Krytox on a PD - my thoughts

I managed to find some Krytox grease stocked here:
http://www.aeroconsystems.com/misc/krytox.htm

$9 for a 6 gram syringe of GPL 223 Krytox - General Purpose Grease with Corrosion Inhibitor. The corrosion protection won't really benefit the PD in any meaningful way over the standard Krytox, but it's not going to hurt anything either. In any case, the pricing is good (comparable to Nyogel,) the syringe is enough for PLENTY of flashlights, and the service was quick.

Why Krytox? Well, it's gaining popularity as a flashlight lubricant (along with GLY, the stuff Don puts on the PDs, and the popular Nyogel flashlight lubricant.) Unlike most other lubricants, it's based on Teflon (a popular component here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and designed to hold up under a wide range of stresses. It's also very, very smooth.

First warning to anyone considering re-greasing their light: Neither I nor the light manufacturer can or will be held responsible if you screw anything up. If you break it, you get to keep both pieces. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

Today I cleaned all the old grease off my PD (been using it on a daily basis for nearly three weeks, since I got it) and carefully applied a moderate amount of Krytox grease. The difference between the new, clean Krytox and the original GLY is mostly subtle, but the reassembled light's overall feel is noticably improved. I'm willing to bet that a large part of the change is simply due to the fact that the GLY was getting "dirty" due to buildup of metal residues from the breaking-in process, but regardless, the piston pushes and releases more easily and smoothly and the head turns a bit more smoothly, though not any easier (not that I can notice, at least.)

I was also able to grease up the O-ring under the bezel (I replaced the lens as well, the standard Arc4-sized UCL lens at flashlightlens.com) I needed to use a dull pin to wedge it out safely, but had little difficulty snapping it back in without letting anything touch the reflector. I wouldn't recommend even attempting this to anyone without very steady hands.

The need for such a task is arguably low (preservation of that O-ring) but then I'm the paranoid type. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Note to anyone who attempts this: Do NOT let ANYTHING touch the reflector, the LE, or the inside surface of the lens, regardless of how clean it may be. Once you get the bezel ring off, touch as little as possible and get it back together as fast as you can. You don't want to smudge or scratch up any of the surfaces here, and no, they can't really be cleaned safely.

Anyway, the Krytox seems to do a decent job of staying put in spite of its slippery nature. It still moves itself around pretty well though, so be sure to double-check it after working everything a bit because excess can and will find its way into places you don't want it.

On the whole, it seems there can be some benefit to re-greasing a PD after breaking it in, and Krytox seems to be quite suitable for the task.

I concur with kennyj. I have tried every conceivable lube to make one hand switching on and off as smooth as possible, and 100% Teflon grease, or Teflon tape, seems to be the best so far. This is only for threads and 'O' rings that move, as in the PD.
For threads that have to only screw and unscrew ( battery replacement, no switch ) conductive Nyogel 759 seems to stay put very well and stops corrosion and galling.

I like Krytox. It has performed well for me but needs periodic refreshment as do all lubricants. Takes high temperatures well and does well metal-to-metal as well, though not for extended or rough use.

Wilkey

How well does it perform in terms of waterproofing compared to the other greases?

Billson: Actually, it's my understanding that the O-ring is what does the heavy lifting in the waterproofing department. The purpose of the lube (as far as waterproofing is concerned) is primarily to protect the O-ring from friction and keep it from drying out, shrinking, or being stretched thin in any one place. The O-ring is then compressed when the light is assembled, making a tight seal. In order for water to penetrate past the O-ring, the pressure must first force its way around it. Being under significant pressure against the "inner walls" already, and considering that force is likely to be relatively evenly applied, it takes quite a bit of pressure for water to get past the O-ring. The grease is simply there to make sure that the O-ring keeps doing its job. A smooth, easily-spread grease like what this application calls for is certainly not going to withstand force like this in normal circumstances, but a well-maintained rubber seal will. You could possibly use a thicker grease to improve on the seal, but you'd have to sacrifice usability for that. Nyogel, being thicker, might be better at providing additional protection. Bear in mind the caveats named above in that case, of course, as Nyogel and Krytox were made with completely different objectives in mind - one to provide an excellent seal, the other to provide excellent glide.

