L6 Porcupine and other exotic SF's

I have dsicovered this interesting L6 from another flashlight forum, http://www.flashlightforum.hk.


Follow this link:

http://www.surefirekorea.com/

Scroll down half way.

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

I dislike the fact that SF releases all these "special editions" in Asia and refuse to sell them to American customers. Check out the KL1-BK-HA, why the heck can't they sell it in America? the same thing goes for the A2-BK-HA, the A2 porcupine, I think at one point i saw a L2 porcupine as well, and now the L6 and U2 Porcupine that looks out of this world.

Surefire, what's the deal? Why these "specials" that Americans can't have? Aren't you an American company?

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

Just organise a groupbuy and get LITEmania to stock 'em up since he's over there in Korea

The L6 porcupine came up in another thread just awhile back; I had no idea it was a surefire then. Looks really aggressive man.

Surefire is getting me confused

So, Surefire, as the leader in tactical and civilian lights, is an American company.

but there are lights that Surefire sells that they don't want Americans know and buy.

which?

hmm...'

the A2 BK HA

the U2 Porcupine

L2 porcupine

the L6 Porcupine

the KL1 BK HA

the discontinued D3

E1e BK HA

the E1e SG


I'm guessing there are more.

SO what is going on here? Americans don't get the good stuff? I'm honestly confused since I thought that as Americans we can at least vote with our wallets. Are we not supposed to have them?

Or are we just not supposed to know?

Surefire used to be my favorite manufacturer, until I came across the lights listed above. Their lights are of the finest quality, but their business stradegies makes me think their priorities are somewhat weird. We in America are waiting months to get a Mn20, yet hey have enough capacity to make all these extra parts to make special editions for Asia and manage to keep all these nice lights in stock in KOREA!!! Isn't that strange?

just a thought...

Nick

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

L6 Porcupine = $706.32
U2 Porcupine = $442.42
KL1 BK HA = $79.56

These are just the prices for the Korean ones. Would you really want to pay these prices? The L6 is a one off as far as I can tell since it has PK's logo.

IIRC this was brought up before about the A2 Porcupine but I can't find the thread. I think it might have something to do with liability in the US at least as it is regarding the TID heads.

-LT

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

Lunal_Tic said:

L6 Porcupine = $706.32
U2 Porcupine = $442.42
KL1 BK HA = $79.56

These are just the prices for the Korean ones. Would you really want to pay these prices? The L6 is a one off as far as I can tell since it has PK's logo.

IIRC this was brought up before about the A2 Porcupine but I can't find the thread. I think it might have something to do with liability in the US at least as it is regarding the TID heads.

-LT

Click to expand...

Considering how many people in America bought the Beast, I don't think it's a matter of the higher price. Do you know how many people have the M6 just on CPF alone? more than one M6? there are a few, to say the least. How many people have bought the 500 dollar 10x over the years? These lights are likely to be aimed toward collectors, but there isn't a lack of SF collectors here in the USA. A light with PK logo commands respect and cash here.



The U2P, being 442 bucks, may seem a huge price over the 270 dollar U2, is not such a huge difference. For example, in california, you have to pay 8 percent sales tax, that's 270*1.08=291 dollars, plus 6 dollars shiping that's nearly 300 dollars. A 50 percent premium for a rare model is not a big price to pay, considering people were paying 160+ dollars for those elusive E2e BK's, a whopping 90% over retail value, and those flew off the BST like hotcakes...

As far as the TID goes, if Surefire is pushing the E2d in magazines like Guns and Ammo, American rifleman, and such as a last ditch impact weapon, I don't see how they can be worried about liability of the teeth.

I appreciate your effort to help us, but the cards ain't stacking up.

the fact is, even the SF korea web site says there are "500" L6P's made. 500. 5-0-0. five hundred. quinientos. so the "one off" theory doesn;t stand either.

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

LEDcandle said:

Just organise a groupbuy and get LITEmania to stock 'em up since he's over there in Korea

The L6 porcupine came up in another thread just awhile back; I had no idea it was a surefire then. Looks really aggressive man.

Click to expand...

Define Irony:

a bunch of Americans using internet pals from Asia to organize a groupbuy so they can get their hand on a light made by a American company...

