what would you have done?

1.This last Saturday night me and two of my friends were on our way to see another friend at her dorm. When we were about 3 minutes from the campus we passed under a railroad track. From the passenger window I saw a car on the railroad tracks. I immediately told my friends and recommended that we call 911. I handed my phone to one of them and he called 911. While he was dialing my other friend did a U-Turn and pulled up on a service road that is perpendicular, but does not go all of the way to the tracks (there is a TXU substation between the two). The 911 operator recommended that one of us get out and check on the driver. I grabbed my Propoly 4AA lux and started heading towards the car. It was about a 30 yard walk around the substation to the tracks. I turned on my light as soon as I started walking so the driver of the car would know that I was approaching (So if he was doing something illegal, he would drive off instead of me accidentally scaring him and causing a negative reaction). Once I got close I could tell that the car was not on the tracks, but right next to them. So close in fact that if the train had passed by it very well could have hit the car. The car was on and as I approached, the driver rolled down his window. I asked if there was a problem and he said that he was "Testing the Crew" of the upcoming train, and he proceeded to point at an approaching train (Which, by this time was trying to stop). He seemed very nervous about the whole situation, so I said OK and headed back to our car. This all seemed very strange to me because it was 12:30AM on a Saturday. My friend was still on the phone with the 911 operator, so I told him what happened. The operator told us that there was a squad car on the way and they would take care of it. We got back in our car and started to leave when two squad cars showed up. One pulled up to our car and we told him what happened, he said thanks and drove up. We left the scene and proceeded to the dorm. Once we got there and got out of the car, we heard a loud explosion from far off in the direction of the tracks. So instinctively jumped back in the car and headed to the tracks. The explosion turned out to be a false alarm (there were kids on campus setting off fireworks in the woods). When we got to the tracks, we did not stop, but drove under them once again and saw the man that was in the car with his hands on the hood and getting searched. So something was definantly wrong with the situation. The next morning my friend was recounting the story to his parents who got very upset with us for investigating the matter so closely. So did we do the right thing? Should I have waited for the squad cars to arrive instead of proceeding to the tracks myself? The whole time I felt like I was doing the responsible thing, and following the directions of the 911 operator, but did I put myself at an unnecessary risk? What would you have done?

I can see why your parents got upset, but I think you were fine. Even if the person in the car was a deranged lunatic, the chances of them randomly harming you with a car full of people nearby to see is slim -- not unheard of, but slim.

Instincts are good too, and if you had told the 911 operator that you were uncomfortable checking on the driver, I'm sure they still would have sent the squad cars.

Nice to know that there are decent people out there that want to help others that may need assistance. But caution is in order which I'm sure you did take.

Makes me think about that Luby's Cafe incident some years ago [14 years?]. People in the cafe walked towards the pick-up truck to see if the driver needed some help. Driver was armed and shot up the cafe killing some 23 people and injuring 20 others. . .

I'll also add that from what I know of railroad operations that they would never "test the crew" in the manner you describe. As it is I've heard the majority of locomotive engineers will run into a vehicle at a grade crossing at some time in their career so no need for management to purposely put them in that situation. Also, what exactly would they be testing the crew on? All the locomotive engineer is required to do if a car is blocking the tracks is lay on the horn. They're not even required to attempt to stop unless they can safely do so. Far better to hit a car than to throw a 100-car freight train into emergency and derail a couple of dozen tankers of hazardous material, for example, or possibly injure passengers if it's a passenger train. Anyway, I'm glad this turned out alright.

My guess is either this person was mentally ill, or attempting suicide. Either way, calling 911 was the smart thing to do.

Our intuition is a wonderful tool or guide to have in our daily lives. One of its many forms comes up often in our defensive awareness/"proximity sense" which serves as an early warning device evaluating potential dangers. It's always "ON" 24/7 though we may not be coscious of it.

There is a two-fold problem sometimes though; a) we may not be mindful of the relatively "small" and seemingly unrelated signals it sends us. You know stuff like nagging feelings, hunches, hesitation, out-of-the-blue remarks, etc. and b) we may not INTERPRET these signals properly or at the appropriate time. This manifests sometimes when after an incident or something happens, we suddenly have an instantaneous clear thought that "Hey, now I know why I felt that way before. . ." or "No wonder I had this feeling of. . .".