In either case, consider your standard garden hose. It has a rubber washer contained within the female ends of its connectors, and this is the only thing that provides a seal. This washer is rarely if ever greased, and yet, will perfectly withstand the pressure of running water for the duration of its useful life (usually dictated by the time it takes to dry out) which is not a small feat - it's enough pressure to break many kinds of pipework when improperly installed. There's no lubrication involved here at all, and yet a pressure-tolerant seal is maintained. Clearly, you don't need grease to make a seal - but it does help you maintain one.

I've not been able to find any data on Krytox's suitability for waterproofing, to be honest, but my knowledge (admittedly limited) leads me to believe that there are bigger concerns. Just make sure that the O-ring is kept properly lubricated and clean, and if you go diving, give some thought to using a durable lens as well (the O-rings aren't the only thing that can give way to pressure.)

If anyone wants to chime in and either vouch for my opinion or set me straight, please feel free. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hi guys,

I have been experimenting with some of the Krytox products as well and have added a new slew of tubes and bottles to a ridiculous shelf of lubes and sealants that I will never exhaust. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif While in the marine distribution industry, I got all kinds of samples of wonder lubes and chemicals.

I was first introduced to a teflon based lube over 30 years ago when I ran across Tri-Flon. I used this stuff extensively in shift, brake and throttle cables on mopeds and Vespas at the shope my brother and I owned at the time. I just did a google on Tri-Flon and came across an interesting article on the founder that Darell would appreciate. Seems the stuff is now called TriFlow . More recently, in the marine industry a new dry lube, McLube took center stage with extensive marketing as well as a product that acutally worked well!!

In doing some research on Krytox as well as seeking supply, I found out that Dupont now has a dry lube as well. I bought some along with a tube of the 223 grease. I had a tube of 226 that I got from McMaster-Carr but the 226 is too thick for these lights, IMHO. The salesman I spoke with on the phone told me that the dry lube would work great for the described flashlight application. I asked how it would fair with the O-rings and he said no problem. NOT! I tried it on both silicone and EPDM O-rings and found that the volitile solvents or carriers for the dry teflon particles caused the O-rings to swell and bind, big time. However, the threads and metal surfaces do work well with a noticible reduction in friction!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I suspect the ultimate would be to treat the threads and sealing bores with the dry lube with the O-rings removed and then after the solvents have evaporated, install pre-lubed O-rings. The O-rings really require little lube to function properly as they need enough to keep from drying out as well as enough to alow them to move, under compression against the metal sealing surfaces. Additional grease just insures that the O-rings will stay lubed longer but the additional grease is also a magnet to dust and dirt and any other contaminants as well as metal and oxide particles that are breaking free from the parts as they break in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

The PD's will continue to come from the factory ( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif) with surplus amounts of "break in" lube and I don't know if I will continue with the silicone or switch over to some Krytox product(s). The threads do need to break in and at some point, the user would be advised to clean off the original lube and start over with something fresh. I suspect that a dry lube would be a good choice for the metal, at this point. The O-rings can be wiped clean and then receive new lubrication.

The titanium proto that I carry now had threads that were too tight initially so I used some diamond lapping compound in the threads and accelerated the break in until the threads had a good glide and more backlash. I then cleaned off the lapping compound and particles and applied the Krytox to the threads. With proper break in and lubrication, the twisty lights should get better through use.

Interesting.

I just HAVE to ask, though... any chance of a K2-based Ti PD at some point in the future? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hey Guys,
Just to add to what Don has said about Krytox. I have used Krytox Grease on my PD and the results are very good. I removed all the original break-in lube from the O Ring and threads. Then I put a thin coat of Krytox on the O Ring and threads, it has an extremely smooth feel when I turn the PD's head.
If anyone is interested in doing some reading here is the link to the Krytox website.
http://www.krytox.com



[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
Hi guys,

I have been experimenting with some of the Krytox products as well and have added a new slew of tubes and bottles to a ridiculous shelf of lubes and sealants that I will never exhaust. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif While in the marine distribution industry, I got all kinds of samples of wonder lubes and chemicals.