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

I stand corrected if there are 500 of those L6s, it would make it a limited run not a one off. However you didn't mention whether you personally would be willing to pay those prices.

I understand your championing the American consumer's rights but without more info I only see it as different products for different markets. Even Arc has made special runs for overseas clients. The camo AAA comes to mind.

-LT

P.S. As an after thought, couldn't you just buy these lights from the overseas dealers? I know Supreme in HK sells overseas, they even list prices in US$.

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

270winchester said:

Define Irony:

a bunch of Americans using internet pals from Asia to organize a groupbuy so they can get their hand on a light made by a American company...

Click to expand...

HAHA... truly ironic

Maybe surefire Korea is run rather 'independently' and have their own R&D and production quotas and capabilities.

Just look at automobiles for example... if I'm not wrong, you can't get a Honda Accord EuroR in Europe. Then why EuroR??? Also, some japanese models are totally not sold in their own country but purely for export.

Not only a japanese company making a product not sold in their own country, but the cars are even manufactured in japan itself!

I'm guessing at least the Surefire Korea lights are not made in USA and shipped to Korea for exclusive sale? If they are, then guess you might have to go rob their warehouse to get your hands on a couple

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

You know, it's kind of a waste of time to use me to gauge whether or not SF should release a product in a certain area of the world, since I am a college student who works to pay for his school and his lights on the side.

Would I personally buy it? Show me the spec and price in English and I will consider. Allow me the chance to see in persoan without having to fly to Korea first, if that makes sense at all. But tyring to pigeonhole me to give an answer then you are missing the essence of a free market with supply and demand, you show us the stuff and we'll see.

Sincey ou said that it's a different products for different market, how do you quantify different?

It's absurd to me to have to buy from dealers across hte pacific ocean for a product made by a company a few hundred miles away from me, and being a proud American, I like to support American dealers who puts the money back into our economy. it's a personal thing that I take very seriously, seeing how America has lost almost all of its industry to Asian countries.

has Surefire offerd the product here? did any market research?

I don't champion anything, I'm far from a competent person to perform such a task. It's just that an option speaks better than any attempt to explain the lack thereof.

Let me ask you this, if it's different products for different parts of the world, then what SF's available in the USA are NOT available in Asia(other than the cheaper version of the E2e, the E2e SG)? WHy can't we have something that other parts of the world can't have? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?? Bueller?

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

270winchester said:

Define Irony:

a bunch of Americans using internet pals from Asia to organize a groupbuy so they can get their hand on a light made by a American company...

Click to expand...

or Canadians having to buy marathon watches from the US... :laughing:

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

270winchester said:

I dislike the fact that SF releases all these "special editions" in Asia and refuse to sell them to American customers. Check out the KL1-BK-HA, why the heck can't they sell it in America? the same thing goes for the A2-BK-HA, the A2 porcupine, I think at one point i saw a L2 porcupine as well, and now the L6 and U2 Porcupine that looks out of this world.

Surefire, what's the deal? Why these "specials" that Americans can't have? Aren't you an American company?

Click to expand...

It also annoys me that certain AMERICAN companies then turn their backs on international users and say "we don't care about the rest of the world".

When I raise this point, the response I get is "live with it, get someone else to send it over".

Supremeco ships to the US anyway.

Go easy on the nationalism, to the rest of us out here it looks set to polarize things into another "America vs the world" issue and believe me, even for someone like me who's on your side, it doesn't look good to us. Remember there's a bigger world out here and that globalization/free trade pushed by the West cuts both ways, resulting in cheaper products - and potential loss of jobs to lower-cost bidders. I also agree it's not nice to be cut off from certain desirable products, but spare a thought for the rest of us who have been living this way for the longest time.

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

LEDcandle said:

HAHA... truly ironic

Maybe surefire Korea is run rather 'independently' and have their own R&D and production quotas and capabilities.

Just look at automobiles for example... if I'm not wrong, you can't get a Honda Accord EuroR in Europe. Then why EuroR??? Also, some japanese models are totally not sold in their own country but purely for export.

Not only a japanese company making a product not sold in their own country, but the cars are even manufactured in japan itself!