From your vantage point some distance off you said "From the passenger window I saw a car on the railroad tracks. I immediately told my friends and recommended that we call 911". Why did you do this? You could have just left this sight alone, gone straight to your friend and none would have been the wiser.

Then, you got out to investigate: " I grabbed my Propoly 4AA lux and started heading towards the car. . . I turned on my light as soon as I started walking so the driver of the car would know that I was approaching (So if he was doing something illegal, he would drive off instead of me accidentally scaring him and causing a negative reaction)". Again, you could have just marched up enthusiastically like a Boy Scout at the ready to help, buy you didn't right? What kept you from doing so? His "Testing the crew" (what the heck kind of testing is that?!?) statement, his vehicle parked from such a precarious position, his nervous demeanor and the strange feeling you got as to why they were doing it at 12:30 AM all just confirm something was amiss.

It seems to me you did manage to allow your intuition to flash these signals but its in the second problem, the actual interpretation of these signals where you might've missed. As someone mentioned, you could have just told the 911 operator that you might be uncertain of the driver/situation and just let the officers on site deal with it.

On the whole, you did OK, because you managed to undergo the incident without harm or damage to yourself or anyone (like the supposedly old pilot's saying that "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one" applies to the street as well). We may call this plain and simple luck. You might have been unlucky if it may indeed be some deranged lunatic with a weapon intent on harm or suicidal (those determined kill themselves can be quite desperate).

Once I saw them OFF the track and beside it I would have turned around and let the police handle it.

wwglen

i would've probably done the same thing. Just be careful out there.

Hi all, this is my first post and my first day as a member. Glad to be here!
Mccavazos, your story reminds me of something that happened to me and a friend a few years ago. On the way back from a funeral, we were taking the backroads home, and after going through a big turn, a van came barreling up the hill in the other direction. I watched in the rearview mirror, and saw it go up the side of the enbankment, and then it went out of sight. I assumed it flipped, since it was a steep enbankment, and they were just flying.
I tryed to call someone on my mobile 2meter to call 911 but got no responce on the local repeater, and I turned around to check on the van. It was parked in a field about 100ft down the road, with 2 older guys standing sheepingly next to it. I asked them if they were alright and if they needed a lift. They were a bit weirded out by two 20-somethings in suits coming to the rescue, but accpeted the ride.
As soon as they got in, I realised they were drunk. They were coming from a bar in one town, and on their way to another bar in the next town.

This little fact pissed me off, but I took them out of my way strictly for the karma. Just call me the Parton Saint of Drunk Drivers.
In retrospect, I still wonder if it all was the right thing to do.

I would never recommend someone approaching the car as you did but given the same situation and circumstances I would have done the same as you did, good job!!

mccavazos said:

1.This last Saturday night me and two of my friends were on our way to see another friend at her dorm.

Click to expand...

You did fine. If you were my son I would have chewed you out for being too reckless too.

One thing I've learned is that –on the spot- judgement is very hard. It's always easy to dissect your actions later and see how right or wrong you may have been about certain actions. I've seen fully trained officers (myself included!) make some really scary-bad judgement calls so it doesn't surprise me when someone who is untrained does so as well.

I'm not going to sugar-coat my responses, BUT please don't think I'm trying to beat you down. My intent, in this response, is to give you (and others who read this) a few tips that will, hopefully, help everyone to be alert and safe.

Also I'm certainly not the last authority on this matter so feel free to take what I say with a "grain of salt".

If I'm already being too wordy for you, feel free to jump down to "what I would have done" at the bottom
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>>we passed under a railroad track. From the passenger window I saw a car on the railroad tracks. I immediately told my friends and recommended that we call 911.<<

A good call. The 911 dispatcher can contact a lot more sources than you can (train dispatchers, fire and rescue, and so forth). And if (God forbid) something else did happen there would be a record of the call (time, location, etc) which will help any investigations immensely. As an LEO I was constantly telling to call even if they weren't sure. If it was nothing and we responded –no harm, no foul- but if it was something and they didn't call then someone could die.