I was first introduced to a teflon based lube over 30 years ago when I ran across Tri-Flon. I used this stuff extensively in shift, brake and throttle cables on mopeds and Vespas at the shope my brother and I owned at the time. I just did a google on Tri-Flon and came across an interesting article on the founder that Darell would appreciate. Seems the stuff is now called TriFlow . More recently, in the marine industry a new dry lube, McLube took center stage with extensive marketing as well as a product that acutally worked well!!

In doing some research on Krytox as well as seeking supply, I found out that Dupont now has a dry lube as well. I bought some along with a tube of the 223 grease. I had a tube of 226 that I got from McMaster-Carr but the 226 is too thick for these lights, IMHO. The salesman I spoke with on the phone told me that the dry lube would work great for the described flashlight application. I asked how it would fair with the O-rings and he said no problem. NOT! I tried it on both silicone and EPDM O-rings and found that the volitile solvents or carriers for the dry teflon particles caused the O-rings to swell and bind, big time. However, the threads and metal surfaces do work well with a noticible reduction in friction!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I suspect the ultimate would be to treat the threads and sealing bores with the dry lube with the O-rings removed and then after the solvents have evaporated, install pre-lubed O-rings. The O-rings really require little lube to function properly as they need enough to keep from drying out as well as enough to alow them to move, under compression against the metal sealing surfaces. Additional grease just insures that the O-rings will stay lubed longer but the additional grease is also a magnet to dust and dirt and any other contaminants as well as metal and oxide particles that are breaking free from the parts as they break in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

The PD's will continue to come from the factory ( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif) with surplus amounts of "break in" lube and I don't know if I will continue with the silicone or switch over to some Krytox product(s). The threads do need to break in and at some point, the user would be advised to clean off the original lube and start over with something fresh. I suspect that a dry lube would be a good choice for the metal, at this point. The O-rings can be wiped clean and then receive new lubrication.

The titanium proto that I carry now had threads that were too tight initially so I used some diamond lapping compound in the threads and accelerated the break in until the threads had a good glide and more backlash. I then cleaned off the lapping compound and particles and applied the Krytox to the threads. With proper break in and lubrication, the twisty lights should get better through use.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue"> </font>
Keep-em bright in the night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/au.gif,
Jeff

Oops. Love, JEFF

(no thanks needed - Darell)

[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
I just did a google on Tri-Flon and came across an interesting article on the founder that Darell would appreciate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting guy! I have have been using Tri-flow forever, and love it. When you wrote "Triflon" I thought for sure you had misspelled it! Never knew it had changed names. Has always been Tri-flow since I've been using it. I mostly use it on my bicycle friction surfaces, but it is fantastic on lock tumblers and just about anything else you can find.

Like Don, I have a crazy shelf of lubes as well (OK, not as crazy as Don's, but bad enough!), and now I'll have to add some Krytox. Lubes excite me for some reason. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

[ QUOTE ]
kennyj said:
Interesting.

I just HAVE to ask, though... any chance of a K2-based Ti PD at some point in the future? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

kennyj,
my Ti light has a sterling silver heat sink and I am driving the U bin LED at a whopping 350 mA! If I could get a hold of some K2's in the S bin that put out 60 lumens at 350 mA then the time may finally be here for a Ti light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Is my "low-tech" lube solution OK?
Spit on the o-ring and ear wax on the threads. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


Plumbers silicone grease on the o-ring and machine oil on the threads. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Intersting article..............I used "Triflon" when it first
came out, as well! ALways thought that it was the best "lubricant" on the market.

jeffb

I want one.
Don dosent' a guy like you have access to some K2 samples?
I asked and received nothing.
Yaesumofo

[ QUOTE ]
Barefootone said:
Oops. Love, JEFF

(no thanks needed - Darell)

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue"> </font> <font color="blue"> </font> Darell,
Thanks for fixing my mess, but "Lubes excite me for some reason"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif your bad Ha,HA just kidding.
Keep-em bright in the night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/au.gif,
Jeff

how about a sticky for lubes? (so to speak)

1)plumbers tape for threads/krytox for 0 rings?
2)Nyogel for all?
3) Ratshack general lube for all?


i am now so confuselled

A lube-sticky is a great idea! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Maybe one should start it in the Material and Machining forum?
bernie