I'm guessing at least the Surefire Korea lights are not made in USA and shipped to Korea for exclusive sale? If they are, then guess you might have to go rob their warehouse to get your hands on a couple

Click to expand...

Bingo...I was thinking that myself.

the difference here is, the luxury Japanese cars are still built in Japan, so the Japanese worker have the higher paying jobs, AFAIK all the Lexus's, Infinities, and most of the Acuras are built in Japan.

In this case, for that equation to be congruent, Surefire should be making cheaper lights in Korea and making the higher end models in America for export, but we don't know what really happens.

I haven't heard any official news that SF manufactures light in Korea or Japan these days. or maybe I just spent a few months in a cave. But that's the most logical guess I have seen yet.

I suppose it would be cheaper for SF to use workers in Korea to make lights, with their lower wage and all. And you wonder why the American worker is a term of oxymoron these days...

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

My bad. I mistook your rhetorical questions for those seeking possible answers. Since you wish to rail on about the inequities of Surefire's master plan I'll leave you to it.

Hope you find that which you seek.
-LT

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

edit

Re: L6 Porcupine - Pork Killer

other than the U2 Porcupine, there is also a L2 Porcupine and KL1 BK HA....

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

270winchester said:

...I thought that as Americans we can at least vote with our wallets. Are we not supposed to have them?...

Click to expand...

The issue isn't the consumer's rights, but the company's rights to self-determine most efficient production and distribution. No law says every company must market every product equally in each country or region.

If there were, then Ford couldn't sell a right-hand-drive car in Britain without selling it in the US, even though the sales quantity wouldn't justify the local production or import costs.

Or Frito-Lay couldn't only market pork rinds in the south, but would be forced to market and distribute them across the US, even though the revenue didn't justify the expenses.

Yes, it's frustrating to hear of cool overseas products that aren't sold in the US. Even Bill Gates was affected by this -- bought a Porsche 959 (sold in Germany, not the US), but couldn't import it.

Companies are generally free to determine the cost/benefit tradeoff of selling in a particular market. The alternative would be a gigantic bureaucracy to regulate where every product made by every company in the US could be sold, and maintain this for the entire ever-changing US product line.

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

Btw, is it their lighting or does the M6 and M3 look like Black HA III?
If so, you can add another 2 'rare' items on your initial list

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

joema said:

The issue isn't the consumer's rights, but the company's rights to self-determine most efficient production and distribution. No law says every company must market every product equally in each country or region.

If there were, then Ford couldn't sell a right-hand-drive car in Britain without selling it in the US, even though the sales quantity wouldn't justify the local production or import costs.

Or Frito-Lay couldn't only market pork rinds in the south, but would be forced to market and distribute them across the US, even though the revenue didn't justify the expenses.

Yes, it's frustrating to hear of cool overseas products that aren't sold in the US. Even Bill Gates was affected by this -- bought a Porsche 959 (sold in Germany, not the US), but couldn't import it.

Companies are generally free to determine the cost/benefit tradeoff of selling in a particular market. The alternative would be a gigantic bureaucracy to regulate where every product made by every company in the US could be sold, and maintain this for the entire ever-changing US product line.

Click to expand...

that all makes sense. But lights aren't cars. There arent different regulations on lights liek there are in auto mobiles. the 959 AFAIK was not street legal in the US due to its smog or crash testing(bumper height, etc). The difference I'm referring to is not revolutionary, just colors, a differnet front end, and a specially made product that I don't see why American wouldn't want.

unless, of course, their existence also serves to help the customers in Asia to feel special for having something that even Americans can't buy...given the sought-afterness of HA BK stuff and special editions in America...

or am I seeking the master plan again?

Re: Surefire is getting me confused

LEDcandle said:

Btw, is it their lighting or does the M6 and M3 look like Black HA III?
If so, you can add another 2 'rare' items on your initial list

Click to expand...

probably just the lighting...

then again if they ever were we Americans would never buy them, judging from the availvility of A2 and E1e colors in the US...

just check out the E1e BK, E2e SG, D3, and the BEast that is apparently still available there...

I don't know Korean but with all the USA's next to the pics, I'm guessing they say they are made in the USA...