Surefire C2 Upgrades?

antikythera

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I just bought a C2 from the LA Police Gear sale (crazy prices, by the way), and now it's upgrade time! :devil:

So... what do I do? I'd like a 3-mode (LMH) high-output LED dropin, and I don't know if I need to do anything with the tailcap. I'll be running it on a AW17670s, charged on a Pila.

I've heard good things about the Nailbenders, but I can't find output or UI details. Some help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Antikythera
 

SixM

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I did the same, just received the C2 and a 6P yesterday. One will probably get a Malkoff, something warm, and the other some type of XM-L dropin. Still mulling over my options. :)
 

Cypher_Aod

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I just bought a C2 from the LA Police Gear sale (crazy prices, by the way), and now it's upgrade time! :devil:

So... what do I do? I'd like a 3-mode (LMH) high-output LED dropin, and I don't know if I need to do anything with the tailcap. I'll be running it on a AW17670s, charged on a Pila.

I've heard good things about the Nailbenders, but I can't find output or UI details. Some help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Antikythera

My C2 is totally stock other than a AW 17670 and a Nailbender XP-G dropin. No other mods required for a perfect torch ^_^
 

Viper715

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My suggestions depending on your budget are as follows.

1. Nailbender either a warm XML or a HCRI XPG his three modes cycle low medium high with memory

2. Get it bored for 18650 for sure.

3. McClicky kit from Oveready

4. UCL lens

Oh yeah and get an LX2 clip makes it much easier to pocket carry.

Now if you have a higher budget.

5. Oveready triple

6. Oveready zero Rez

7. Cryos cooling bezel
 

kramer5150

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Malkoff (or nailbender, depending on your preferences)
17670 (or have it bored out for 18650)
UCL lens (will get you an extra ~10% in output, which on paper looks like a lot but in the real wold isn't much)
Copper tape

Rock solid setup
I have the over-ready zero resistance tailcap mod and like it. I'm not running anything high enough current to matter, its just added peace of mind knowing I am doing everything I can to make an already great light greater.
 
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precisionworks

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Viper715 and kramer5150 are spot on.

If you can live with "only" 260 lumens OTF, the Malkoff M61 is a lot of bang for not much money - currently $64.95 at Battery Junction, and use Coupon Code CPF2011 to get 5% off the order (pretty much pays for the shipping). That's where mine came from, for my C2.

You can power that drop in with an AW17670, but the 17670 is rated for only 1600 mAh. Going to the AW18650 gets a battery almost identical in size (1mm larger in diameter) but capacity is nearly doubled at 2900 mAh.

If you want 1100 lumens, the TorchLAB Triple XPG is the least costly way to go. There are currently two on The Marketplace, both priced at $120 (new retail is $165). Absolutely need the 18650 for this drop in or anything larger.

I love the McClicky switch, but you need to determine if that's what you want on your C2. Mine has the standard SF push button, which is perfect for home defense.

The C2 is one of SF's best lights, and one of my favorites. Lots of punch (with a drop in) in a small package.
 

antikythera

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Thanks for all the responses so far!

I think that if I decide to go the boring route for the 18650, I'll do that at a later date.

Questions:
How would I install the McClicky kit?

I was under the impression the UCL lens was less durable than the stock glass lens. Is this true?

The copper tape is for heatsinking, right? How useful is that in real-world useage (as in brightness, runtime, etc.)?

Is the M61 the "throwy" one?

What would my output be (approximately) for the different levels for the Nailbender XM-L dropin?

I'd like to keep the mod cost (for now) less than $100 total. I'll add more things as time goes on.


Thanks again!
 

shane45_1911

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Questions:
How would I install the McClicky kit?
Quite simple. Instructions can be found at www.oveready.comhttp://www.Oveready.com

I was under the impression the UCL lens was less durable than the stock glass lens. Is this true?
Stock lens is Pyrex, not glass. UCL is only marginally less durable, but the trade off is worth it for 10 percent more light transmissivity. (IMO)

The copper tape is for heatsinking, right? How useful is that in real-world useage (as in brightness, runtime, etc.)?
Very useful, provides LED longevity gains by not allowing the LED to overheat. Also helps in maintaining optimal brightness longer.