>>The 911 operator recommended that one of us get out and check on the driver.<<

That 911 operator is probably going to get a bit of a lecture from his/her supervisor at the next review. They are NEVER supposed to advise that an unknown civilian go into a possibly dangerous situation. What he/she is supposed to tell you is to observe what you can from a safe distance (car make/model, license plate, appearance of the driver, etc).

>>I grabbed my Propoly 4AA lux and started heading towards the car. It was about a 30 yard walk around the substation to the tracks. I turned on my light as soon as I started walking so the driver of the car would know that I was approaching (So if he was doing something illegal, he would drive off instead of me accidentally scaring him and causing a negative reaction).<<

So "something" made you think that it might be a bad idea to approach the vehicle. This is one of the things that they beat on a LOT in police training… If a situation feels "bad" then trust your feelings! Life isn't a video game, you get one shot and there is no "reset button". Don't take chances!
Here is where you probably should have just pulled back and waited for backup to arrive. It's great that you wanted to investigate/help but this is where you were putting yourself in harms way.

>>Once I got close I could tell that the car was not on the tracks, but right next to them. So close in fact that if the train had passed by it very well could have hit the car. The car was on and as I approached, the driver rolled down his window. I asked if there was a problem and he said that he was "Testing the Crew" of the upcoming train, and he proceeded to point at an approaching train (Which, by this time was trying to stop). He seemed very nervous about the whole situation, so I said OK and headed back to our car.<<

As I said above, this confrontation should never have taken place. Fortunately you were not drawn into any worse situation or injured.

>>This all seemed very strange to me because it was 12:30AM on a Saturday. My friend was still on the phone with the 911 operator, so I told him what happened. The operator told us that there was a squad car on the way and they would take care of it. We got back in our car and started to leave when two squad cars showed up. One pulled up to our car and we told him what happened, he said thanks and drove up. We left the scene and proceeded to the dorm.<<

Good. Once you have given all the information you have to the police, it's usually a good idea to then remove yourself from the scene. You are safer and the police aren't partially distracted worrying about you.

>>Once we got there and got out of the car, we heard a loud explosion from far off in the direction of the tracks. So instinctively jumped back in the car and headed to the tracks.<<

Woah, you heard an explosion and went back?!? Probably not the best of choices overall. Given my personality I understand giving in to curiousity but that still doesn't make it a good choice <grin>.

>> (snip) So did we do the right thing? <<
In terms of alerting the authorities…absolutely.

>>Should I have waited for the squad cars to arrive instead of proceeding to the tracks myself?<<
You should NOT have approached that vehicle. But since you did I'm very glad you are okay.

>>The whole time I felt like I was doing the responsible thing, and following the directions of the 911 operator, but did I put myself at an unnecessary risk?<<

1) That 911 operator needs a refresher course.
2) The responsible thing starts with making sure you don't become part of the problem (by putting yourself in harms way).
3) Yes you put yourself in unnecessary risk.

Summary/What I would have done….

Had I noticed the situation, I would have called 911 and reported it. I would then have tried to observe the vehicle and occupant(s) if I was able to do so from a safe location and would have relayed my observations to the 911 operator (any descriptons of the vehicle, occupant(s) and their actions). When the authorities arrived I would have also relayed any information to them, along with my contact information, and then I would have left the scene. Because I'm nosy I might have pulled way back and continued to watch, or have driven by later (not really a wise choice, but it's honestly what I would have done) EXCEPT for the explosion thing which would have kept me away.

I forgot to add that when we left the dorm and about 1:30 and haeaded that direction again (its the way home) there was nothing on the scene the car was gone along with the squad cars. I'm not sure what this means.

Thanks for all of the replys, its good to hear from a real LEO. The main reason that we headed back to the scene was to check on the well being of the officers. In retrospect it seems very counterintutive, but I just couldn't help myself. If somthing bad had happened, precious seconds count and I would have liked to have done what I can. When we drove by the second time, we never got out of the car and were on the other side of the street(It is seperated by a median). Now I couldn't say what I would have done if the car was on fire or the officers had been shot, but it just felt like the thing to do. I appreciate the responses and I think that I have a better understanding of how to handle these situation in the future. One day I hope to be an LEO myself, but I guess that I had better wait until then to put myself in these kind of situations.

Thanks again,
Chris

Chris, if you're thinking about becoming a LEO, inquire at your local PD. Some have Citizen's Police Academies, and other programs to get some basic exposure to what police officers do. There are also other ways of being involved.

