.5amps with no problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure why you decided to pull this out. You have 4 die in the Luxeon V, in a series parallel hookup inside the emitter such that each die is only getting 750mA, instead of the 1500mA, as in the new Luxeon part.
The significance of the new part is it is a single "point die", instead of four big die, which makes it behave much better in a reflector or optic, and thus it is alot easier to focus, and turn it into a tighter beam, that throws alot better than your Luxeon V.
The Luxeon V X3T in your Mr. Bulk has always had a rapid degredation mechanism ~500 hours common to all Lux V emitters/stars, instead of the 10's of thousands to 100 thousand hours of the 1 and 3W devices. It is well documented in the datasheet on page 1, both in the write-up and in the side bar. It is also emphasized by being repeated no less than 8 times in the datasheet.
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/protected/DS40.PDF
Further details show more specifics the rapid degredation on page 8 at 700mA, and your X3T is blasting 1.5A into the poor little sucker, leading to a much accellerated decrease in light output over time, just due to the massive amounts of current, which is pushing it even harder than what is shown there on the datasheet.
Then you add in the additional heat factor due to the total power of the 1500mA * ~7.2V = 11 Watts, 2X beyond it's design, which causes the whole flashlight temperature to rise, and the degredation over time mechanism is much accelerated from what is even found on the datasheet.
I never realized fools were pushing their stuff that bad.
I guess if you don't mind the highly accelerated loss of output, and just want something that is absolutely bright as possible, running everything on the bleeding edge of things, it's really no biggie.
Anyhow, lets go back to the Luxeon IV
Now there is the additional increase in light output efficiency of the Luxeon IV, 15-30% higher, which means you need less input power to reach the same brightness, and also more of the power goes into the photons, and less into producing heat, so you get a double whammy, more output due to efficiency, and less heat generated in the first place, also increasing efficiency of the output.
Significance?
Higher efficiency means you'll have 15-30% longer runtimes at the same light output level.
Less heat generated, humm, so with the same cooling that you had before, you'll produce 15-30% less heat in the first place, which means the flashlight body will be cooler, so the LED will be cooler, and you'll see even more output just due to the LED running cooler.
And on top of all of this...
The new Luxeon IV emitter can be soldered by design directly to the heatsink, which even further reduces the Luxeon IV temperature, increasing the efficiency of the LED, yet again. (yes, I know some folks solder their Luxeon emitter slugs to the heatsink right now, but it is not common in manufactured lights).
With specific features to aid in centering the emitter in the flashlight, and more accurate placement of the die in the emitter, you end up with more precise alignment in the flashlight, which helps produce a more perfect beam (for our throw aficionados).
These factors (efficiency, less heat, lower thermal resistance, longer runtimes, higher accuracy, and precise placement features) add up to a awful lot, most especially stacked together.
There are even further improvements in the new Luxeon IV (that haven't been announced which add even further significant pluses) which equates for me (so imho), most definitely anxiously waiting for this new awesome part to hit the shelves, and certainly waiting to purchase any LED based flashlights, if I am at all concerned at all about performance. Basically any high dollar flashlight for me, I consider a performance flashlight.
I guess you could get assurances that the flashlight producer will retrofit the part into their design if you return the light, but some of the advantages, such as soldering it down, won't allow them to take full advantage of the part in existing designs. Some of the physical characteristics might preclude use due to the obvious mechanical aspects, without replacing or modifying the existing parts. To be safe, I'd get the maker to agree to some dollar amount to do the retrofit, ahead of time.
If I absolutely needed or must have the light -today- for a specific use where I couldn't wait, I'd personally just buy a low cost light, unless I was just buying it for a collection or something. But if you have way more money than you know what to do with, spend away.
Of course, on the other hand, collectors might want to gather up flashlights based on the old technology parts.
Rumor has it that these new Luxeon IV parts will be available for purchase shortly.
[ QUOTE ]
Luxeon V X3T in your Mr. Bulk
... snip ...
I never realized fools were pushing their stuff that bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
THis fool isn't MrBulk, it's hotbeam who made the MR-X.
Although MrBulk made the SNII which isn't far behind ...
NewBie ... your "explosive" style amazes me once more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
Weren't you critisizing LumiLeds shortly for their crappy Luxeons and promoting Cree products instead? This new LuxIV cahnged your mind? Sounds good to me ... the future is bright /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bernhard
Luxeon V X3T in your Mr. Bulk
... snip ...
I never realized fools were pushing their stuff that bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
THis fool isn't MrBulk, it's hotbeam who made the MR-X.
Although MrBulk made the SNII which isn't far behind ...
NewBie ... your "explosive" style amazes me once more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
Weren't you critisizing LumiLeds shortly for their crappy Luxeons and promoting Cree products instead? This new LuxIV cahnged your mind? Sounds good to me ... the future is bright /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bernhard
Similar threads