Is the M61 the "throwy" one?
No. M60 is the throwy one. Although the M61 is no slouch, but it simply has more spill.

What would my output be (approximately) for the different levels for the Nailbender XM-L dropin?
Check with Dave (Nailbender) or search the forum. :)
 
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Cypher_Aod

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The M61 is not especially throwy, that's the original M60 with it's XR-E and TIR optic. the M61's throw is apparently perfectly sufficient.

with a high-powered dropin that's used for prolonged periods of time (more than about a minute), copper-tape shimming is essential. the modules produce considerable amounts of heat and the module-body interface is insufficient to sink that heat on its own, resulting in overheating the module which is detrimental to the electronics and the LED as well as efficiency.
 

damn_hammer

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i recently picked up my first c2, and put a nailbender 3-mode xm-l neutral in it. the dropin comes with copper tape which you wrap around the dropin base a couple of time to provide a path for heat to excape to the bezel/head, and to provide electrical continuity (the spring is not needed). also added a surefire fm-34 beam diffuser which turns the incredibly bright output into a smooth wall of light. next upgrade on the list for me is the mcclicky switch. the only negative for me regarding the dropin is that is has memory. some prefer memory, but not me. i would rather it have the light come on at the same level each time ... no guessing. while i have several malkoff dropins, the amount of choices in emitters, levels, tints available, quality, and price nailbender provides make his a better value i think.
 

kramer5150

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Thanks for all the responses so far!
Sure np

I think that if I decide to go the boring route for the 18650, I'll do that at a later date.
Wise decision, its can be an expensive service. One nice thing about this mod is it leaves a little shoulder around the +B area, that prevents the 18650 cell from slamming into the back side of the drop in on a HARD fall.

Questions:
How would I install the McClicky kit?
Its a brass screw in module with a rubber boot. Theres a procedure somewhere on CPF... I can't remember where. Hard part is getting the Z41 gutts out. You need needle nose pliers to pull the spring and metal plunger part out... just give it a firm yank and it will pop out. I am not sure if you need to unscrew the plastic boot retainer, but I think you do. I used a penny+pliers and unscrewed it.

You should be aware that a McClicky upgrade is a step up in ergonomics but its a step down in durability. On a HARD fall an 18650 cell will slam into the switch, and can crack the switch body. A 17670 cell is lighter though so it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

Heres what Ll the gutts look like
dscn2388.jpg

dscn2457.jpg


I was under the impression the UCL lens was less durable than the stock glass lens. Is this true?
The coating is slightly more susceptible to scratches, from what I understand. But I have never seen anything based in factual data to validate this.

The copper tape is for heatsinking, right? How useful is that in real-world useage (as in brightness, runtime, etc.)?
Correct, it creates a thermal path for heat to escape from the module to the body of the light. Thats a good question, it largely depends on the module. If the module direct drives the LED, or pushes it hard then it will be more critical. For lower current applications its not so critical. I use it on my M60s and they have been bomb-proof... and my lights are users. I turn them on and leave them ON for hours working in the garage, under the sink, camping...etc. The whole light warms up and carries heat away from the LED.

Is the M61 the "throwy" one?
From the samples I have seen, the M61 has more flood than throw compared to the original Khatod optic M60.... but I have been away from CPF for 7-8 months. Things could have changed.

What would my output be (approximately) for the different levels for the Nailbender XM-L dropin?

I'd like to keep the mod cost (for now) less than $100 total. I'll add more things as time goes on.
Good setup... Malkoff, copper tape, 17670 cells.


Thanks again!
 
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PKFan

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Great and timely thread. I'm expecting my first SF, a C2 HA from LAPG (sorry, couldn't fit any more acronyms in there). Likely a P61 in my future.
 

PKFan

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There are so many better (more efficient, brighter, etc.) drop-ins available for your new toy, IMHO. Search this forum for P60 drop-ins, specifically Malkoff and Nailbender offerings. :)

Your journey is just beginning...

Doh! I meant "M"61, not "P"61. Thanks for the pointer nonetheless!
 

antikythera

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So does the copper tape come with the drop-ins?