Good advice from the greenLED.

Please be more careful and don't take a risk like that again. You were very brave and quite foolish, what you did might have been safer to do 20 years ago, is not too safe these days. You do not get paid to put your life on the line. You do have a good sense and want to help people. I hate to think what would have happened if the person in the car was unstable and had a gun.

Going back to check on the car was the right thing to do. Calling 911 was the right thing to do. Getting situational awareness (how close the car was to the tracks) was the right thing to do. Getting closer than 30 feet to the driver was dangerous. (most handguns are not accurate at 30 feet, most of the time).

A couple of years ago I was driving at 1:00am down a long, dark country road with light traffic. There was a young woman in the road screaming at cars to stop and help her as she had been raped. I passes her turned my car around, put the green strobe on the roof, called 911 and then stopped with her in my headlights. I told her to stay in the light of my headlight and NOT approch my car, I also toild her I was an EMS Instructor and would help her as soon as the State Police arrived. It killed me to wait, but it could have really killed me to respond to her without the Police there. Her buddies hiding in the woods or the gun/knife in her purse were real possibilities. It took a long, very long three minutes for the Police to arrive, I checked her out, called for the ambulance and later check on her at the hospital.

Do not become another victim!
Do not stop careing for your fellow human beings.

zespectre said:

One thing I've learned is that –on the spot- judgement is very hard. It's always easy to dissect your actions later and see how right or wrong you may have been about certain actions. I've seen fully trained officers (myself included!) make some really scary-bad judgement calls so it doesn't surprise me when someone who is untrained does so as well. . .

>>The 911 operator recommended that one of us get out and check on the driver.<<

That 911 operator is probably going to get a bit of a lecture from his/her supervisor at the next review. They are NEVER supposed to advise that an unknown civilian go into a possibly dangerous situation. What he/she is supposed to tell you is to observe what you can from a safe distance (car make/model, license plate, appearance of the driver, etc). . . .

1) That 911 operator needs a refresher course.
2) The responsible thing starts with making sure you don't become part of the problem (by putting yourself in harms way).
3) Yes you put yourself in unnecessary risk.

Click to expand...

Superbly put, Officer Zespecter!

Thank you. Just a quick FYI, -former- LEO ZeSpectre. I left the force a number of years ago (though it really sticks in the blood darn it).

Your parent's reaction was understandable. To the ears of a parent, this story sounds like "my precious child was out at an ungodly hour messing around with a possibly very dangerous situation for no better reason than to help out some crack head who was more likely to shoot him than to thank him."

Whereas for you it sounded like "I noticed someone in danger and tried to help out."

And to the crack head it sounded like "I was minding my own business and some jerkwad came along and got me in trouble with the police. I wish I could have 5 minutes alone with him."

I won't criticize you for trying to help, but I will say that the parent's version of the story is probably closer to reality.

It also helps to know how parents hear things so you know what to share with them in the future and how to share it.

For better or worse, here's what your parents are thinking of:



Dear Mama Mcavasos - we regret to inform you that your son approached a suspicious car alongside the railroad tracks shortly after Midnight on Saturday in an attempt to offer assistance, and was:

assaulted by the four drug dealers inside, and is now in the ICU at the local hospital

attacked by the two drunken women in the car, and now requires plastic surgery to reattach his man-parts

killed by the naked man in the car, who had recently escaped from officers across town

Run over by the female driver, engaged in an argument with her husband, and will soon be walking well on his artificial legs

injured in an attempt to pull a suicidal individual from the vehicle, when the oncoming train smashed the car

Etc....


A trained, armed officer would approach a running car alongside the tracks with substantial caution (I'd hope). The problem with doing so yourself is that you don't have any resources to handle what comes next - not to assist an injured individual, resist an assault, to call for help, etc...

best to leave the hinky situations to someone with a bunch of gear strapped to their waist, and the training and resources to handle the situation.

It's a little different if there's someone in immediate, obvious distress or danger... but there's almost never a reason to add yourself to the list of people in immediate danger.

I really do prefer to help people, but sadly, there's just a whole bunch of things that I'm not equipped to handle, and it's harder than heck to tell if I'm facing one when I drive by.