And what would be the pros/cons of the Nailbenders vs. the Malkoffs?

The reason I asked about the "throwiness" of the M61 is because I prefer a floodier beam. I EDC an HDS 140E, and bought a G2X Pro for my parents -- which I, of course, "field-tested" for them :p -- so I'm pretty sure I like, at the most, an even split between spill and throw.

Also, thanks for all the pics kramer5150!
 

shao.fu.tzer

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Nothing wrong with a good incan setup. I use a G2 and an M2 for incan stuff.

Agreed... I keep a similar setup (the G2) as a dedicated incan light... I rarely use it though except for when I get nostalgic...
Plus, Surefire bulbs are super inexpensive these days if you look in the right spots. :D

As for upgrading...

With a $100 budget, boring it may not be the best first upgrade. I know I may catch some flak on this one... While true that you'll get longer runtimes, unless you buy a $100+ triple or something, it's usually really going to matter that much - boring could eat up a good portion of your budget and/or take some time (and who wants their brand new toy to be out of action for any period of time). To make the most of your $100 budget without having to ship your body off, you should buy a Manafont or Solarforce (the 6V max one so you can use primaries) XM-L drop in depending on whether you prefer 1 or 3 modes($16-$20), some copper tape to wrap it in ($3), a UCL lens ($5 if you look around), a McClicky switch upgrade kit(~$25), 2 AW protected 17670s (~$22), bezel ring upgrade ($18-25+) - and there's your $100! Then later, if you decide to bore, you could always buy a G2 body from the Marketplace to use as an interim while the original is MIA. :D
 

antikythera

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With a $100 budget, boring it may not be the best first upgrade. I know I may catch some flak on this one... While true that you'll get longer runtimes, unless you buy a $100+ triple or something, it's usually really going to matter that much - boring could eat up a good portion of your budget and/or take some time (and who wants their brand new toy to be out of action for any period of time). To make the most of your $100 budget without having to ship your body off, you should buy a Manafont or Solarforce (the 6V max one so you can use primaries) XM-L drop in depending on whether you prefer 1 or 3 modes($16-$20), some copper tape to wrap it in ($3), a UCL lens ($5 if you look around), a McClicky switch upgrade kit(~$25), 2 AW protected 17670s (~$22), bezel ring upgrade ($18-25+) - and there's your $100! Then later, if you decide to bore, you could always buy a G2 body from the Marketplace to use as an interim while the original is MIA. :D

Why do you suggest Manafonts or Solarforces vs. Malkoffs or Nailbenders? Aside from the price advantage, wouldn't the latter two be of higher quality, with better electronics? Also, isn't the stock C2 bezel ring HAIII Al? Thanks!

Here's the setup I'm considering right now:
Solarforce XM-L = $20 OR Nailbender XM-L = $56
McClicky + orange softpress boot = $23
2 AW Protected 17670s = $22

Total: $65 OR $101
 
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kramer5150

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Why do you suggest Manafonts or Solarforces vs. Malkoffs or Nailbenders? Aside from the price advantage, wouldn't the latter two be of higher quality, with better electronics? Also, isn't the stock C2 bezel ring HAIII Al? Thanks!

Here's the setup I'm considering right now:
Solarforce XM-L = $20 OR Nailbender XM-L = $56
McClicky + orange softpress boot = $23
2 AW Protected 17670s = $22

Total: $65 OR $101

"wouldn't the latter two be of higher quality, with better electronics?"
Generally yes I have found this to be the case. The Malkoff modules have a patented thermal design. I have never seen the actual patent, but I suspect it has a lot to do with why there are no alternatives that try and replicate Genes brass thermal design. Customer service is better too (just thought I'd add).

" Also, isn't the stock C2 bezel ring HAIII Al?"
No its a black plastic of some type, not exactly sure what it is... but it definitely is NOT aluminum.
 

archimedes

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I have been really pleased with the M61HCRI drop-in, and a Malkoff is probably one of the few C2 upgrades that actually increases the durability and reliability of this tough light.

I guess a steel bezel ring would be mostly cosmetic, but may be a bit better than the stock plastic one, as well.
 

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